Nurses striking

[Avenged7Fold]

I’m an ex nurse and would never go back because it’s just not nursing any more. I liked the hands on approach. Spending my day giving out meds and keyboard bashing and shouting for the healthcare assistant when a patient wants to go to the toilet is not my idea of nursing. My friend is an HCA and they do the bulk of the work, blood tests, taking observations, feeding, washing, dressings etc. They aren’t striking, if they did the NHS would fall apart.
Nurses are vital, but they aren’t in the real world if they think they are going to get 16 percent.
The NHS needs a massive overhaul starting with nurses training going back to basics, and stop relying on the overworked and poorly paid HCAs
Rant over

 

[Sickofinstacrap]

I agree with this so much. Im not a nurse or health care but do work on wards at times, and it really is the health cares that do most of the work with the patients. In one departmebt ive worked at it was onmy the health care that were canular trained,i sometimes fail to see what nurses do other then hand out meds.

I can tell you what I do
I give life saving medication that has to be drawn up to the decimal point and work out how to dilute it/give it. Be aware of current blood results and other meds incase it contradicts the need for blend. Double check all doses. Repeat this maybe 10 -15 times a shift. Manage the unit and my own patient work load, ensure all obs are done, ensure doctors are aware of any obs that are abnormal, do what I can do help fix the obs such as give analgesia, get them something to drink, ask the doctor to prescribe more fluids, hang them fluids, then recheck the obs. Update the family while I do all of this. Ensure everything is documented, move onto the next patient and repeat. I work in a&e so I do this while the managing the unit, when the triage Que starts to build up I triage up to 20 patients an hour, while managing the unit and attending to patients I was looking after earlier. Now imagine doing this and the phone starts ringing, it’s the matrons asking me to investigate incidents or speak to pharmacy/the ward/attend a meeting. Phone rings again it’s a parent who wants to change their apt or they couldn’t get prescribed med anywhere, this is now something I have to fix. But my patients in the cubicles are going to breach (be in a&e for longer the 4 hours so to meet target need to be moved to the ward) I need to phone the ward to see if their ready, they will be in 5mins, great plenty of time to sort this prescription call them back and arrange for them to pick it up. Move the patient to the ward, come back down, start breaks, triage Que is now on 20 people, it’s 10am. It’s me and one other nurse and if I’m lucky and blessed a health care assistant. That is my life every day I go to work. I think that’s should allow me to earn enough to put on my heating thank you very much
Also forgot to mention the barrage of abuse I will get while trying to do all these jobs, the ‘I pay your wages’ crowd, the ‘I’ve been here for 20 mins with a sore throat you need to get me a doctor now’ crowd. I cry most days in work now. This isn’t what I signed up and left my home country for

 

[anotheronebitesthedust.1]

Don’t support the strikes at all. Nurses know what he pay is before even entering the workforce.
They are putting public health at risk.
Does the NHS in general need a rethink? Probably yes but this isn’t it and people are already turning on them.
If I had an operation cancelled due to the strikes I’d be fuming.
A lot of nurses had also been bullied into “supporting” the strikes.

Absolute bollocks and nothing anybody says will change my mind. They are better paid than most people

You do realise it’s not just about pay . It’s the protection of the nhs too , improving staff conditions and being understaffed . If we were all greedy and wanted more money , Myself and other nurses could easily hand our notice in tomorrow and join an agency and be on £40/£50 a hour and the nhs would be screwed with nobody to work for them and then it would all go privatised and the general public would realise they were better off before

 

[user123498765]

Imagine you've been training for 3 years. You've gotten yourself in a load of debt. You've completed 2,300 hours of free labour Then you finally get your pin, which you have to pay £120 for yearly, along with £17 a month to be in a union just to cover your back. You go onto one of your first shifts and staff haven't turned up. The "safe numbers" are 12 but you've only got 8, another ward is even lower so they have to ask for one of your staff too. So now you're on 7. You've got two 2-1's, so that's 4 staff gone. Now you just have 3 people to supervise an entire ward. You know this is dangerous but these are the conditions everyone is used to now so you're basically told to put up and shut up. You probably have 3 or 4 agency staff in who are getting paid triple, with nowhere near the same amount of responsibility. You sit in the office because you've had several incidents and now you've got to get all the paperwork done, as the responsibility lies on you, the nurse, not any other staff. You know your pin has been on the line all shift and, in turn, your liberty. You have to stay behind 3 hours because a nurse has called in sick, and you have paperwork to complete anyway. It's now been a 15 hour shift and you could of picked up more for a shift in Lidl with nowhere near the same amount of responsibility on your shoulders or debt behind you. That's why nurses are striking. Everyday is a battlefield. Everyday patient safety is at risk and everyday that responsibility lies on our shoulders.

