Racism Discussions

[Pambo]

This is nonsense. No one's saying white children are "evil".

The fact of the matter is that white people are in the majority in the West and, therefore, the balance of power is in their favour. White people can experience prejudice and insults, of course, but they can't experience racism because they hold the cards.

I'm white and I can safely say no one has ever been 'racist' to me. I've seen security guards follow a black guy around a shop - but barely gave me a second glance. Why do they think I'm less of a risk based solely on my skin colour?

When white people try to act like they're poor and downtrodden purely because of their skin colour, it looks silly.

Many of the Asian rapists involved in sex gangs such as Rotherham boasted of being racist and specifically targeting white girls: Eight members of Asian sex gang guilty of raping and degrading three teenagers.

Even The Guardian was prepared to admit to racially motivated crime against whites once upon a time: Racial murders: nearly half the victims are white.

We're all human. We're all capable of racism. You don't need to be in power to manifest it and your purely personal and anecdotal experience isn't a large enough sample to disprove that.

 

[daydreamer95]

Many of the Asian rapists involved in sex gangs such as Rotherham boasted of being racist and specifically targeting white girls: Eight members of Asian sex gang guilty of raping and degrading three teenagers.

Even The Guardian was prepared to admit to racially motivated crime against whites once upon a time: Racial murders: nearly half the victims are white.

We're all human. We're all capable of racism. You don't need to be in power to manifest it and your purely personal and anecdotal experience isn't a large enough sample to disprove that.

Pambo white women in particular find it hard to grasp that all people are capable of racism
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21 June 2021

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/203/education-committee/news/156024/forgotten-white-workingclass-pupils-let-down-by-decades-of-neglect-mps-say/

Rt Hon Robert Halfon MP, Chair of the Education Committee, said: “For decades now White working-class pupils have been let down and neglected by an education system that condemns them to falling behind their peers every step of the way. White working-class pupils underperform significantly compared to other ethnic groups, but there has been muddled thinking from all governments and a lack of attention and care to help these disadvantaged White pupils in towns across our country.

If the Government is serious about closing the overall attainment gap, then the problems faced by the biggest group of disadvantaged pupils can no longer be swept under the carpet. Never again should we lazily put the gap down to poverty alone, given that we know free school meal eligible pupils from other ethnic groups consistently out perform their White British peers. In 2019, less than 18% of free school meal eligible White British pupils achieved a strong pass in English and Maths GCSEs, compared with 22.5% of all similarly disadvantaged pupils. This equates to nearly 39,000 White working-class children missing out.

So far, the Department for Education has been reluctant to recognise the specific challenges faced by the White working class, let alone do anything to tackle this chronic social injustice. This must stop now.

Economic and cultural factors are having a stifling effect on the life chances of many White disadvantaged pupils with low educational outcomes persisting from one generation to the next. The Government needs to tackle intergenerational disadvantage, inbuilt disadvantages based on where people live and disengagement from the curriculum.

What is needed is a tailor-made approach to local funding and investment in early years and family hubs. This should be alongside more vocational opportunities, a skills-based curriculum and a commitment to addressing low participation in higher education.

We also desperately need to move away from dealing with racial disparity by using divisive concepts like White Privilege that pits one group against another. Disadvantaged White children feel anything but privileged when it comes to education.

Privilege is the very opposite to what disadvantaged white children enjoy or benefit from in an education system which is now leaving far too many behind.”

 

[greenvelvet]

RE the Halfon quote above - I am quite annoyed by this because I largely agree with this: “What is needed is a tailor-made approach to local funding and investment in early years and family hubs. This should be alongside more vocational opportunities, a skills-based curriculum and a commitment to addressing low participation in higher education.”

But it is so insidious to attribute the low access rates of white working class children to higher education and skilled training opportunities to anti-white racism. I am absolutely exhausted so sorry if this is garbled.

IMO, the main reason white working class children’s continuation rates are lower than their non-white counterparts’ is that non-white people live mostly in London and other big cities - vocational and educational opportunities in rural areas and under-serviced towns (where most white working class people live) are sorely lacking. The level of opportunity for people in big cities just massively outweighs what is available in other areas. There are so many bodies oriented around London, whether they are charities or businesses or universities or other educational bodies (including many state-funded initiatives), than can provide subsidised or free training opportunities to young people and connect with them generally - and well-paying jobs for when they leave education (which itself is a huge motivation to pursue training). It’s still not enough for everyone, but it is much more than is available elsewhere, and generally higher-quality too.

This comes back down to a systematic underfunding of public services & educational opportunities and a lack of a proper plan and action to develop industries in areas outside of London and other big cities. It has nothing to do with racism. When he says, “Never again should we lazily put the gap down to poverty alone, given that we know free school meal eligible pupils from other ethnic groups consistently out perform their White British peers”, he is implying that reverse racism is the reason why this is happening and it just isn’t. The impact on white working class children is a consequence of the government’s under-investment and disorganisation in areas where white working class people live.

