Shamima Begum

[Merpedy]

Do you favour monitoring of social media for those under suspicion.

They can and do use surveillance to monitor people

I get the sense that people don't realise the amount that governments can do under national security reasoning - the below gives a bit of a run down, there's also a bunch of EU caselaw on this regarding the right to privacy and national security discretion
I think I'm under surveillance - Liberty (libertyhumanrights.org.uk)


I get the impression that spy cops scandal would fall under national security reasoning these days too, though it seems that the words were never used but it's all sort of alluded to
CCJS_SpecBrief1_4Dec18.qxp (crimeandjustice.org.uk)

Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Act 2021 - Wikipedia

which allows undercover law enforcement agents or covert sources to break the law in the interests of national security, the wellbeing of the UK's economy, or in order to detect or prevent crime. CCAs must only be used to prevent more serious crimes being committed and when there is no practicable legal path by which the same outcome could be achieved

 

[Polythene Pam]

Australia managed it.
Teenagers flying to Turkey is a fairly obvious red flag. They absolutely should have been stopped.

Teen Sydney brothers suspected of trying to join Islamic State

Two teenage brothers intercepted by authorities at Sydney Airport are suspected of trying to travel to Syria to join Islamic State fighters.

www.abc.net.au

 

[monga]

Maybe she would’ve cited article 8

 

[Moth]

The Police are one of the agencies involved in the Prevent strategy which aims to deter radicalisation of vulnerable people. In schools the police are part of the multi-agency approach to safeguarding along with the school, the local authority and other agencies. The Prevent strategy initiates escalating action based on the assessed risk to the individual e.g through the 'Channel' process

In the specific case of Shamima Begum it would have helped if the police had correctly assessed the risk that she and her two friends might try to travel to Syria. Even after her friend Sharmeena had left the country and the police had spoken to Shamima they decided that she was not at risk. SIAC say that conclusion might be described as 'somewhat myopic'.

It would also have helped if the school, which did not agree with the police assessment of the risk to Shamima had not allowed themselves to be at least partially overruled by it.

The failure of the police to correctly assess the risk to Shamima and of the school to fully act on its own perception of the risk probably prevented the case being escalated and appropriate action being taken.

Finally as has been said previously the obtuse decision of the police to try to communicate with the pupil's parents by handing letters to the pupils themselves almost certainly caused them to leave the UK earlier than planned.

 

[monga]

Australia managed it.
Teenagers flying to Turkey is a fairly obvious red flag. They absolutely should have been stopped.

Teen Sydney brothers suspected of trying to join Islamic State

Two teenage brothers intercepted by authorities at Sydney Airport are suspected of trying to travel to Syria to join Islamic State fighters.

www.abc.net.au

Maybe this might’ve been the reason they were arrested

 

[Emsie]

How would they know they were at the airport unless they had them under surveillance? Do you favour monitoring of social media for those under suspicion.

Chilling.

I understand that her internet usage was already being monitored. I do favour monitoring on social media as it happens. I adore it when they catch child abusers by monitoring their Facebook activity. It's my favourite when they monitor suspected terrorists.

 

[Salted Caramel]

Sharmeena Begum travelled on her grandmother's passport.

I thought it was her sisters, but either way, this is part of my point. The checks at the airport were totally unacceptable.

 

[Polythene Pam]

Maybe this might’ve been the reason they were arrested

I'm pretty sure the fact they were travelling to Turkey raised a red flag and THEN they were searched.
Australia took the job pretty seriously.

Australian counter-terror police 'stopping 400 per day'

A new airport counter-terror force is stopping more than 400 travellers per day as Australia attempts to crack down on would-be jihadists leaving the country.

www.bbc.co.uk

Australia Clips Wings of 200 Suspected Islamic Militants at Airports

Australian counterterrorism forces have stopped about 200 suspected militant supporters from leaving the country under an operation to block recruiting by Islamic State and other jihadist groups in the Middle East, the government says.

www.wsj.com

---

I thought it was her sisters, but either way, this is part of my point. The checks at the airport were totally unacceptable.

Shamima travelled on her sister's, Sharmeena (the girl that went in December 2014) took her grandmothers as far as I can tell.
It's hard to look it up properly as google throws up Shamima whenever you search Sharmeena!

 

[Yupitsme!!]

.

