Shamima Begum

[emm]

I think regardless of anything we cannot set the precedent of deporting our citizens to places they have never lived, in the way we never should have in the Windrush thing.

She isn’t a UK citizen. It was removed. And is therefore not “ours”. And this wasn’t a precedent. There have been 464 such cases.

How many people have been stripped of their British citizenship? - Free Movement

At least 464 people have been stripped of their British citizenship since the law allowing it was relaxed 15 years ago, Free Movement analysis shows.

freemovement.org.uk

Whether or not she has ever lived there is frankly irrelevant. She had a choice, Bangladesh or a prison camp, she chose the latter.

Are you concerned about her welfare?
[/QUOTE]
She was born in the UK and has never (apart form syria) never lived elsewhere. As other people have said, we cannot push her on another country. Not to mention if she was in Bangladesh do we not think she would continue to be a.terrorist? Gid knows what she would do hTing the UK/West even more

 

[Polythene Pam]

Bangladesh has said she will face the death penalty if she sets foot into the country, so I suspect that's why she hasn't gone there.

 

[NeverEnough]

Bangladesh has said she will face the death penalty if she sets foot into the country, so I suspect that's why she hasn't gone there.

Hmm. Like I said therefore a cowardly hypocrite. She wasn’t at all squeamish about the death penalty when ISIS where arbitrarily handing out such sentences to aid workers and journalists.
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She isn’t a UK citizen. It was removed. And is therefore not “ours”. And this wasn’t a precedent. There have been 464 such cases.

How many people have been stripped of their British citizenship? - Free Movement

At least 464 people have been stripped of their British citizenship since the law allowing it was relaxed 15 years ago, Free Movement analysis shows.

freemovement.org.uk

Whether or not she has ever lived there is frankly irrelevant. She had a choice, Bangladesh or a prison camp, she chose the latter.

Are you concerned about her welfare?

She was born in the UK and has never (apart form syria) never lived elsewhere. As other people have said, we cannot push her on another country. Not to mention if she was in Bangladesh do we not think she would continue to be a.terrorist? Gid knows what she would do hTing the UK/West even more
[/QUOTE]

”Continue to be a terrorist”. That sounds awfully like you have accepted that she is a threat to the UK. After all you can’t continue to be something if you were never that thing in the first place.

It also seems that you are worried that in order to move to Bangladesh Shamima would have to turn her back on her previous life to move very suddenly to another country to which she has no links, with the intention of building a new life, perhaps under the constant threat of violence.

”Do you get de ja vu?” - Olivia Rodrigo.

 

[Emsie]

It's perfectly possible to accept her as a threat to the UK. Gary bleeping glitter is a threat to children and the correct place for him is a UK prison.
I am not concerned about her welfare as such. I don't imagine watching your babies die is a nice thing, and I don't think it is a just consequence. It concerns me that was born here, radicalised here and now is stateless effectively roaming the world with no one keeping an eye on her whilst she is up to god knows what. I think she should be in the UK, but that thought doesn't come from a place of love!

 

[Polythene Pam]

It's perfectly possible to accept her as a threat to the UK. Gary bleeping glitter is a threat to children and the correct place for him is a UK prison.
I am not concerned about her welfare as such. I don't imagine watching your babies die is a nice thing, and I don't think it is a just consequence. It concerns me that was born here, radicalised here and now is stateless effectively roaming the world with no one keeping an eye on her whilst she is up to god knows what. I think she should be in the UK, but that thought doesn't come from a place of love!

Agree 100%. She was radicalised here in part by a school friend. The police and school were aware and basically did nothing to stop it. It's a British problem really. If she was Jihadi Jane we'd have to take her back.

 

[bunnyboo]

It’s not up to a school to rear a child that’s the parents job, schools have child protection officers but there’s a limit to what they can do, it’s a bit lame to blame the school for something that happens outside of school hours, maybe her parents were part of the radicalisation if her backround is unknown? I was under the belief they were good parents?

I don't think anyone is arguing that the school needs to do a parent's job, but the school/welfare team's handling of this whole situation was a monumental failure - a case study in what NOT to do with young people who at risk of being radicalised. Additionally, where a minor's welfare is concerned (be that risk to themselves, or to others), the state has an obligation to intervene - which again, was ducked up. The Bethnal Green trio were given letters about radicalisation to give to their parents as an act of intervention. What did they think was going to happen? The girls would happily give their parents the letters from the police? I'm glad I'm not living in the UK tbh, the more I hear about these ridiculous blunders and lack of accountability, the more worried I get.

As pointed out above she had dual citizenship at the time, therefore on removal of her British citizenship she would have reverted to purely a Bangladeshi citizen. Not quite sure of the precedent you are introducing that states that the welfare of Bangladeshi citizens is “nothing to do with Bangladesh”. If she is now stateless that is because she chose not renew her Bangladeshi citizenship thus effectively rendering herself into this position. Just another in the long line of stupid decisions that this girl seems capable of making. Guess she struggles to learn.