The fact is, the Conservative government is too incompetent, or just doesn’t want, to develop the infrastructure needed to improve prospects in underdeveloped parts of the UK.

There is more to this, such as how the circumstances that led to the above have impacted attitudes and understanding of pursuing further education (to massively oversimplify it, families rooted in towns with long-obliterated industries compared to low-income economic migrants to big cities & their descendants) but this is already take-the-piss long.

 

[Glortard]

This is nonsense. No one's saying white children are "evil".

The fact of the matter is that white people are in the majority in the West and, therefore, the balance of power is in their favour. White people can experience prejudice and insults, of course, but they can't experience racism because they hold the cards.

I'm white and I can safely say no one has ever been 'racist' to me. I've seen security guards follow a black guy around a shop - but barely gave me a second glance. Why do they think I'm less of a risk based solely on my skin colour?

When white people try to act like they're poor and downtrodden purely because of their skin colour, it looks silly.

I stay in Scotland where there has only been 1 racially motivated murder. This was of a white 16 year old who was randomly targeted because he was white, he was beaten, stabbed multiple times and set on fire whilst still alive, The accused where admitted targeting him simply due to the colour of his skin and where convicted by a jury of racially motivated murder. So spare me white people cannot experience racism as it does not fit the victim narrative you have bought into.

My family where originally from Ireland and emigrated at time early in the 20th century when the church of Scotland who where the establishment church where proposing an amendment that would require all Irish Catholics to go home to Ireland. For decades after they came they where banned from certain professions and employers. The anti irish catholic racism still exists to this day here but thankfully its improved since the time we had no irish, no blacks, no dogs signs on the like of boarding houses.

We have also seen a large influx of Polish people many of who have experienced racism at the hands of white people here. This is backed up by crime statistics. What is not on them is the undercurrent that certain members of the nationalist community have here towards English people.

Getting back the the "white children are evil" and yes CRT primarily in America but its making its way over here are separating children (who are all friends) based upon their colour and teaching white kids that they have privilege and should have guilt all because of the fact they are white

 

[Ingognito.Queen]

The anti irish catholic racism still exists to this day here but thankfully its improved since the time we had no irish, no blacks, no dogs signs on the like of boarding houses.

Wow - really?

Can you give an example of where you have seen/experienced this?

 

[Glortard]

Wow - really?

Can you give an example of where you have seen/experienced this?

It was prevalent in the 50's and 60s

'It Was Standard To See Signs Saying, 'No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish' - EachOther

Mahesh Upadhyaya reflects on becoming the first person in the UK to challenge racism and racial discrimination in court, through the Race Relations Act 1968.

eachother.org.uk

No proof? How the infamous 'No Irish, no blacks, no dogs' signs may never have existed | The Irish Post

NO Irish, no blacks, no dogs. Those menacing six words are a stark, unapologetically racist expr...

www.irishpost.com

 

[Ensay]

I stay in Scotland where there has only been 1 racially motivated murder. This was of a white 16 year old who was randomly targeted because he was white, he was beaten, stabbed multiple times and set on fire whilst still alive, The accused where admitted targeting him simply due to the colour of his skin and where convicted by a jury of racially motivated murder. So spare me white people cannot experience racism as it does not fit the victim narrative you have bought into.

My family where originally from Ireland and emigrated at time early in the 20th century when the church of Scotland who where the establishment church where proposing an amendment that would require all Irish Catholics to go home to Ireland. For decades after they came they where banned from certain professions and employers. The anti irish catholic racism still exists to this day here but thankfully its improved since the time we had no irish, no blacks, no dogs signs on the like of boarding houses.

We have also seen a large influx of Polish people many of who have experienced racism at the hands of white people here. This is backed up by crime statistics. What is not on them is the undercurrent that certain members of the nationalist community have here towards English people.

Getting back the the "white children are evil" and yes CRT primarily in America but its making its way over here are separating children (who are all friends) based upon their colour and teaching white kids that they have privilege and should have guilt all because of the fact they are white

You haven't read my post if you think I've bought into a "victim narrative". In fact, I said the opposite. I'm not a victim.

What you're describing is prejudice. Which isn't okay and I'm not excusing it. It's just not racism.

I think when people read "white people can't experience racism" they translate it to: "white people can never be treated badly by non-white people" which isn't what it means.

This short extract from an article written by Renni Eddo-Lodge helps bring out how so many white people refuse to listen. Her frustration is palpable and makes perfect sense:

On 22 February 2014, I published a post on my blog. I titled it “Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People about Race”. It read: “I’m no longer engaging with white people on the topic of race. Not all white people, just the vast majority who refuse to accept the existence of structural racism and its symptoms. I can no longer engage with the gulf of an emotional disconnect that white people display when a person of colour articulates their experience. You can see their eyes shut down and harden. It’s like treacle is poured into their ears, blocking up their ear canals. It’s like they can no longer hear us.