 

[user123498765]

As a nurse, I definitely support the strikes. I am shocked by some of the posts on here, the government want us all to turn against each other when they are the ones to blame for this catastrophic situation. I have a masters degree, I have so much responsibility every shift and not only do I not have the pay to reflect this, but I am striking for patient safety and the unsafe staffing levels as well. All staff are the backbone of the NHS. We are losing registered nurses faster than ever, nursing degree applications are already down and with stagnant pay on the cards again the current nurse shortage will lead to the NHS not being viable, dismantled, and sold off to private US companies

 

[Yel]

Nurse interviewed on the radio this morning was saying her rent was £1600 and she took home £2200.

Where governments have really failed over the last few decades is to stop house prices and rents from going out of control. They're now at criminal levels. And there's no reason for them to be this high! Speculation and greed is causing untold missery.

So many problems trace back to housing.

 

[DanaScully]

I stand in solidarity with all those striking for better pay and/or conditions. When employers won't listen or negotiate, it's crucial the employees are willing to stand united and be willing to withdraw their labour en masse.

This is particularly important in private companies where staff pay increases are insultingly low but shareholders and CEOs are getting six figure bonuses.

 

[Emsie]

Just to put into comparison if our wages should match the cost of living energy wise , we should be on 62k a year , if it Matches food costs a year we should be on 37k a year , if it matches fuel costs we should be on 39k a year

yes it may seem we are on a lot but it doesn’t reflect the cost of living goimg Up , it’s the same for any job out there who thinks pay should be increased . You can’t increase all the bills and costs of living but not have our wages go up to reflect . Since 2010, we have had a pay cut of 8% so no I don’t think it’s cheeky to ask for a rise Of 4%

But no one's pay has gone up with the cost of living crisis... This is the bit I don't get.
Everyone works hard and everyone believes they should be paid more.
I don't know anyone who has had a pay rise in line with inflation. We're all struggling not just nurses

 

[unidentified]

I am a midwife and 100% in favour of the strikes. 8 years qualified and I no longer work in a contract. I quit to do agency and another flexi job away from the NHS. Morally I don’t agree with what I’m doing however I feel a million times better in myself and I had to prioritise that. I didn’t realise just how unwell I was. The working conditions are horrific and although people think HCAs do all the care (and god they work bloody hard and are grossly underpaid) they don’t have the responsibility that a nurse/midwife does. They’re not risking their registration every shift (a registration we have to pay for every year). Morale is so low and people (like myself) are leaving constantly which doesn’t help the problem however doing agency keeps me in the profession. I don’t work anywhere near as much and can handle the shit easier. Sunday I worked 15 hours with no break. Left two hours late. I couldn’t just leave. Someone came in labouring and there was no one to look after her. Was I at the peak? No. Could something have easily been missed/overseen because I was so exhausted? Absolutely! People are talking about the strikes putting people at risk but people are being put at risk every day because of what has been left of the workforce.

Also, with nursing the majority are band 5’s. Look at their pay. The government are trying to make out they’re paid a lot more than they actually are. That shows what they care about.

 

[maccamacc]

Christ almighty what a depressing thread packed full of ignorant takes.

You are all missing the point entirely.

Nursing is an international profession. You can work wherever. Once the UK was a destination where nurses came to work and live. Now they don’t, leave and many British Nurses looking to leave.

If Nurses pay does not increase to compensate what has essentially been a pay cut since 2010 they will continue to leave in droves.

The NHS generally has been deliberately run into the ground to pave the way for privatisation which is already happening. Where I work, parts of the NHS can’t provide the services needed so private provision is being contracted.

You simply do not have a health service if you don’t have registered nursing staff.

I have been a nurse for 25yrs and was never in a union but joined in 2018 after Jeremy Hunt lied to NHS staff about pay.

I appreciate you are all just chatting your opinions here but trust me when I say Nurses are so done with NHS conditions and pay we will 100% withdraw labour even if the public turn against us.

I don't agree with the strikes though as I believe it is a co-ordinated attempt by socialist union bosses to disrupt and breakdown traditional society (and simultaneously keep themselves relevant )

This is utterly ridiculous. Unions consist of members who expect them to represent them.