"Guess she struggles to learn". Funny, I'd say the same thing about the British government. Let's ignore all the events that led up to this. No lessons to take from this, no clear accountability on the other side.. let's just resort to blaming this whole situation on Begum's "stupid decisions".

 

[monga]

I don't think anyone is arguing that the school needs to do a parent's job, but the school/welfare team's handling of this whole situation was a monumental failure - a case study in what NOT to do with young people who at risk of being radicalised. Additionally, where a minor's welfare is concerned (be that risk to themselves, or to others), the state has an obligation to intervene - which again, was ducked up. The Bethnal Green trio were given letters about radicalisation to give to their parents as an act of intervention. What did they think was going to happen? The girls would happily give their parents the letters from the police? I'm glad I'm not living in the UK tbh, the more I hear about these ridiculous blunders and lack of accountability, the more worried I get.



"Guess she struggles to learn". Funny, I'd say the same thing about the British government. Let's ignore all the events that led up to this. No lessons to take from this, no clear accountability on the other side.. let's just resort to blaming this whole situation on Begum's "stupid decisions".

I would have to question how many school child protection officers are trained in radicalisation/ terrorism, I’d imagine very few? only speaking from my own child’s school policy where CPO are only trained in physical, sexual and MH issues, even then it’s only if someone reports a concern or they notice it themselves, they’re only regular teachers that have done an extra course or two on these subjects .

 

[Polythene Pam]

I would have to question how many school child protection officers are trained in radicalisation/ terrorism, I’d imagine very few? only speaking from my own child’s school policy where CPO are only trained in physical, sexual and MH issues, even then it’s only if someone reports a concern or they notice it themselves, they’re only regular teachers that have done an extra course or two on these subjects .

You don't have to be trained on radicalisation to know 3 teenage girls aren't going to give a letter about a police interview to their parents.
I got caught smoking in school and begged to be allowed to take the letter home to my parents to save the school the postage. They laughed at me!
Also I'm not sure where you live but I'd expect a child protection officer in any major city to have some radicalisation training.

 

[emm]

I would have to question how many school child protection officers are trained in radicalisation/ terrorism, I’d imagine very few? only speaking from my own child’s school policy where CPO are only trained in physical, sexual and MH issues, even then it’s only if someone reports a concern or they notice it themselves, they’re only regular teachers that have done an extra course or two on these subjects .

Almost none really from what I have seen, also there is the issue of people not wanting to be seen as racist etc. It is the same as.the issue with the grooming thing in Birmingham, imagine a white teacher approaching a Muslim parent about this? Because of the (as I have already said ) flawed prevent scheme some teachers may have just been reticent to come.forward

 

[monga]

You don't have to be trained on radicalisation to know 3 teenage girls aren't going to give a letter about a police interview to their parents.
I got caught smoking in school and begged to be allowed to take the letter home to my parents to save the school the postage. They laughed at me!
Also I'm not sure where you live but I'd expect a child protection officer in any major city to have some radicalisation training.

Why didn’t the police approach the parents? Surely once the school alert the authorities it’s out of their hands? …I live surrounded by terrorists and no our schools would leave that up to the relevant authorities , it’s a police matter not a school matter.

 

[Miss Perla]

Horrendously sad story, but the difference between this 'wake up call' and Shamima? Oh, Shamima's brown with parents born abroad. If Rhianan had actually managed anything, would people have said her citizenship should be removed? Doubt it.

Schoolgirl’s online terror grooming a ‘wake-up call’, experts say

A charity revealed they worked with a nine-year-old boy influenced via video games

www.standard.co.uk

100% I would have said leave her there to rot. I don't care what colour anyone is. I care about the way people choose to live. We don't know what Shamima was up to over there. She lived with the Egyptian Isis bigshot for 7 month and claims she didn't know his or his wife's name.....bull!

 

[Emsie]

Almost none really from what I have seen, also there is the issue of people not wanting to be seen as racist etc. It is the same as.the issue with the grooming thing in Birmingham, imagine a white teacher approaching a Muslim parent about this? Because of the (as I have already said ) flawed prevent scheme some teachers may have just been reticent to come.forward

It's very easy to not be racist when talking about radicalisation. You just have not be racist. It's fine for a white person who has adequate training and knows what they are talking about to approach Muslim parents.

 

[Salted Caramel]

Why didn’t the police approach the parents? Surely once the school alert the authorities it’s out of their hands? …I live surrounded by terrorists and no our schools would leave that up to the relevant authorities , it’s a police matter not a school matter.

That was brought up in the documentary. I think the police admitted that that had been "a mistake".

 

[bunnyboo]

100% I would have said leave her there to rot. I don't care what colour anyone is. I care about the way people choose to live. We don't know what Shamima was up to over there. She lived with the Egyptian Isis bigshot for 7 month and claims she didn't know his or his wife's name.....bull!