“This emotional disconnect is the conclusion of living a life oblivious to the fact that their skin colour is the norm and all others deviate from it.

“They’ve never had to think about what it means, in power terms, to be white, so any time they’re vaguely reminded of this fact, they interpret it as an affront. Their eyes glaze over in boredom or widen in indignation. Their mouths start twitching as they get defensive. Their throats open up as they try to interrupt, itching to talk over you but not to really listen, because they need to let you know that you’ve got it wrong.

Full article below if anyone wants to learn:

Why I’m no longer talking to white people about race

The long read: For years, racism has been defined by the violence of far-right extremists, but a more insidious kind of prejudice can be found where many least expect it – at the heart of respectable society

www.theguardian.com

 

[Pambo]

Wow - really?

Can you give an example of where you have seen/experienced this?

Glortard said, "I stay in Scotland". You probably don't have to look much further than a Celtic vs Rangers football match.

 

[Ingognito.Queen]

It was prevalent in the 50's and 60s

'It Was Standard To See Signs Saying, 'No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish' - EachOther

Mahesh Upadhyaya reflects on becoming the first person in the UK to challenge racism and racial discrimination in court, through the Race Relations Act 1968.

eachother.org.uk

No proof? How the infamous 'No Irish, no blacks, no dogs' signs may never have existed | The Irish Post

NO Irish, no blacks, no dogs. Those menacing six words are a stark, unapologetically racist expr...

www.irishpost.com

Oh I know that...you said it 'still exists to this day.' I was just wondering, in what way?

 

[Glortard]

You haven't read my post if you think I've bought into a "victim narrative". In fact, I said the opposite. I'm not a victim.

What you're describing is prejudice. Which isn't okay and I'm not excusing it. It's just not racism.

I think when people read "white people can't experience racism" they translate it to: "white people can never be treated badly by non-white people" which isn't what it means.

This short extract from an article written by Renni Eddo-Lodge helps bring out how so many white people refuse to listen. Her frustration is palpable and makes perfect sense:

On 22 February 2014, I published a post on my blog. I titled it “Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People about Race”. It read: “I’m no longer engaging with white people on the topic of race. Not all white people, just the vast majority who refuse to accept the existence of structural racism and its symptoms. I can no longer engage with the gulf of an emotional disconnect that white people display when a person of colour articulates their experience. You can see their eyes shut down and harden. It’s like treacle is poured into their ears, blocking up their ear canals. It’s like they can no longer hear us.

“This emotional disconnect is the conclusion of living a life oblivious to the fact that their skin colour is the norm and all others deviate from it.

“They’ve never had to think about what it means, in power terms, to be white, so any time they’re vaguely reminded of this fact, they interpret it as an affront. Their eyes glaze over in boredom or widen in indignation. Their mouths start twitching as they get defensive. Their throats open up as they try to interrupt, itching to talk over you but not to really listen, because they need to let you know that you’ve got it wrong.

Full article below if anyone wants to learn:

Why I’m no longer talking to white people about race

The long read: For years, racism has been defined by the violence of far-right extremists, but a more insidious kind of prejudice can be found where many least expect it – at the heart of respectable society

www.theguardian.com

What I described was two different things

1 - A racially motivated murder which I see who have ignored

2 - Anti Irish Catholic Racism

The latter is not prejudice, its not sectarianism its racism and quoting from a guardian article from Reni - quote stats which shows there is not structural racism and she will deny it and call you a racist most likely. She is on the victim gravy boat

 

[monga]

Wow - really?

Can you give an example of where you have seen/experienced this?

It’s why the NI troubles started and civil rights organisations were formed here, people were interred and beaten , prevented from voting, held back from getting housing and jobs for nothing more than they identified as Irish Catholic, its still very prevalent today hence why we don’t have a sitting government, an Irish Catholic was democratically elected but no unionist will serve under a second class citizen…Marlene explains it very well in her Future Hackney article.

Ngozi — Future Hackney

futurehackney.com

 

[Glortard]

Glortard said, "I stay in Scotland". You probably don't have to look much further than a Celtic vs Rangers football match.

Don't use the two cheeks of the same arse argument as its tired and old showing your lack of understanding of a centuries old problem that predates the 1920's
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Oh I know that...you said it 'still exists to this day.' I was just wondering, in what way?

people have been jailed for threatening people from an irish catholic backgroud in the last decade in Scotland

 

[Ensay]

What I described was two different things

1 - A racially motivated murder which I see who have ignored

2 - Anti Irish Catholic Racism

The latter is not prejudice, its not sectarianism its racism and quoting from a guardian article from Reni - quote stats which shows there is not structural racism and she will deny it and call you a racist most likely. She is on the victim gravy boat

I didn't ignore it; I just said it wasn't racism.

