Nurses striking

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

The government betrayed healthcare workers by not adequately preparing for the pandemic. There was an exercise not long before covid which highlighted the government's lack of preparedness for a pandemic and recommended actions...which they didn't undertake. Not only did HCPs have to rapidly learn how to treat this particular virus, but also had to work without adequate protection or resource.

I'm not minimising your view that you don't support strikes or a pay rise as that's of course up to you, but the 'what they trained for' line isn't the whole story is it.

Aren’t you a little bit dramatic Honestly “betrayed” really?
Not a single country in the world were prepared despite virologists warning governments for years something like this is likely to happen.
Anyway this is what medical care workers are trained for.

 

[Emsie]

So you’re on your feet for 12 hour shifts, then, responsible for the near-to-death at every second? If so, I’d love to know what industry you work in.

No I'm not but that doesn't mean I don't work hard. Comments like this is why you lose my support I don't owe you anything.
Its not just nurses using food banks! Why you acting like the cost of living crisis is only affecting your profession!

 

[struggs123]

Aren’t you a little bit dramatic Honestly “betrayed” really?
Not a single country in the world were prepared despite virologists warning governments for years something like this is likely to happen.
Anyway this is what medical care workers are trained for.

Its not dramatic, your mocking shows you have no clue though so explains your ignorance. No, people don't train for a pandemic in a short staffed and inadequate health service without the correct equipment as I've said. That makes it better then that no country was prepared, let's just forget that the British government literally had it in black and white what they should to do be prepared and thought duck it. Just because other countries invariably did similar not sure how that makes it alright- no wonder they get away with being crap if people happily accept low standards.

Again not arsed on your opinions on the strikes or healthcare professionals in general, but relating to the pandemic you're clueless.

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No I'm not but that doesn't mean I don't work hard. Comments like this is why you lose my support I don't owe you anything.
Its not just nurses using food banks! Why you acting like the cost of living crisis is only affecting your profession!

Personally I'd support anyone striking, i think the government and the private sector have been squeezing peoples wages for their own gain for many many years and its about time they were brought to task on this.

 

[unidentified]

I think what gets forgotten about is that yes people choose to the job, yes people know what the salary is but those that have been qualified a long time are no longer able to do the job they trained for because working conditions are so bad and their salary has not risen with inflation. So as much as people can say ‘they knew what they were getting into’ for a lot of people no, they didn’t. The services have also changed drastically and not just as the populations needs have changed but people’s demands and expectations. Every health professional is now doing doing it on less staff and often unsafe skill mix.

 

[miss n thropy]

Nurse deserve more money. They have the same right to strike as any other member of society.

Whilst not all economists agree, (just like not all philosophers, paleonotologists, epidemiologists etc. etc. agree) many believe that public sector pay rises do not fuel inflation therefore have no effect on that part of the cost of living crisis. This is because they do not form part of any production chain and therefore those costs are not passed on.

Reform of tax breaks for Non Dom status taxpayers could raise more than enough money for their pay rises. (Not corporate taxes). We might lose a few of these ultra wealthy but who cares.

Better paid members of unions go on strike to support the lower paid members. If the only people who went on strike were the lowest paid of any sector then the withdrawal of labour, the only bargaining chip working people have, would not be effective.

This government can always find millions for projects they want to which are largely unnecessary. See the millions already found for the voter I.D. Scheme.

I bleeping hate this particular government with a passion. I am over 60 and have seen many but I cannot remember any previous government of any party with so many lying, corrupt self serving grifters. notwithstanding Covid and the Ukraine war, much of the current crisis and division in this country is down to them.

For the avoidance of any doubt, I fully support all NHS workers taking strike action.

Power to the People (Citizen Smith reference for anyone old enough to remember)

 

[Emsie]

Non dom status could fund lots of things though not just nurses payrises.
I don't disagree with the act of going on strike, but on this occasion I disagree with the reasoning.

 

[miss n thropy]

Non dom status could fund lots of things though not just nurses payrises.
I don't disagree with the act of going on strike, but on this occasion I disagree with the reasoning.

Indeed there would be money from getting rid of ND status to fund pay rises and more!

At the end of the day, no one should have to strike. Anyone who works hard, full time in this country, the 6th largest economy as the Tories like to remind us, should be able to afford a house, to eat and some treats. This whole you need to budget from Tory MPs who get subsidised food, sickens me.

