In fairness people paying for cancer treatments are sometimes paying for extraordinarily expensive drugs which might add a few weeks lifespan if anything and it’s judged not cost effective to use public funds for drugs like that. It’s harsh but the pot has to get divided up somehow and unless the evidence supports it then the drugs don’t get funded.
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I've just been going through this with my mum, who is 78. She has multiple health conditions and is in care (on the same road as where I live). She was in and out of hospital most of last year with infections, her quality of life just getting worse and worse. On top of everything else, she had developed a heart condition, which required a pacemaker. On balance, we'd agreed (with mum's agreement) to minimize any interventions, as she was finding the repeat hospital admissions and invasive procedures increasingly distressing. However, in early December, she had an 'abdominal' crisis and was on the point of dying. She pulled through the emergency and it was then agreed that if she did have a pacemaker, it would help markedly with her other conditions. The heart thing had been underlying for quite some time. So, she had it done and is recovering- her first ever surgery, actually. The nurses'/ transport strikes didn't affect things too much and I'm so grateful for the good care she had. The pacemaker was really done as a palliative measure, to relieve her other symptoms and, so far, it seems to have been worth it, although we are not expecting miracles.
My mum probably would not fare well with anything more invasive and probably wouldn't want it. Her sister is 80, also with various health conditions but she and her husband have a zest for life and I would argue that they have every right to enjoy it for as long as they can. They've certainly contributed enough, as did my mum. My aunt's 87 year old friend had recent abdominal surgery and would put many 60 years olds to shame with her community involvement and active lifestyle. I have another 80 year old friend (much older than me) who has so much to offer. I'm friendly with another 81 year old who has been offered a kidney transplant. She wasn't going to have it because she felt it should be prioritized for a younger person. However, she is still very active, again, with her family and in her community.
In summary, I think it should be a case-by-case analysis, in terms of how much to intervene with an older person. One 80 year old can be very unlike another, in terms of disposition and well-being. I see some poor, dementia-riddled souls in mum's care home and it is, eventually a mercy when they die. In my late dad's case 14 years ago (stroke survivor/ COPD), the clinicians did over-intervene and prolonged the final year of his life unnecessarily. He had a horrible death. With the pressures of the NHS as it is, there might not necessarily be the time to assess a person holistically. Life, in itself, isn't 'fair' and younger people die despite the very best of interventions. There's never going to be a perfect solution but, having seen the apocalyptic scenes in our local A & E multiple times and what the nursing staff endure, I fully support the nurses' strike. Most of the time I have been there, it has often been younger people filling the corridors and cubicles, many off their heads on drink and drugs. What do we do about those?
My mum probably would not fare well with anything more invasive and probably wouldn't want it. Her sister is 80, also with various health conditions but she and her husband have a zest for life and I would argue that they have every right to enjoy it for as long as they can. They've certainly contributed enough, as did my mum. My aunt's 87 year old friend had recent abdominal surgery and would put many 60 years olds to shame with her community involvement and active lifestyle. I have another 80 year old friend (much older than me) who has so much to offer. I'm friendly with another 81 year old who has been offered a kidney transplant. She wasn't going to have it because she felt it should be prioritized for a younger person. However, she is still very active, again, with her family and in her community.
In summary, I think it should be a case-by-case analysis, in terms of how much to intervene with an older person. One 80 year old can be very unlike another, in terms of disposition and well-being. I see some poor, dementia-riddled souls in mum's care home and it is, eventually a mercy when they die. In my late dad's case 14 years ago (stroke survivor/ COPD), the clinicians did over-intervene and prolonged the final year of his life unnecessarily. He had a horrible death. With the pressures of the NHS as it is, there might not necessarily be the time to assess a person holistically. Life, in itself, isn't 'fair' and younger people die despite the very best of interventions. There's never going to be a perfect solution but, having seen the apocalyptic scenes in our local A & E multiple times and what the nursing staff endure, I fully support the nurses' strike. Most of the time I have been there, it has often been younger people filling the corridors and cubicles, many off their heads on drink and drugs. What do we do about those?
