Are you in Northern Ireland?
- Status
New to Tattle Life? Click "Order Thread by Most Liked Posts" button below to get an idea of what the site is about:
Begum was also a dual National a Bangladeshi father and a British mother, therefore the treatment for both was entirely equitable. The situation you refer to was not the case for either Begum or Letts neither of whom were made stateless and therefore the question itself falls under the realms of whataboutery. It answer it anyhow if it’s not possible to revoke nationality then the UK government should act within the law and theoretical parties unknown will have to remain British. Ie the current government policy. However in the same vein there are currently 1000s of British nationals imprisoned overseas and 1000s of foreign nationals imprisoned in the UK, and in all cases I would fully expect them to serve the full sentence they have been convicted of in the country in which they committed the crime. And that does include the death sentence.
Brits executed abroad as killer gran spends 20 years on Death Row
British gran Linda Carty, 63, has incredibly spent over 20 years on death row over in the states - here we take a look at other Brits who have been executed abroad since the practice was outlawed in the UK
If Begum has not been tried because she chose to go and live in an effectively lawless hellhole (rendered lawless by the group she supported) then to be frank that’s her bed, lie on it.
It’s interesting that in previous posts you appear to be arguing simultaneously that this girl was badly let down by the “British government” whom you seem to think are accountable in some way, yet you also believe that the most effective solution is to repatriate Begum into the custody of said organisation which you believe is incompetent. Interesting also that you are very vague on the details of your proposed anti radicalisation legislation and departments. What are we looking at here? Increased internet surveillance? Targeting of “high risk groups” (which ones)? Partnership between the security services and schools to root out wrongthink? Because there are some awfully dark rabbit holes there.
Who's 'they'?That’s the thing they don’t care about public safety, they’d probably set her up as a community peace activist to radicalise the young around her even more
What I find fascinating about debates such as this is the unbreakable certainty amongst liberals that somehow and someway we will be able to “crack the code” of radicalisation and criminality by looking at case studies and saying the right things. I liken them to the alchemists of old, convinced they can create gold from base metals. Take Ted Bundy as an example. I doubt that there will be a single person alive or dead who has been the subject to more case studies, articles, academic papers, documentaries and books. And as most of his crimes happened in the 1970’s, this has been going on for half a century. All this discussion and quests for understanding, yet I doubt 50 years of study have produced anything which has been of use in stopping one single psychopath.
When you are dealing with religious motivated terrorism you aren’t dealing with rational people who can be swayed by argument. A religious person is someone that, by definition, believes that their life in controlled by an invisible being in the sky who dwells in a metaphysical dimension that can, inconveniently, be only accessed after death, and even then only after you follow rules set out in a book which has been argued about, interpretted, and reinterpreted, over centuries or millennia. God doesn’t half like to hedge her bets. Anyone who believes that is in my view utterly beyond reason even if they are completely none violent. I simply can’t think of a less rational belief system that doesn’t stray into the realms of mental illness.
Anyhow a quick reminder of what happens when we believe that a religious fundamentalist can be ”deradicalised”.
en.wikipedia.org
I love the way his solicitor just invented another phrase “re-groomed”. Just a poor little lost piece of driftwood was Khan, radicalise, deradicalised as a success story, and then “re-groomed”. Oh wow this must have been the most mentally weak man who ever lived.
When you are dealing with religious motivated terrorism you aren’t dealing with rational people who can be swayed by argument. A religious person is someone that, by definition, believes that their life in controlled by an invisible being in the sky who dwells in a metaphysical dimension that can, inconveniently, be only accessed after death, and even then only after you follow rules set out in a book which has been argued about, interpretted, and reinterpreted, over centuries or millennia. God doesn’t half like to hedge her bets. Anyone who believes that is in my view utterly beyond reason even if they are completely none violent. I simply can’t think of a less rational belief system that doesn’t stray into the realms of mental illness.
Anyhow a quick reminder of what happens when we believe that a religious fundamentalist can be ”deradicalised”.
Usman Khan (murderer) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I love the way his solicitor just invented another phrase “re-groomed”. Just a poor little lost piece of driftwood was Khan, radicalise, deradicalised as a success story, and then “re-groomed”. Oh wow this must have been the most mentally weak man who ever lived.
I disagree here, even nursery staff are trained in radicalisation as part of their safe guarding training now, so school staff definitely would be.
Attachments
Maybe in certain parts of the country? Not in my part.
I’m in the south east. It’s not optional, in England at least.