The fact that being part of a death cult, having multiple of your babies die and talk about it all without emotion makes me believe she's a psychopath. She could also just be severely depressed but the fact of her leaving the UK where she could have had a good career, education, life for ISIS and made that decision without being forced...... I believe she's a psychopath.

Your are describing her now or more recently I assume, not when she was discovered in the camp by the Times journo in 2019? She looked and sounded ill in the original footage.

According to what I've read on the subject, prior to ending up in the camp her family were fleeing Raqqa before it was taken back from Daesh. She was anything but healthy and was malnourished at this point and was about to give birth. When she was 'found' in the camp she was clearly unwell. Just watch the footage. Her baby had pneumonia as well and became unwell during the night. She and the baby were taken to 'the big hospital' where the baby was put on a drip and locked in a room with Begum with a guard outside. The baby then died of a lung infection and Begum was left in the room with the baby until morning came and they could transport her back to the camp and the baby for burial. *

Before anyone starts talking about 'sympathy', that's not the purpose of this post. The last couple of days emotions have understandably run high in this thread, but she's a terrible enough person without anyone having to invent scenarios to make her seem "worse" somehow. The Syrian Democratic Forces confirmed that she had a baby and that her baby had died. Again, from what I've read, she originally only said she wanted to be repatriated so the baby could be treated in a UK hospital. At that point she showed zero remorse.

*Begums words and also in statements made by authorities at the camp.

Also, I really appreciate the posts made by forum members who work in legal issues, it's really interesting reading your take on the news this week, thanks for your input!

That's one baby what about the other two? Again she put herself in that position, she out her baby in that position, nobody else. Only wants back because her band of bad guys disbanded.
She's not coming back, nobody wants her here. If anybody wants her here and her evil ilk then please feel free to take her in, fund her.

 

[Salted Caramel]

Gone down a rabbit hole tonight. My god this makes grim reading

Brides of the Islamic State - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I thought I'd read some time ago that those awful 'terror twins' from Manchester were both dead, but this suggests otherwise.

Also, ISIS Bride Natalie Brecht, repatriated to the UK, "Currently lives in a squat near Heathrow, UK. Arrested in 2020 for taking part in an Extinction Rebellion protest"

Brit 'jihadi bride' and mum-of-nine is back in UK enjoying benefit-funded life

EXCLUSIVE: Mum-of-nine Natalie Bracht, 45, denies leading female Islamic State unit in Syria, and is now claiming Universal credit, living on a canal boat and wants to be a busker

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[Salted Caramel]

That's one baby what about the other two? Again she put herself in that position, she out her baby in that position, nobody else. Only wants back because her band of bad guys disbanded.
She's not coming back, nobody wants her here. If anybody wants her here and her evil ilk then please feel free to take her in, fund her.

The other two were already dead. I'm not sure what your point is tbh.

 

[thegirlscout]

But now all of a sudden people sympathise with her because she is on a PR offensive?

Other women have had their citizenship revoked but there isn’t any mention of them. I do think this PR drive is part of why people have sympathy and I find the focus just on her odd.
No one has any sympathy for Jack Letts - he was a teenager when he left, he has mental health issues and he had his citizenship revoked. He’s going to live in a country he never lived in prior but no one is clamouring at the bit to defend him. Is it because he’s white? Is it because he’s a male? I don’t know.

 

[Tatooine_legend1]

Gone down a rabbit hole tonight. My god this makes grim reading

Brides of the Islamic State - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I thought I'd read some time ago that those awful 'terror twins' from Manchester were both dead, but this suggests otherwise.

Also, ISIS Bride Natalie Brecht, repatriated to the UK, "Currently lives in a squat near Heathrow, UK. Arrested in 2020 for taking part in an Extinction Rebellion protest"

Brit 'jihadi bride' and mum-of-nine is back in UK enjoying benefit-funded life

EXCLUSIVE: Mum-of-nine Natalie Bracht, 45, denies leading female Islamic State unit in Syria, and is now claiming Universal credit, living on a canal boat and wants to be a busker

www.mirror.co.uk

I am sure I read a couple years back that hundreds of ISIS members returned to this country years ago. Not sure how true that is, but if so then all this furore about shamima begum is hard to take too seriously.