I'm confused by your answer, as you bypassed the question of what to do with homegrown terrorists who stay in the UK?

And to those of you still perusing the simplistic narrative that Begum was 100% accountable for her own actions (despite repeated failures to act from the British government), are you not scared or worried about these failures? Maybe it's a grim think to say out loud but duck it... at least Begum left the UK to join a terrorist organisation that took thousands of innocent lives. If we focus all of our attention on Begum as an individual and not demand answers from the British authorities, who's to say what could happen next? What would you do with a white, ethnically British individual who committed a horrendous act of terror that took the lives of thousands? And I'm talking about a person born to white British parents... you can't ship them off somewhere and strip them of British citizenship. Who's accountable there? What happens in that case? And yes, it's terrifying to think that this could happen but until counter-terror police & social services outline how they are going to improve their services then we are forced to think about these horrific scenarios.

 

[NeverEnough]

I'm confused by your answer, as you bypassed the question of what to do with homegrown terrorists who stay in the UK?

And to those of you still perusing the simplistic narrative that Begum was 100% accountable for her own actions (despite repeated failures to act from the British government), are you not scared or worried about these failures? Maybe it's a grim think to say out loud but duck it... at least Begum left the UK to join a terrorist organisation that took thousands of innocent lives. If we focus all of our attention on Begum as an individual and not demand answers from the British authorities, who's to say what could happen next? What would you do with a white, ethnically British individual who committed a horrendous act of terror that took the lives of thousands? And I'm talking about a person born to white British parents... you can't ship them off somewhere and strip them of British citizenship. Who's accountable there? What happens in that case? And yes, it's terrifying to think that this could happen but until counter-terror police & social services outline how they are going to improve their services then we are forced to think about these horrific scenarios.

There was a white British terrorist who was stripped of his citizenship and shipped off elsewhere. I.e. treated exactly the same a Begum. That was Jack Letts, please see numerous posts above. I see absolutely no difference at all in the treatment of the two.

However it is gratifying that after 30 pages we finally get to the race card being played, aka the Sturgeon Strategem.

I would point out of course that in this case the supporter of the extreme right hate and supremicist organisation is Shamima Begum.

 

[bunnyboo]

There was a white British terrorist who was stripped of his citizenship and shipped off elsewhere. I.e. treated exactly the same a Begum. That was Jack Letts, please see numerous posts above. I see absolutely no difference at all in the treatment of the two.

However it is gratifying that after 30 pages we finally get to the race card being played, aka the Sturgeon Strategem.

I would point out of course that in this case the supporter of the extreme right hate and supremicist organisation is Shamima Begum.

If you are familiar with the Jack Letts case, then you would know that he was born to a Canadian father and British mother. He is a dual-national. In my original question, I am asked what would you propose happen to a person born to British parents with NO connection or claim to another nationality. Where are they going to be shipped off too? Would they be made stateless?

 

[Salted Caramel]

 

[monga]

That was brought up in the documentary. I think the police admitted that that had been "a mistake".

I haven’t watched it tbf. Usually British intelligence would use the likes of Begum as informers , by not jumping at that tells me they know she’s not a reformed character and there’s more to her wanting to return .I find it really odd that she’s not been assassinated for her sudden turnaround and western dress, yet she’s courting the media and completely unnerved
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If you are familiar with the Jack Letts case, then you would know that he was born to a Canadian father and British mother. He is a dual-national. In my original question, I am asked what would you propose happen to a person born to British parents with NO connection or claim to another nationality. Where are they going to be shipped off too? Would they be made stateless?

I think it’s illegal to make them stateless if they have no other nationality.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

If you are familiar with the Jack Letts case, then you would know that he was born to a Canadian father and British mother. He is a dual-national. In my original question, I am asked what would you propose happen to a person born to British parents with NO connection or claim to another nationality. Where are they going to be shipped off too? Would they be made stateless?

I certainly wouldn’t give two people if these people are made stateless or beheaded in whichever country they find themselves.

@monga made a good point in that there is seriously something off about her. And the fact that the intelligence services of ANY country don’t want to touch her certainly makes me worry.
Tbh I don’t even care if these people can be reformed. They need to deal with the consequences if their actions.

 

[bunnyboo]

I certainly wouldn’t give two people if these people are made stateless or beheaded in whichever country they find themselves.

@monga made a good point in that there is seriously something off about her. And the fact that the intelligence services of ANY country don’t want to touch her certainly makes me worry.
Tbh I don’t even care if these people can be reformed. They need to deal with the consequences if their actions.

Although we disagreed on a few things, I do agree with you on that I feel like some of these people are past the point of being reformed. Hence my interest in wanted to intervene early and prevent radicalisation effectively.

The only people I feel complete sympathy for here are the babies and young children stuck in Al-Hol with their mothers. They didn't do anything wrong, and yet they're paying for the crimes of their parents