Most of us are angry at “union bosses” for not taking action sooner, especially the RCN.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

Don’t support the strikes at all. Nurses know what he pay is before even entering the workforce.
They are putting public health at risk.
Does the NHS in general need a rethink? Probably yes but this isn’t it and people are already turning on them.
If I had an operation cancelled due to the strikes I’d be fuming.
A lot of nurses had also been bullied into “supporting” the strikes.

Absolute bollocks and nothing anybody says will change my mind. They are better paid than most people

 

[Emsie]

I was making reference to saying nurses aren’t badly paid
Nurses alongside every other job profession are in the same boat , nobody’s wages are going up to reflect cost of living . Everyone is struggling , some have to look for other jobs because they can’t afford to drive every day for their job I.E community nurses . Having to pick up extra shifts losing out on family time
So why are we made out to be the bad guys and got To breaking point and said look enough is enough we are balloting and striking so we can be heard

You're not the bad guys. You can strike.
I'm saying that nurses aren't badly paid. That's it.
Average salary in the UK is about 27k. Average nurses salary is about 33k.
Do I think you should be paid more. Absolutely.
Do I think I should be paid more. Absolutely. I work hard too.
I guess I'm fed up with the strapline of nurses work soooo hard. You do. Everyone does.
It's not personal.

 

[Jen667]

I don't know anyone that doesn't support the strike. My sister in law is a nurse at one of the major London hospitals, and the only reason she can survive is because she still lives at home and her parents charge her minimal rent. She's late 20s and zero chance of being able to live independently on her pay unless she takes a second job which, understandably, she's not keen to do given that she works in intensive care, her job is full on and due to staff shortages she often puts in a 60 hour week.

 

[miss n thropy]

The NHS has been deliberately underfunded for years to give the government the excuse it needs to sell more off to private companies which they either have shares or interest in, or from whom they receive donations. I know nurses who qualify for universal credit.

The figures the government quote regarding the costs of increasing pay are never correct. For a start, they recoup a percentage of the increase immediately as taxes.

I support all the strikers and the nurses have made a difficult decision to strike.

As for the argument someone made that strikes are somehow engineered by union bosses, it’s ludicrous, they follow the wishes of their members after a ballot. Every working person in this country, whether or not they were a member of a union themselves, has benefitted from union actions. Unions won many workers rights which are now enshrined in law, paid maternity leave being one for example. The only bargaining chip workers have is withdrawal of labour.

 

[I_Like_Tractors]

I personally think the whole pay structure of the NHS needs looking into.

What concerns me about Nurses pay is that it’s not just going be a pay increase FOR nurses…..
Most of our nurses are band 5 or 6 on the pay scale….if the nurses get the pay rise they deserve, in effect so will every bugger else at band 5 / band 6 and above…….then all those ‘managers’ of managers and pen pushers will all get a pay rise and in effect, those who do the least and make all the shit decisions that negatively affect the NHS will just get richer…..
Nurses, CSW’s, HCA, domestics, receptionists, porters etc should all be paid separately from the current banding pay scale…..

I agree that if there is a pay deal it should be for those who really need it, e.g band 6 and below. Nurses, HCAs etc do an absolutely high pressured job with so much responsibility that is not reflected in their pay.

But - I do not agree with the daily mail narrative that everyone who doesn't work frontline is essentially not needed and a slacker/pen pusher sitting about making shit decisions and giving the clinical staff the middle finger.

I work in an office based service improvement role in the health service and we absolutely work hard and care about our jobs, making the right decisions and doing the right things. Our conversations on decision making always come back to doing the right thing with the taxpayers money.

Without office and admin staff nothing would get organised, funded, contracted, scheduled etc.

Anyway on topic, I absolutely support the nurses and paramedics right to strike, just like I do the postal and rail workers, I just don't understand why Rishi won't even speak to them or try to negotiate.

 

[xcyber]

Right. I want to rant a little. I’ve worked in the NHS for over a decade and honestly it’s a shit show. However, the thing I really have an issue with is this narrative that nurses or doctors OWE the general public their services for whatever pay they receive. All the stupid Daily Mail commenters harping on about ‘how heartless it is to strike and leave patients dying’. No, it fucking isn’t the responsibility of nurses or doctors to give their lives up for patients. It’s not heartless to want to be paid a decent amount for a job that honestly is gruelling and largely thankless. Surely, the fact that the thought of not having nurses or doctors for one day at work is so catastrophic should demonstrate how important their jobs are and in itself justify adequate pay. At the end of the day it’s still a job and people do jobs for money to be able to afford to live not out of the goodness of their hearts, it’s not charity work. I hate the emotional blackmail, like honestly fuck off. Anyway, I genuinely wish I’d gone into finance or worked for a bank. I’m ragey tonight.