That's not always the case. My friend has pretty much gotten rid of the cancer she was riddled with. She shouldn't be paying for her treatment. It's insane.
I actually think we should have a properly funded health service so that everyone can get the treatment they require, but if things are being prioritised it should be cancer treatment (or treatment of any terminal illess) over hip or shoulder replacements.
My opinion is give them what they want, majority of health care professionals are over worked and underpaid! I would cap it though so the top brass and pencil pushers don't get an increase!
Infact reduce their wages to pay the front line staff more.
It really narks me that those working so hard to save lives and care for our loved ones when they need it most don't get the pay or recognition they deserve.
During covid people were clapping and thanking the NHS but it means bugger all unless we are going to give them what they deserve.
I have often thought about going into nursing but there is no incentive anymore. I get paid more by the government (local authority) to sit in a boring office 5 days a week with very little to do, we have had all our main duties taken off us in a stream lining initiative but still receive a decent wage, no sign of a restructure even though we have too many staff for the duties we still have to do and decent holidays and pension scheme. I'd be a fool to leave that to be in the position nurses are in right now (I have to add I would LOVE all my old duties back and to be run off my feet, the job I am in is not the job I applied for anymore).
Infact reduce their wages to pay the front line staff more.
It really narks me that those working so hard to save lives and care for our loved ones when they need it most don't get the pay or recognition they deserve.
During covid people were clapping and thanking the NHS but it means bugger all unless we are going to give them what they deserve.
I have often thought about going into nursing but there is no incentive anymore. I get paid more by the government (local authority) to sit in a boring office 5 days a week with very little to do, we have had all our main duties taken off us in a stream lining initiative but still receive a decent wage, no sign of a restructure even though we have too many staff for the duties we still have to do and decent holidays and pension scheme. I'd be a fool to leave that to be in the position nurses are in right now (I have to add I would LOVE all my old duties back and to be run off my feet, the job I am in is not the job I applied for anymore).
peripheral services help address antisocial behaviour like the drunken behaviour you’re describing.
but… it’s been cut.
mental health services and intervention? Cut. So it’s up to police and ambulance services to deal with crisis which, let’s face it, if proper care had been in place in the initial stages, probably wouldn’t have happened.
alcoholism and drug abuse.. these are linked to poverty, abuse in childhood and mental health problems. None of these are properly funded or supported. and so it falls downstream to the NHS to deal with, often with limited impact. Trying to treat alcoholism is vastly more expensive than if social services had been equipped to intervene during child abuse (as a hypothetical example).
the NHS so frequently has to respond to issues that have happened because of failures much earlier on. There’s no point railing at the NHS for not being able to resolve it - far better use of energy to ask how to tackle the problems before they escalate and end up with an individual going anywhere near a hospital.
W
Wow. The system is so backwards.
I actually have no complaints about personal experience of any NHS service, especially our GP who is fantastic!
I started having a few 'lady issues' in October, spoke to GP who got me referred for a scan which I had just before Christmas and I already have my results and a consultant appointment later this month which I think is outstanding.
But I know people who have waited months or years for surgery and treatment which is awful, my uncle was diagnosed with cancer and it took that long for his treatment and surgery that his cancer spread and he now needs more intense treatment and a bigger surgery than he originally needed.
I don't disagree at all. I'm not 'railing at the NHS', and apologize if it came across that way. I have enormous gratitude for the work they are doing and fully support what you are saying. I have background in mental health and health psychology. Many of these issues are systemic and if only the idiots at the top could grasp that prevention is better than 'cure'. That takes a more proactive approach than a retroactive one (which often involves hastily 'patching things up'). Sadly, investments in longer-term approaches are not popular with senior politicians and business leaders/ decision makers. The former are chasing votes, the latter, profit. Sometimes both.
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oh no sorry, I didn’t mean you personally railing at it - I meant in a general sense
In these cases it’s usual to get them home and a care package in place for palliative care. Unfortunately social care is in such a staffing crisis that there aren’t enough home carers to go round. This is why hospitals are overflowing with people who don’t need critical care but aren’t able to be discharged.