I don't see how it's possible to be racist to someone who's Irish and Catholic, when neither of those things are a race. They're a nationality and a religion respectively.

I quoted the article from Reni because it summarises what you're doing. When racism is raised it's "la la la I'm not listening and here's this thing that's unrelated!"

I can see this is pointless.

 

[monga]

 

[Pambo]

Don't use the two cheeks of the same arse argument as its tired and old showing your lack of understanding of a centuries old problem that predates the 1920's

I wasn't attempting to reduce sectarianism in Scotland to a football match. I'm well aware it's a centuries old issue and was merely highlighting one very visible public stage that underlying history of religious bigotry can be viewed in.

 

[monga]

We never pointed to the blackman giving the beating as any different to the white man dishing it out ,they were equal in their hate, oppression and racism in our eyes.

 

[Glortard]

I didn't ignore it; I just said it wasn't racism.

I don't see how it's possible to be racist to someone who's Irish and Catholic, when neither of those things are a race. They're a nationality and a religion respectively.

I quoted the article from Reni because it summarises what you're doing. When racism is raised it's "la la la I'm not listening and here's this thing that's unrelated!"

I can see this is pointless.

Firstly I stated white privilege is a myth - total made up nonsense which is supported by many black people that are against it.

Racis is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized:

An ethnicity or ethnic group is a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of perceived shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Those attributes can include common sets of traditions, ancestry, language, history, society, nation, religion, or social treatment within their residing area

Your argument is the exact same argument that people use when they dish out the likes of "taigs" or other insults with well Irish or Catholic is not a race so it cant be racism.

Below is a story of a female journalist who has and continues to be subject to shocking racist abuse all because she had the audacity to edit a book. One of the perpetrators was convicted of "racially aggravated abuse"

Victim of anti-Irish racism speaks of relief as ‘Taig of the Day’ host found guilty | The Irish Post

Scottish-based journalist Angela Haggerty has had to take special measures to conceal her identity after becoming the target of anti-Irish abuse online.

www.irishpost.com

So don't come here on your high horse and dismiss racism because it does not impact you or it does not fit your narrative.

 

[greenvelvet]

I just don’t see the point of this. If you are upset by the prospects of the white working class, sitting and bemoaning anti-racist initiatives is not going to make things any better. It distracts from what the problem really is.

White working class people should feel like they are not being cared for by the state properly - because areas outside big cities, areas where they live, are being neglected. There is a lot more we could do to improve the prospects and quality of life of the working class. But it doesnt help anything to fixate on measures to remove racism from society. The focus should be on class and the issues that come from various areas having their industries destroyed and not replaced and not having the infrastructure needed to supply opportunities and care to them.

 

[monga]

Firstly I stated white privilege is a myth - total made up nonsense which is supported by many black people that are against it.

Racis is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized:

An ethnicity or ethnic group is a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of perceived shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Those attributes can include common sets of traditions, ancestry, language, history, society, nation, religion, or social treatment within their residing area

Your argument is the exact same argument that people use when they dish out the likes of "taigs" or other insults with well Irish or Catholic is not a race so it cant be racism.

Below is a story of a female journalist who has and continues to be subject to shocking racist abuse all because she had the audacity to edit a book. One of the perpetrators was convicted of "racially aggravated abuse"

Victim of anti-Irish racism speaks of relief as ‘Taig of the Day’ host found guilty | The Irish Post

Scottish-based journalist Angela Haggerty has had to take special measures to conceal her identity after becoming the target of anti-Irish abuse online.

www.irishpost.com

So don't come here on your high horse and dismiss racism because it does not impact you or it does not fit your narrative.

Not forgetting state collusion , where else would it be acceptable for a gov to put guns in the hands of killers to point them at a certain group of people…

Collusion in killing Catholics was no mistake - it was a policy

The Police Ombudsman's latest report is just further proof that police collusion during the Troubles in Northern Ireland, in killing Catholics, was not just a case of a "few bad apples" but "refined and well-practiced" policy.

www.irishcentral.com

 

[Pambo]

. . . I think when people read "white people can't experience racism" they translate it to: "white people can never be treated badly by non-white people" which isn't what it means.

When I read "white people can't experience racism", I just take it at face value, no translation required.

Similarly, when a POC declares, “I am a racist and I attacked this white person because of the colour of their skin”, I don’t think they’ve been brainwashed into believing they’re a racist by some sort of osmosis of the corrupting, all pervading white supremacist atmosphere that apparently surrounds them, I just take that at face value too.

I’m real colour blind that way. When someone shows me what they are and admits to it, I don’t think any deeper analysis is needed.