 

[Tui]

To be honest there is little comparison between a retail worker and a nurse. Nurses are degree educated, skilled professionals, and the pay structure absolutely does not reflect the diversity of the modern nursing profession and the complexity of modern medical practice. Nurses are also a captive workforce, there are few opportunities to work as a nurse outside of the NHS, although they exist they are limited and not comparable to NHS work. Ultimately the government needs nurses, doctors, paramedics etc and needs to be prepared to pay for them and if those professional groups feel they are not being paid properly then the pay of other groups like retail workers is totally irrelevant.
Working conditions for NHS staff are absolutely fucking awful right now and if you haven’t experienced it yourself I honestly don’t think many can imagine it. Retail work is grim too but it just does not compare and ultimately if you don’t like working for one company you can leave but the NHS is shit everywhere. Changing those conditions is not going to happen overnight whereas pay *restoration* could, because what nurses are asking for is effectively pay restoration for 10-12 years of pay degradation. Who is going to want to be a nurse right now? Hospitals are dangerous places to be.

 

[ChrisInghamsBeanie]

Two very short sighted but not uncommon attitudes that will always baffle me;

“I have a crappy job and put up with it, why don’t they put up with it if I do?”

“well they chose this career, they should just leave if they don’t like it”

there’s just so much… wrong with it. Because a crab/bucket mentality hurts everyone? Because we aren’t in the Middle Ages and should be allowed to expect basic, decent working conditions and stand ground if these aren’t being met.

Speaking as a former nurse, there's definitely an element of seeing it as "women's work" and expecting therefore that's its really just cheap labour and what are they upset about.

If nursing was (or traditionally had been) dominated by men but required the same degree, years of ongoing medical training, the unsocial hours and pure physicality I guarantee it'd pay 3 times what it does.

 

[NaeDebates]

The nurses strike in particular I haven't supported because I think the language used has been emotionally blackmailing and rude "I could earn more in Aldi" as if working in Aldi is beneath them and I've seen these attitudes played out on this thread.

The fact that NHS staff could earn the same/more in Aldi is a sad reflection on this country though - and I’m not saying that because I (not a nurse, but a healthcare professional working in the NHS) think I’m any better than anyone working in Aldi, I’m not. NHS staff are not “above” those working in Aldi, but the fact is that we go to uni for multiple years, take on huge amounts of debt, continue to pay to continue our professional registration and then shoulder massive responsibility for people’s lives so it is in no way comparable to working in Aldi. As a country, we should want to attract the absolute best and brightest into the NHS to care for our population and we can’t do that when you can earn the same/more in a supermarket without spending years training and saddling yourself with debt - there has to be a difference for us to effectively recruit and retain staff and pay them in a way that reflects their level of training and responsibility not just because we think we’re above working in Aldi!

 

[bubbadabut]

I feel sorry for all those who will be sat in pain in a hospital bed, or deteriorating whilst this political stunt goes on.

What do you expect them to do? The government won't even come to the table to negotiate. The union offered to suspend the last lot of strikes if the government agreed to talk. They rejected the offer. Have you any idea what the NHS is like now? In my area, most hospital referrals have a waiting time of at least a year. A year just to see a specialist! Minimum 12 hour waits in A&E. My friends grandad fell down the stairs last month. By the time the ambulance arrived, 14 hours later, he was dead. This isn't just a winter crisis, this is the NHS, full stop. One of my children has a condition which would require a category 1/2 ambulance response should anything happen. This is a first world country. We should not even be worrying that an ambulance may not arrive until an hour or more after an emergency call is made.

It will only get worse if pay, conditions, retention and recruitment are not improved. Yes, people will most likely die as a result of the strikes. But the government is happy with that because they'll lay the blame, as ever, at the feet of the medical professionals. The other devolved nation governments have managed it, why not ours? The strikes will continue, more people will die because the government is hell bent on painting the nurses out to be the bad guys. The government always has money to throw around - to bail out banks because of their preposterous budget, for their backhanders and cronies, for overseas wars, for furlough, the billions on HS2, but they won't even come to the table and discuss the NHS crisis - something that affects every single person in this country (except them of course, with their private health care).

They want the NHS to fail, and they want the medical professionals to be vilified. They have constantly used the media to whip up animosity amongst the public, and I love that people aren't falling for it this time.

I would say the next election can't come soon enough. Wes Streeting is not the man for the job,but anything is better than the current lot.