Sali Hughes #12 This is not a thread. It is not paid for, not sponsored, nor required by Sali

[lipsticktaser]

I read the tweet re D and E.
The reminded me of the other tweets posted on here. Gossiping on WhatsApp fine, gossiping on here bad.
Then the tweets about Dawn. She’s sorry they upset her. Not sorry about what she said or really that she said it.

just makes me think of ‘I’m not sorry I don’t it, just sorry I got caught’

 

[PineappleQueen19]

Unlike Sali I’ve never publicly made merciless fun of anyone’s facial features or any surgery they may or may not have had. I know it was a while ago, but still. The level of vitriol was high. Do the tables only turn once you yourself are fair game and are unable to control the narrative?

(Side questions on that: does the size of your twitter account really matter when it comes to making deeply personal comments? And does she still do that sort of thing but by WhatsApp now, and does that make it ok?).

I’ve definitely stuck the boot in though.

Taking it through to it’s natural conclusion... are we to have no scrutiny or accountability of influencers? Of course what counts as ‘fair comment’ is subjective and a hot topic all over the Internet. And a good chunk of what is said on this site goes beyond.

But I’m thinking that a lot of it starts from a feeling of a distinct lack of scrutiny. Certainly wouldn’t have ever joined this site if I didn’t feel a deep unease - a sense of things not quite adding up. It becomes hugely troubling when you know there are vast sums of money at stake.

That aside thank you all for your considered posts recently - I’ve spent a lot of time reflecting.

And @GTL Old-Timer - I’m so thrilled for you

 

[Badabing101]

On reflection (again) I totally agree with you all and had forgotten about some of the stuff above. I know she’s not above being bitchy and mean on Twitter (not just DOP) - I’m sure there was some stuff about sacking the stylist for Tess Daly (I may be wrong about that) or words to that effect but it still doesn’t sit comfortably with me given that she is being vocal about her feelings on Twitter.

Totally agree about the apportioning blame and ‘bandwagon’ jumping - there’s so many people on social doing that. Even so it still doesn’t sit well with me. But then I think am I just being manipulated?!?! Who the duck knows and that’s part of my problem, it’s making me feel weird and questioning myself. I definitely all nuance and grey areas - no binary black and white here.

@PineappleQueen19 Yes! That’s it - freedom of opinion and expression - backed up with examples of where we believe a line has been crossed.

I remember a comment a while back about feedback and critique at work through appraisals etc . I have to have someone highlight my development areas and take it...

Also using Sali’s own example of a film critic - is that not what is happening here? Or a book review on amazon or a hotel review on trip advisor?

Anyway I’m tying myself in knots here. Going back to my cave.

Thanks for making me think everyone!! Sali included.

 

[expatfancy]

Can someone quickly sum up what Sali and her minions were saying to Dawn? I can’t imagine what they could have been saying. Dawn is so utterly cool, clever and gorgeous and seems to be a nice down to earth personality. Or was it all jealousy?

 

[AmberSpyglass]

Can someone quickly sum up what Sali and her minions were saying to Dawn? I can’t imagine what they could have been saying. Dawn is so utterly cool, clever and gorgeous and seems to be a nice down to earth personality. Or was it all jealousy?

They called her Prawn for starters , a lot of tweets got deleted or accounts made private when they realised we were able to state Sali was a bully herself but one of our own screen shot some , they’re on the Keats of Foundation thread I think , could be totally wrong though.

 

[bottlewrapper]

If I moan about someone who irritates me, out of their earshot, that is me moaning. Maybe I have a point, maybe not, but as the old saying goes, people who listen at doors never hear good about themselves. It's not bullying, it's not trolling. What people think of you is none of your business.

Also assessing my presence here. I stand by what I previously posted about this site v trolling, because I think they are different.

I also try and avoid (but probably fail sometimes) more personal comments, around her family and even her instigating historic online bullying. Those are of no interest to me.

But I do care about the behaviour of influencers who manipulate 'followers' for sales in an underhand manner, which is really all of them who cling to credibility. I am very concerned about the sudden mass endorsement of HRT and that injectables and lasers give the results influencers ascribe to creams. I am concerned that the planet is disappearing under the over-consumption that these people endorse. I am concerned that these underhand sales tactics exploit followers with fragile mental health, who look for online companionship and belonging.

How else to keep these marketers accountable? The ASA doesn't have funding to patrol all influencers.

Caroline Flack's death is tragic. She was clearly very ill, even though this wasn't public. But Caroline Flack wasn't an influencer, and that all the influencers are now jumping on her death as 'an example' isn't right either.

Still thinking things over, but the where I am right now.