I really believe many of the current actions are as a result of the growing inequality in this country between the ultra wealthy and everyone else. As a country I think we need these actions as they highlight this growing disparity.

I am not badly off and I am in a fortunate position of having been able to retire early and still have a decent standard of living. (My husband still works). I hope lovely tattlers here don’t think I say that to brag, I just understand and appreciate that many people younger than me are not in that position and never will be not because they don’t work as hard as I did, but simply because of the current governments financial mismanagement and malfeasance.

(Again, I hate this government so much I tend only to read and take note of media outlets which I agree with, as I suspect most people do, but I think there is undeniable evidence in the public domain or their corruption.)

 

[gigilouxx]

No I'm not but that doesn't mean I don't work hard. Comments like this is why you lose my support I don't owe you anything.
Its not just nurses using food banks! Why you acting like the cost of living crisis is only affecting your profession!

Literally it’s doing my head in as well. God forbid anyone other than NHS staff work hard

 

[Emsie]

Indeed there would be money from getting rid of ND status to fund pay rises and more!

At the end of the day, no one should have to strike. Anyone who works hard, full time in this country, the 6th largest economy as the Tories like to remind us, should be able to afford a house, to eat and some treats. This whole you need to budget from Tory MPs who get subsidised food, sickens me.

I really believe many of the current actions are as a result of the growing inequality in this country between the ultra wealthy and everyone else. As a country I think we need these actions as they highlight this growing disparity.

I am not badly off and I am in a fortunate position of having been able to retire early and still have a decent standard of living. (My husband still works). I hope lovely tattlers here don’t think I say that to brag, I just understand and appreciate that many people younger than me are not in that position and never will be not because they don’t work as hard as I did, but simply because of the current governments financial mismanagement and malfeasance.

(Again, I hate this government so much I tend only to read and take note of media outlets which I agree with, as I suspect most people do, but I think there is undeniable evidence in the public domain or their corruption.)

I agree with everything you've said. The Tory government is tit and I can't abide their Tory tips. Budget better, put tinfoil at the back of your radiator, turn your lights off, eat boiled eggs and bread for tea I actually don't think labour are much better either and I don't want to vote for either of them but that's another thread
My point with nurses is, I earn around the same as an average nurse. I also pay mortgage, child care costs and my own parking and I'm not at a foodbank and the argument about payrises doesn't sit comfortably with me.
If the conditions are as bad as nurses say on this thread then absolutely that needs to be addressed.... However my two visits to hospital this month do not support that claim. But I'm not there on a regular basis so...

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Literally it’s doing my head in as well. God forbid anyone other than NHS staff work hard

Mate this is what is getting on my last nerve. Do you work a 12 hour shift. Well yeah I do actually! No it's not saving lives but my work is just as important to my profession.

 

[struggs123]

The wages thing for me is to increase recruitment and retention. There's a severe shortage and wages are one way to attract more people to the profession, I don't think what someone's paid is a reflection of their contribution to society or a reflection of how hard they work anyway- otherwise bloody influencers wouldn't be paid thousands for a social media post. Lots of us across different progressions, sectors and at different stages of our career are working in increasingly challenging jobs for decreasing wages and are experiencing a slip in standard of living.

I don't believe I worked harder as a nurse than others, but I do think for a graduate profession and for the conditions (which would improve if there were more staff) it is lowly paid compared to our contemporaries across the globe, and in relation to other jobs that require similar quals. I don't think we work harder and are more important serves us well, in fact it does the opposite; we should be reminding people it's a job and not a vocation that people will do for lower wages because they're passionate about helping people. I do think in some ways that creates barriers.

 

[emm]

The wages thing for me is to increase recruitment and retention. There's a severe shortage and wages are one way to attract more people to the profession, I don't think what someone's paid is a reflection of their contribution to society or a reflection of how hard they work anyway- otherwise bloody influencers wouldn't be paid thousands for a social media post. Lots of us across different progressions, sectors and at different stages of our career are working in increasingly challenging jobs for decreasing wages and are experiencing a slip in standard of living.