“From 1 July 2015 all schools, registered early years childcare providers, and registered later years childcare providers referred to in this advice as ‘childcare providers’) are subject to a duty under section 26 of the Counter-Terrorism and Security Act 2015, in the exercise of their functions, to have “due regard to the need to prevent people from being drawn into terrorism”. This duty is known as the Prevent duty.”
Ironically I live in the most terrorist state of the UK and it’s not a thing here
Unless I’m missing it?
Last edited:
There is strong evidence to suggest Canadian intelligence were involved. The man who got them across the border and set them up with the madafa is a Canadian asset. Again this is in the documentary. I'd recommend it, it's in no way a puff piece for selling Begum to the GBB, it's really interesting and Josh Baker does ask her some hard questions and they show interviews made over a period of time to show how her story changes.
It's on iPlayer here
The Shamima Begum Story: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001j079
The first season of his I'm not a Monster podcast was about a similar case, an American woman called Sam who took her son to join ISIS. Its a heartbreaking listen (not out of sympathy for her, the exact opposite).
I'm Not A Monster Presents... - I'm Not A Monster - Trailer - BBC Sounds
How did an American family end up in the heart of the ISIS caliphate?
www.bbc.co.uk
Last edited:
I agree - it's very balanced and certainly isn't intended to make the case for her to come home. I had more sympathy for her before i watched it.There is strong evidence to suggest Canadian intelligence were involved. The man who got them across the border and set them up with the madafa is a Canadian asset. Again this is in the documentary. I'd recommend it, it's in no way a puff piece for selling Begum to the GBB, it's really interesting and Josh Baker does ask her some hard questions and they show interviews made over a period of time to show how her story changes.
It's on iPlayer here
The Shamima Begum Story: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001j079
The first season of his I'm not a Monster podcast was about a similar case, an American woman called Sam who took her son to join ISIS. Its a heartbreaking listen (not out of sympathy for her, the exact opposite).
I'm Not A Monster Presents... - I'm Not A Monster - Trailer - BBC Sounds
How did an American family end up in the heart of the ISIS caliphate?
I find all the people that were enraged by the BBC covering the topic quite strange really. It is an interesting case and it is topical.
They've revoked her citizenship. I'm not sure if keeping her at arms length protects us as much as having her in jail would
The government of course, you know those that have a duty of care to protect us
I’m south east and nothing in my city
How long would her sentence be? Isn’t she only a terrorist by association? Real terrorists only do about 6 years out in 3 where I’m from.
I teach adults and all we do is a quick online "course" which is basically a quiz that you can go back and answer over and over if you get questions wrong, is it more comprehensive for other teachers? What I saw was just basic common sense questions I didn't learn anything
I don't think Begum was 'let down' by the British Government, I think the British Government have (yet again) let down the British public. It is well documented that counter-terror efforts in the UK have not been implemented properly or adequately. Even the review into the Prevent programme was riddled with contoversary.
My suggestion is that the British government just actually follow up on their approach to counter-terror. They're great at coming up with plans, but the execution is where they fall down. I'm sorry but it's just not acceptable that a person who was known to the authorities was expected to inform her parents of police requests, and was able to board a flight to Turkey unquestioned.
As you may know from my posts elsewhere on Tattle, I am not even British and I'm not based in the UK. I just think that the British people should hold their government accountable for.. well you know, keeping the public safe?
Last edited:
Why should we pay for her if she was to come back here, somewhere she only seems to want to be as her original plan went wrong?
Regardless of her age then, to this day she has never shown remorse. She admits she wasn’t bothered by the beheadings etc.
I would also assume her movements are being monitored. Plus she’s in the news enough, so I doubt she will go missing as long as she is loving the limelight
We are already paying towards her imprisonment in an unsecure camp.
Actually, in the documentary she does express remorse, whether it's the truth or not is another matter.
The bedheadings thing is constantly misreported. She said she never saw a beheading, but she had seen a bin with heads in it. Subtle difference I know, but a difference nonetheless. There's enough mud to sling at her (quite rightly) as it is, things don't need to be made up or exaggerated.
Her movements are monitored in so much as she is imprisoned in said insecure camp.
I never stated she has seen/watched a beheading? But whether I saw a head being cut off or after the act, I would be deeply bothered by this.
Why should people believe her ? There must be some reason why intelligent deem her a threat, hasn’t it been reported that women sympathetic to the cause rear their children on vids of beheadings from they’re old enough to walk, they groom their own children to be martyrs, this is the reality of ISIS one of the most manipulative organisations in the world that this woman whole heartedly threw herself at, the only reason she’s looking to come back is because her husband isn’t around.
The Women of ISIS and the Al-Hol Camp
Women and children in the al-Hol Camp are conducting ISIS operations and perpetuating ISIS's ideology.
Last edited:
- Status