 

[CocoCottesmore]

Any comments on here re Sali's personal appearance or family have been quickly shot down in general. 99% of comments here have been about a lack of honesty and that terrible guardian article which still somehow persists. There has also been justified criticism of her trolling not only Dawn but her tweets on the appearance of multiple other female celebrities, her getting a female writer sacked so she could take her job, and her clear disdain for the general public. All within a contained site.

 

[slugella]

What's this about Dawn apologising to Sali?

 

[AmberSpyglass]

Any comments on here re Sali's personal appearance or family have been quickly shot down in general. 99% of comments here have been about a lack of honesty and that terrible guardian article which still somehow persists. There has also been justified criticism of her trolling not only Dawn but her tweets on the appearance of multiple other female celebrities, her getting a female writer sacked so she could take her job, and her clear disdain for the general public. All within a contained site.

 

[slugella]

I've been thinking about influencers in general regarding what has been discussed here recently. It's such a new world that we don't know the effects of it yet. Who is to say that how these people are earning their money is okay? How do we know how damaging it is to their viewers? I've opened my eyes and wisened up to it, but it breaks my heart thinking of young girls, insecure people, lonely people who are sucked in by these influencers chatting away as if they are a friend, people getting into debt and feeling not good enough. It's so different to advertising we originally saw in magazines. These influencers are letting us in to their whole lives, showing their relationships and family life. Recommending products isnt just a photo and a caption in a magazine now, its a sit down video chatting us through the product. The ASA are not doing enough yet. That's what brings me to this thread as it's actually quite refreshing to see others seeing these influencers and what they post, taking a step back and thinking wait is this ethical/okay.

The influencer world is so new. Are we just meant to accept it and keep quiet? The influencers themselves don't want to engage in discussion, yet discussing them on here is unacceptable. And by discussing I mean discussing their unethical and shady behaviour, not trolling them and their families which I have no time for.

Its been a long day at work hopefully this made some sense

 

[PineappleQueen19]

I've been thinking about influencers in general regarding what has been discussed here recently. It's such a new world that we don't know the effects of it yet. Who is to say that how these people are earning their money is okay? How do we know how damaging it is to their viewers? I've opened my eyes and wisened up to it, but it breaks my heart thinking of young girls, insecure people, lonely people who are sucked in by these influencers chatting away as if they are a friend, people getting into debt and feeling not good enough. It's so different to advertising we originally saw in magazines. These influencers are letting us in to their whole lives, showing their relationships and family life. Recommending products isnt just a photo and a caption in a magazine now, its a sit down video chatting us through the product. The ASA are not doing enough yet. That's what brings me to this thread as it's actually quite refreshing to see others seeing these influencers and what they post, taking a step back and thinking wait is this ethical/okay.

The influencer world is so new. Are we just meant to accept it and keep quiet? The influencers themselves don't want to engage in discussion, yet discussing them on here is unacceptable. And by discussing I mean discussing their unethical and shady behaviour, not trolling them and their families which I have no time for.

Its been a long day at work hopefully this made some sense

This makes perfect sense and I would be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt if there weren’t such staggering sums of money involved. The beauty industry now contributes more to the U.K. economy than the automobile industry does.

And as with most things the devil is in the detail.. for example perhaps we can all agree the ex-towie lot flogging laxative tea they’ve never even tried is bad but a pink-tinted mineral oil cream for older women being sold for a humongous markup is ok if the buyer can afford it? Who gets to draw the line? And is it not ok to even have the conversation?

 

[AmberSpyglass]

This makes perfect sense and I would be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt if there weren’t such staggering sums of money involved. The beauty industry now contributes more to the U.K. economy than the automobile industry does.

And as with most things the devil is in the detail.. for example perhaps we can all agree the ex-towie lot flogging laxative tea they’ve never even tried is bad but a pink-tinted mineral oil cream for older women being sold for a humongous markup is ok if the buyer can afford it? Who gets to draw the line? And is it not ok to even have the conversation?

I love you for saying the things I wish I said first!

 

[Rosie878]

Agree. I feel like any dialogue would be shouted down and chalked up to online abuse.
It’s a tricky one. Some threads on here are awful. But this one is just mainly some ex fans, standing in front of an influencer, asking her to be honest about her ads!

I would prefer it If tattle threads didn’t come up in search results.

I read the tweet re D and E.
The reminded me of the other tweets posted on here. Gossiping on WhatsApp fine, gossiping on here bad.
Then the tweets about Dawn. She’s sorry they upset her. Not sorry about what she said or really that she said it.

just makes me think of ‘I’m not sorry I don’t it, just sorry I got caught’

I think modern life is really quite lonely and the idea that we all have a big WhatsApp group of mates who watch the same Instagrammers etc as us is unreasonable. Most people on this forum have family commitments, busy jobs, illness, elderly/ill relatives to name a few. Much harder to make friends than the average instagrammer/Youtuber who gets invited to tonnes of networking events as part of their daily job.
Also the nature of media/advertising and how this has seeped into the social media that everyone uses to stay in touch with each other has arguably had a profound effect on society. This forum is an outlet for that and I think that’s necessary in the context of the loneliness/busyness mentioned earlier.