I don't believe I worked harder as a nurse than others, but I do think for a graduate profession and for the conditions (which would improve if there were more staff) it is lowly paid compared to our contemporaries across the globe, and in relation to other jobs that require similar quals. I don't think we work harder and are more important serves us well, in fact it does the opposite; we should be reminding people it's a job and not a vocation that people will do for lower wages because they're passionate about helping people. I do think in some ways that creates barriers.

Also with the new visa restrictions post brevity which are based on income, nurses starting salaries don't meet the criteria so there isn't even the chance to recruit from abroad, unless they change these things (which I presume they will have to)

 

[miss n thropy]

The wages thing for me is to increase recruitment and retention. There's a severe shortage and wages are one way to attract more people to the profession, I don't think what someone's paid is a reflection of their contribution to society or a reflection of how hard they work anyway- otherwise bloody influencers wouldn't be paid thousands for a social media post. Lots of us across different progressions, sectors and at different stages of our career are working in increasingly challenging jobs for decreasing wages and are experiencing a slip in standard of living.

I don't believe I worked harder as a nurse than others, but I do think for a graduate profession and for the conditions (which would improve if there were more staff) it is lowly paid compared to our contemporaries across the globe, and in relation to other jobs that require similar quals. I don't think we work harder and are more important serves us well, in fact it does the opposite; we should be reminding people it's a job and not a vocation that people will do for lower wages because they're passionate about helping people. I do think in some ways that creates barriers.

I also believe, (and again, my hatred of the Tories means I am more likely to believe it) that it is in the interest of some very wealthy individuals to have qualified nurses leave the NHS for better pay in agencies. When qualified nurses leave the NHS for better pay, they also create gaps which must be covered.

At least 16 Tory peers in the HoL have interests in private healthcare firms as do a number of Tory MPs. At least one has vast interest in an agency which supplies cover nurses at vast cost to the NHS and ultimately the taxpayer. Fewer nurses in the profession means more profit for these greedy large cats. profits which ultimately come from the taxpayer.

 

[emm]

I also believe, (and again, my hatred of the Tories means I am more likely to believe it) that it is in the interest of some very wealthy individuals to have qualified nurses leave the NHS for better pay in agencies. When qualified nurses leave the NHS for better pay, they also create gaps which must be covered.

At least 16 Tory peers in the HoL have interests in private healthcare firms as do a number of Tory MPs. At least one has vast interest in an agency which supplies cover nurses at vast cost to the NHS and ultimately the taxpayer. Fewer nurses in the profession means more profit for these greedy large cats. profits which ultimately come from the taxpayer.

Exactly, it is just a way to move towards making private health care the norm. Terrifying

 

[Emsie]

I'm not convinced that increasing a salary is going to make young people want to become nurses. The world has evolved so much that these types of roles aren't encouraged. Young people don't want to be be nurses, or teachers, or social workers. They want to be podcast hosts, travel bloggers, influencers.
Increasing a salary may help slightly, but it isn't the only answer.
I don't agree with the rhetoric that it's a calling, the government use that excuse to make it seem like it's your fault you're a nurse but surely there has to be some degree of calling?! I would never want to be a nurse and no amount of salary would change my mind on that.
Why is everyone so against the NHS being privatised (genuine question) .... It's current format doesn't appear to work and like any business surely you have to look at what can be changed or done?!

 

[gigilouxx]

I'm not convinced that increasing a salary is going to make young people want to become nurses. The world has evolved so much that these types of roles aren't encouraged. Young people don't want to be be nurses, or teachers, or social workers. They want to be podcast hosts, travel bloggers, influencers.
Increasing a salary may help slightly, but it isn't the only answer.
I don't agree with the rhetoric that it's a calling, the government use that excuse to make it seem like it's your fault you're a nurse but surely there has to be some degree of calling?! I would never want to be a nurse and no amount of salary would change my mind on that.
Why is everyone so against the NHS being privatised (genuine question) .... It's current format doesn't appear to work and like any business surely you have to look at what can be changed or done?!

This is bang on, also the jobs you previously needed money for are evolving for more widespread recruitment. BA and Fly Emirates with their pilot training schemes for young adults, there are engineer apprenticeships etc and jobs that allow people to travel the world.