 

[Polythene Pam]

Other women have had their citizenship revoked but there isn’t any mention of them. I do think this PR drive is part of why people have sympathy and I find the focus just on her odd.
No one has any sympathy for Jack Letts - he was a teenager when he left, he has mental health issues and he had his citizenship revoked. He’s going to live in a country he never lived in prior but no one is clamouring at the bit to defend him. Is it because he’s white? Is it because he’s a male? I don’t know.

I'm a dual national and I absolutely have sympathy for anyone that has had their British citizenship revoked. It is a two trier system.
It's particularly concerning to think that the current government is of the view that groups like extinction rebellion should be a proscribed organisation. Yes, they are annoying, but are they on the same level as Islamic State?! Hardly.
It's very easy for people to say just don't join a terrorist group but the fact of the matter is Shamima, Jack and many others have been punished and exiled WITHOUT TRIAL. Without any evidence being examined or presented. Unqualified Home Secretaries (currently Suella Braverman, lets not forget) can strip people of their citizenship on a whim. It is scary and should trouble us all.
The government should be taking steps to actually deal with the issue and not just taking the opportunity for political point scoring just because a person has a tenuous link to another country.
---

I am sure I read a couple years back that hundreds of ISIS members returned to this country years ago. Not sure how true that is, but if so then all this furore about shamima begum is hard to take too seriously.

Anyone who isn't a dual national has to come back. Including male jihadi figthers. We just don't hear about it.

 

[Yupitsme!!]

The other two were already dead. I'm not sure what your point is tbh.

The picture of it holding a baby.. Compare it to its now pictures, point made.

 

[Moth]

I am sure I read a couple years back that hundreds of ISIS members returned to this country years ago. Not sure how true that is, but if so then all this furore about shamima begum is hard to take too seriously.

Around 400 are thought to have returned. About 40 have been prosecuted. The vast majority of those who returned are unknown and the government has not given any details about them. The furore about Shamima Begum is because her case has been largely played out in public and with a lot of media attention from the moment she left with her friends to travel to Syria. In some ways that might have helped her gain publicity for her wish to return to the UK but in others she has become totemic for the government who will not want to lose this of all the cases of deprivation of citizenship that have occurred in recent years.

 

[NeverEnough]

Gone down a rabbit hole tonight. My god this makes grim reading

Brides of the Islamic State - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I thought I'd read some time ago that those awful 'terror twins' from Manchester were both dead, but this suggests otherwise.

Also, ISIS Bride Natalie Brecht, repatriated to the UK, "Currently lives in a squat near Heathrow, UK. Arrested in 2020 for taking part in an Extinction Rebellion protest"

Brit 'jihadi bride' and mum-of-nine is back in UK enjoying benefit-funded life

EXCLUSIVE: Mum-of-nine Natalie Bracht, 45, denies leading female Islamic State unit in Syria, and is now claiming Universal credit, living on a canal boat and wants to be a busker

www.mirror.co.uk

LOL. Is Natalie Brecht actually on this thread because she is using the exact same arguments . Rather seems taken with the financial support offered by the British state she so despises as well. Let’s see a mentally unwell middle aged benefit dependant woman who’s life plan seems to be become a busker, who fled due to fear of having her kids placed in care, and who of course seems to immediately cling to the next great woke campaign. And of course speaks in meaningless platitudes, “it made me stronger”. (Strong people don’t live in squats on government handouts, strong people help themselves).

Hopefully it will shine a mirror, but I doubt it.

 

[Salted Caramel]

LOL. Is Natalie Brecht actually on this thread because she is using the exact same arguments . Rather seems taken with the financial support offered by the British state she so despises as well. Let’s see a mentally unwell middle aged benefit dependant woman who’s life plan seems to be become a busker, who fled due to fear of having her kids placed in care, and who of course seems to immediately cling to the next great woke campaign. And of course speaks in meaningless platitudes, “it made me stronger”. (Strong people don’t live in squats on government handouts, strong people help themselves).

Hopefully it will shine a mirror, but I doubt it.

Who are you attacking? No one at all in this thread has "sympathy" for these women. We are allowed to have conversations about them, in the same way people discuss Weinstein, Ted Bundy or The Yorkshire Ripper.

Why is every comment you make so combative? Are you like this in real life? You must be exhausting tbh.

 

[monga]

 

[Merpedy]

He has a legal background so it makes sense that he would be concerned about the way the decision was originally made. It’s been criticised by some on legal Twitter on the same grounds - the Home Secretary at the time announced it to the press before actually doing it or something along those lines