 

[Raindropsonkittens]

Ethically & morally there is, in my mind, a significant difference between Sali with her power, platform, reach & influence bitching & trolling on Twitter/Insta and our comments on here. Whether it is Owen Jones, Esther Walker, Dawn O’P, Lauren Luke...the impact personally & professionally of a ‘Blue Ticker’ going after you is much greater. If Sali is upset by a few harsh but true/fair & piss-taking threads on here, she either needs to get out of the public eye or take on board the feedback, acknowledge where she’s got it wrong & change. And then it would stop. It is no coincidence that Lisa Eldridge, Caroline Barnes & other beauty content providers don’t get the same grief - it’s because they appear to behave with integrity & act/speak consistently. They also don’t use their private lives as fodder. I’m afraid it is a case of chickens coming home to roost, and though it may hurt Sali’s feelings, she holds the remedy in her hands.

 

[slugella]

Ethically & morally there is, in my mind, a significant difference between Sali with her power, platform, reach & influence bitching & trolling on Twitter/Insta and our comments on here. Whether it is Owen Jones, Esther Walker, Dawn O’P, Lauren Luke...the impact personally & professionally of a ‘Blue Ticker’ going after you is much greater. If Sali is upset by a few harsh but true/fair & piss-taking threads on here, she either needs to get out of the public eye or take on board the feedback, acknowledge where she’s got it wrong & change. And then it would stop. It is no coincidence that Lisa Eldridge, Caroline Barnes & other beauty content providers don’t get the same grief - it’s because they appear to behave with integrity & act/speak consistently. They also don’t use their private lives as fodder. I’m afraid it is a case of chickens coming home to roost, and though it may hurt Sali’s feelings, she holds the remedy in her hands.

Very well said. I know absolutely nothing about Lisa Eldridges personal life. And the only reason I know anything about Sali's family is from her own articles and tweets which she chose to write.

 

[Badabing101]

I’ve been around the block with this thread about 15 times! Such eloquent and well made points. Really making me think.

 

[AmberSpyglass]

Owen reminded her she’d never posted about Islamophobia , she realised he was right and used the “lost tweets” as a defence and that caused her to lose her grip on the argument.

 

[BostonFernGreen]

It’s very difficult to know if criticism is OK and where to draw the line.

The overwhelming point is that nobody wants to be criticised but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be. I’ve got loads of tit habits I wouldn’t particularly like to be told off about. And if I do them on my own at home that seems reasonable. But if I do them not just in public, but on a platform designed to spread awareness of brand Me, then I believe I would feel that’s a reasonable exchange. I get to do my tit habits in public, which encourage people to feel they need £50 foundation and £150 skincare regime, and people get to criticise me.

It’s always OK to draw boundaries and state what is comfortable for you. But if I ran around work saying that anyone who criticises me is a wanker and should be punished and I know where they live and who they’re married to, I would face dire consequences.

If I were SH I would either: never use my platform to bash anyone, ever again. Either individuals or vague generalisations or behaviours. I would tweet something to that effect and say it hurts me so I won’t be doing it, and I would like the same courtesy extended to me, please.

OR.

I would withdraw and admit I love to play nasty but I don’t like it to be directed at me.

OR

I would think hmmmmm I actually like having a minor witch on social media. Twitter is my office water cooler. Maybe Tattle has that function for other people. At least they don’t have the reach I have.

What I can’t understand is picking a little bit from each of these, and coincidentally they all mean that SH must do whatever is right and justifiable to her but other people don’t have that right.

I am no stranger to mental illness and I fiercely believe in looking after one another and being gentle. In these threads I’ve mainly seen people fighting for the underdog and showing one another quite a lot of compassion and support, plus a few laughs.

Maybe the thread could carry on but only ever use literally exactly the same language SH herself has ever used about others in the past on the assumption that that is the measure of what is acceptable. I’m willing to bet it would suddenly be grossly unacceptable.

Anyway, the influencer bubble is changing by the minute so maybe the questionable ethics, dishonesty and exhausting/destructive consumerism are on their way out and this thread has run it’s course.

It’s a great testament to the thoughtful people here that everyone is having pause for thought and examining their own motivations.

PS I am still confused about Dawn and Esther apologising to SH. Is that true? Did they do something horrible to her? I had no idea. Just shows how opaque the whole thing is!

 

[AmberSpyglass]

Here:

.....and this regarding Esther and Giles.

 

[BostonFernGreen]

Wow! That’s nice to see. Maybe this awful tragedy will be an opportunity for many people to reflect and act with more kindness (myself included)