I’ve looked after people at home on palliative care. As soon as they take a turn for the worse, relative/friends etc are demanding an ambulance and hospital admission. I’ve had to take them to one side and explain that nothing more can be done. We make sure they are comfortable and not in pain and all their immediate needs are being met.
I’m sorry this wasn’t the case for your loved one
That was the nightmare we had, we couldn’t get the district nurses out they were so busy, and the social care issue is definitely causing bed blocking as well. Aw it’s just an absolute abyss isn’t it
mostly down to political decisions though. They throw money at the problem, to score political points. Not out of genuine desire to improve.
I’m so sorry
It is an abyss and unless things change drastically I can’t see how it’s going to get better.
Don't know if anyone read a long read article in The Guardian today from the pov of a health care assistant but it is pretty terrifying
I’ve just read it and now I’m in tears. I feel their frustration and disappointment.
What is the title of the article please? I wonder if it's available online.
Absolutely they should. I’m a health worker and I work in supporting individuals with complex disabilities. We are so exhausted after the effects of Covid-19. We literally were left in homes with patients because nurses wouldn’t enter. Our responsibilities are ten fold what they used to be. We are changing PEG sites and doing complex things that some nurses are not comfortable in doing. When our residents go into hospital it’s us that go in and do 12hr 1-1 shifts to support the individuals as the nurses are too stretched. We are the nurses yet if we went on strike we would be sacked. Our pay is at the bottom of the pile and it really doesn’t reflect our responsibilities/working hours/work load. The sacrifices we make, nobody is fighting for us. If we all walked out tomorrow (everyone working in health & social care) then all those people would be put into hospital (as they all need medication and quite often complex care to survive). The hospitals would collapse. So yeah, if nurses can strike then I’m all for them. We don’t have a pin and we aren’t registered yet it’s nurses that come out to train us in the jobs we do every day. The ambulances are striking, this meant we had to do CPR in work as we had a choking incident. We had to administer oxygen and a suction machine - the paramedic arrived and said we’d done everything be would of done and then he pretty much left. All for £10 odd an hour 
it’s buggered - the whole system.
it’s buggered - the whole system.The only people for whom it's illegal to strike are police and armed forces, technically as long as correct process was followed it is possible that care works for the union who ran the ballot could strike. Its a lot harder because most are different private providers, there isn't a common employer so its much harder (if not impossible) to coordinate.Absolutely they should. I’m a health worker and I work in supporting individuals with complex disabilities. We are so exhausted after the effects of Covid-19. We literally were left in homes with patients because nurses wouldn’t enter. Our responsibilities are ten fold what they used to be. We are changing PEG sites and doing complex things that some nurses are not comfortable in doing. When our residents go into hospital it’s us that go in and do 12hr 1-1 shifts to support the individuals as the nurses are too stretched. We are the nurses yet if we went on strike we would be sacked. Our pay is at the bottom of the pile and it really doesn’t reflect our responsibilities/working hours/work load. The sacrifices we make, nobody is fighting for us. If we all walked out tomorrow (everyone working in health & social care) then all those people would be put into hospital (as they all need medication and quite often complex care to survive). The hospitals would collapse. So yeah, if nurses can strike then I’m all for them. We don’t have a pin and we aren’t registered yet it’s nurses that come out to train us in the jobs we do every day. The ambulances are striking, this meant we had to do CPR in work as we had a choking incident. We had to administer oxygen and a suction machine - the paramedic arrived and said we’d done everything be would of done and then he pretty much left. All for £10 odd an hour
It is criminal how low the pay is for carers though, both in paid employment and those caring for loved ones. It's horrible that such an important and challenging role- both physically and mentally- isn't valued by society as a whole; even though the work is invaluable in reality and enhances the lives of those who recieve care. I would support any sort of pressure or push for better pay and conditions for you all, its a disgrace currently.
Thank you for all you do.