Mental Health is more widely recognised now and people are more open to the fact that nursing is mentally taxing, without the staff shortages etc, I know myself I couldn’t do it, I couldn’t see the end of someone’s life without being traumatised. No money could change that either

 

[struggs123]

I'm not convinced that increasing a salary is going to make young people want to become nurses. The world has evolved so much that these types of roles aren't encouraged. Young people don't want to be be nurses, or teachers, or social workers. They want to be podcast hosts, travel bloggers, influencers.
Increasing a salary may help slightly, but it isn't the only answer.
I don't agree with the rhetoric that it's a calling, the government use that excuse to make it seem like it's your fault you're a nurse but surely there has to be some degree of calling?! I would never want to be a nurse and no amount of salary would change my mind on that.
Why is everyone so against the NHS being privatised (genuine question) .... It's current format doesn't appear to work and like any business surely you have to look at what can be changed or done?!

Absolutely it isn't the only answer but it'd certainly help. You're only able to strike for certain things, pay being one of them, but they give the chance to highlight other issues. Yes you have to want to do it, but it is a job at the end of the day like any other- it's relied on the goodwill and passion of people for for too long (as many jobs do I know) with the well it's a calling so people will do it even if we treat them like crap. Its not solely about enticing young people in, but retaining and appealing to those already qualified who have left or are considering it. Many healthcare courses are actually oversubscribed, but it's keeping people that's the issue.

From a personal point of view privatisation would be fine for me. I expect as it is elsewhere that a healthcare job would come with insurance and if there's more competition ie different private providers I suspect there'd be better pay and more favoruable conditions. Thing is lots of people believe that free at point of use healthcare is a good thing and they don't want people who can't afford it to only have access to very very basic care but suffer on with other things as happens in dentistry. The other issue with privatisation alongside accessibility is when healthcare becomes a business things invariably change- profit becomes a driver and its less patient focused. That said I agree things are unsustainable as they are, a hybrid model as we see in many countries would probably be best.

 

[miss n thropy]

Why is everyone so against the NHS being privatised (genuine question) .... It's current format doesn't appear to work and like any business surely you have to look at what can be changed or done?!
[/QUOTE]

65.5% of all bankruptcies in the US last year were as a result of medical bills. As soon as you totally privatise a necessary service you are at the mercy of big companies who exist purely for profit. Big companies will then buy up the smaller ones and essentially competition then goes out of the window. Health insurers will go out of their way to find loopholes in your insurance so that they don’t have to pay. Competition is great for non essential services.

 

[Tui]

Aren’t you a little bit dramatic Honestly “betrayed” really?
Not a single country in the world were prepared despite virologists warning governments for years something like this is likely to happen.
Anyway this is what medical care workers are trained for.

Actually Singapore used the British model to prepare for a respiratory pandemic. We didn’t use our own model. Who fared better?
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Aren’t you a little bit dramatic Honestly “betrayed” really?
Not a single country in the world were prepared despite virologists warning governments for years something like this is likely to happen.
Anyway this is what medical care workers are trained for.

Also take it from someone who is actually medically trained that no, we aren’t trained to work in a critically under resourced health system hit by a once in a lifetime pandemic without sufficient personal protective equipment. What is your knowledge/experience to legitimise what you are saying? I have a feeling you don’t know what you are on about

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

Actually Singapore used the British model to prepare for a respiratory pandemic. We didn’t use our own model. Who fared better?
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Also take it from someone who is actually medically trained that no, we aren’t trained to work in a critically under resourced health system hit by a once in a lifetime pandemic without sufficient personal protective equipment. What is your knowledge/experience to legitimise what you are saying? I have a feeling you don’t know what you are on about

Ofcourse you think I talk crap. Am I in the medical field? No. Do I have lots of friend and family in the medical fields? Yes
I stand by what I said

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

Did you work in frontline yourself during the pandemic. Particularly ITU. I did. And yes we were betrayed we had inadequate and out of date PPE. Whoever said we were prepared and trained for it, we weren’t, nothing in uni covered a pandemic and nothing in mandatory training.It is not what we were trained for.

I was a frontline worker yes.
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I don't know why people want to disagree with me. Everybody I know said they had some training towards dealing with viral diseases. Obviously not on this scale but being a medic they are trained for situations like this.
I;m sorry your training was inadequate but I find that difficult to believe because even my GP, who I do not know on any personal level, told me this is what all their training is for when I asked if she was worried