I don't judge her for saying that at all. In fact, it would be quite a brave thing to come out with as a new mum. It sounds like she was trying to make the connection between how she was feeling and something not being right but was struggling to establish what that was. If you don't know how PND presents then how would you connect it? She sounds very disassociated. I was just being a bit cack handed about the point I was making I think.
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100% agree. She was young, the way teen mums/single mums are spoke of in such a negative way she was probably embarrassed and didn’t want to put SB off.
I’ve had grown adult men deny their children in an attempt to woo me so I don’t find it that alarming that a teenage girl would too.
Ok thanks I struggle to place all the family. But Alicia and frankie are sisters, but Alicia and Frankie are half sisters? Is that right?
Before following the trial, and hearing the evidence I believed FS was equally responsible as I'm sure most people did. Those who still believe she is guilty of murder have obviously not read the evidence.
Yes, Frankie and Alicia are YS's, different dad. Ben and Frankie share a dad (Anita's son).
Alicia has a different dad, yes.
Agree with this. I had my daughter at 20 as a single young parent I was made to feel massively ashamed. 90% of men... scrub that boys that were interested in me were put off by the fact I was a parent. Not that I would ever deny that but I was a resilient, confident,independent young woman. I also was a bit older.
I have read all the evidence and I believe she is guilty of allowing or causing, it seems on here if you say that it means you haven't read the transcripts each day, or you are doubting she has low IQ, DV or vulnerabilities.
I was thinking the other day, when it first made the news that FS and SB had been charged with murder I saw the comments saying Star banged her head while both FS and SB were out of the room so I was super confused but then I saw all the “Justice for Savanna” posts/pages and I assumed she was the innocent one and it was actually FS who was guilty. At the time David’s post about the bruises on Star’s face was still visible on Facebook so I though SB was just implicated because they were in a relationship but she may not have done anything wrong. It’s crazy how social media comments and posts can build a completely different picture to the facts.
I really don’t know how you come to that conclusion. There are several people who feel that way, including LittleMy who starts the threads.
I think it’s when people say she’s guilty of murder and she’s just as bad as SB that it seems they haven’t read the transcripts. I don’t think she’s guilty on either count but I completely understand why others do.
When I was 17 someone I had met a few times but was not friends with had a baby and she got a new boyfriend. The baby was killed in their flat and had horrific injuries, obviously it was murder. They were both in the same room. He killed himself in prison before the trial and she got off with it at court. They had both blamed each other so even if he had not killed himself I think it would have been a not guilty for both as back in the day that's what happened if you blamed each other or said you was not in the room. I am glad things have changed, with the causing and allowing now being able to be used. I do wonder when reading this thread what happened to her, if she went on to have children etc.
Nobody is wrong either way. She could be found guilty in spite of her vulnerabilities or not guilty because of her vulnerabilities. It really is 50/50. I would not like to be on that jury.
For what it’s worth I would still find her guilty.
It was when the prosecution read out all the injuries that were done over a period of time. It made me think nobody could not know that abuse was happening.
At first I was all for both being done for murder, then when FS had her first day on the stand I changed my mind and didn't think she knew, the next day I wasn't so sure. But it definitely swayed my opinion back to thinking she was guilty when the injuries were read out one after one, after one
I'm up and down tbh, which I'm sure the jury are too. I don't believe she should walk free as I think she needs help at the very least to make sure she knows what she did and allowed was a crime. No doubt in my mind she was cruel beyond belief and she has to face the consequences, which I don't believe Star's death is enough. So... as causing/allowing is the only other charge on the table, I suppose I agree with you. I'm so glad I'm not on that jury
It's such a difficult one for the jury to decide and I really empathise with them and I hope they have the support they need.
All you need is reasonable doubt that she didn't allow. She's questioned swollen fingers, she's questioned bruising, her family challenged her about SB abusing star. Now I think SB soon talked her out of this and she didn't belive that there was abuse because she was so besotted and manipulated by SB. But will a jury of 10 men not have any doubt???
All you need is reasonable doubt that she didn't allow. She's questioned swollen fingers, she's questioned bruising, her family challenged her about SB abusing star. Now I think SB soon talked her out of this and she didn't belive that there was abuse because she was so besotted and manipulated by SB. But will a jury of 10 men not have any doubt???
It's funny isn't it because YS actually said she would decide whether or not to support FS, after the trial. She wanted to wait and hear the evidence before making a decision. That is a pretty sophisticated thought process.
I had a bit of inkling into it possibly being more complex than it first came across on SM as my BIL is a PC in Keighley and a few days after it happened he had said that there was more to it than meets the eye (no detail though of course, and he didn't even work on it as it went straight to detectives).
When the trial started I thought they were both guilty, but I did think FS was just following SB - but still thought she was guilty. I’m not sure at what point in the evidence I changed my mind but it was shortly before SB took the stand. Since then I’ve been pretty stuck with FS not being guilty (the prosecution closing speech swayed me briefly though 
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)I guess it is a tough one re Causing or Allowing. I was arguing on TE (fool that I am!) that the prosecution presented evidence of cruelty and neglect by FS - not seeking medical help, CCTV of her making Star crawl up the stairs, talking to her harshly, not allowing sleep etc.
But FS causing death? No evidence. Allowing death? Only circumstantial evidence of allowing SB back in after suspicion of significant harm. But is that evidence of allowing? I would be having sleepless nights as a juror wrangling with that one.
But FS causing death? No evidence. Allowing death? Only circumstantial evidence of allowing SB back in after suspicion of significant harm. But is that evidence of allowing? I would be having sleepless nights as a juror wrangling with that one.
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