Noah Donohoe #2 still no answers

[Justherefortittle]

I can’t help going back and forth to earlier talk and speculating - the PSNI handling of the whole thing from start has been a shambles.

They were also slow to organise searches - but should have had all that information

it was volunteers who went out looking long before any formal search was launched
The property the storm drain is attached to - occupants were hostile to searcg
The volunteers were pulled out from the area the day before he was found

all this added to the conspiracy

 

[Comewhinewithme]

Well Donal is clearly confused because he said it’s impossible someone of Noah’s size could lift it, that’s why I asked could he fit through the bars.

The entire army are convinced Noah or anyone for that matter couldn't lift it. Its always been that narrative, I did try and say before but you know how it goes
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I can’t help going back and forth to earlier talk and speculating - the PSNI handling of the whole thing from start has been a shambles.

They were also slow to organise searches - but should have had all that information

it was volunteers who went out looking long before any formal search was launched
The property the storm drain is attached to - occupants were hostile to searcg
The volunteers were pulled out from the area the day before he was found

all this added to the conspiracy

It definitely did. Though didn't they have police straight out to the cavehill? And at that point treated it as a missing child/runaway, probably at his mates. Same with Matthew, this isn't good enough of course if a parent says it's out of character they need to immediately launch an official search.

 

[Shimmering]

Is there a wiki or anything on the case which lays out all that is known? If so I need to read it.

 

[Twistedpants]

There are so many questions with no answers in this case.
One question I have is why was he cremated? If my child died in those strange circumstances I don't think I'd have them cremated or I'd hope someone close to me would encourage a burial as i undoubtedly wouldnt be thinking straight. If there was still a body to exhume then questions around drugs, assaults etc could maybe be answered.

 

[Comewhinewithme]

Is there a wiki or anything on the case which lays out all that is known? If so I need to read it.

No wiki on here as far as I know, twitter has the timeline pinned or just a Google search.
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There are so many questions with no answers in this case.
One question I have is why was he cremated? If my child died in those strange circumstances I don't think I'd have them cremated or I'd hope someone close to me would encourage a burial as i undoubtedly wouldnt be thinking straight. If there was still a body to exhume then questions around drugs, assaults etc could maybe be answered.

Many have said this too, he was cremated very quickly.
Main reason, Noah was afraid of the dark to the point fiona didn't want him buried underground, understandable.
Though I'd have been calling for a 2nd PM given that she said it was extremely rushed.

 

[Griftymcgriftface]

I’m guessing it was only made public on the Monday afternoon/evening but I wasn’t glued to the news 24/7 at that time so I don’t know if I would I had noticed if it hadn’t been announced before that because I wasn’t checking fb flat out at that time. What is the normal timescale between a report and being made public? I’ve no idea.

just watching the murder in the badlands thing about Inga (I haven’t watched the rest) and it looks like evidence didn’t get handled correctly at all there as well.

Whatever Noah did or didn’t do or had done to him it does look like there have been procedural duck ups. But the thing is that Byrne needs to go.

 

[Comewhinewithme]

I went to look for that picture I was talking about, it was on Fionas page before, now all trace has gone, no matter where you look. I seen it recently in a video one of the army had made for twitter and again, can't find it now. Not for any particular reason only now I think I'm losing my marbles
Does anyone know the one I mean?

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I don’t think you really need a physical body to do further testing as long as you have all the samples you need from him (which is a bit weird when you think about it!) I used to think this about cremation (what if you need the body!) but I don’t think it’s necessary as long as you have retained evidence

 

[monga]

I thought they did very little forensically? She said they didn’t even test the water in his lungs to see if it came from the drain.

 

[Twistedpants]

I thought they did very little forensically? She said they didn’t even test the water in his lungs to see if it came from the drain.

Yeah that's right. It's like they had already decided no foul play, end of story. That's the bit that has always baffled me and makes me think something is being covered up but what? We may never know.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

If they retained samples they can test those any time. Might be why the cremation wasn’t a concern.

can you test the water to see where it came from? It’s just water what test would you do?

 

[BigMavis]

I don't think they routinely test water in drowning victims. They can and do to determine the site of drowning but I presume they didn't feel it was necessary. I wouldn't put that down to incompetence but it looks it now
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If they retained samples they can test those any time. Might be why the cremation wasn’t a concern.

can you test the water to see where it came from? It’s just water what test would you do?

Yes. Microflora or something would determine stuff. I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[monga]

If they retained samples they can test those any time. Might be why the cremation wasn’t a concern.

can you test the water to see where it came from? It’s just water what test would you do?

You certainly can, I thought it was standard procedure…There were rumours he was drowned in a bath and placed in the drain those samples would’ve ruled out either one.

 

[Comewhinewithme]

If they retained samples they can test those any time. Might be why the cremation wasn’t a concern.

can you test the water to see where it came from? It’s just water what test would you do?

Fiona wanted the water compared in the drain to that in his lungs, all in the aftermath of course as she wasn't happy with the PM plus the rumours had started that he was held in a house by loyalists and drowned in a bath. So obviously that's in her head since then.
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You certainly can, I thought it was standard procedure…There were rumours he was drowned in a bath and placed in the drain those samples would’ve ruled out either one.

Posted same time!

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

So you’re saying she suggested that they test to see whether water is from the cleansed drinking water system (ie bath / household water) or natural source in the drain (rain/ river/ sea) ? That’s standard in drowning victims found in a body of water? Surely not?

 

[BigMavis]

Yeah. I dunno. Is it standard? Possibly in a situation like this, not so much for someone who got into difficulty in a swimming pool.
Think about the bath rumour. Rumours start somewhere, in someone's head or someone who was present. If you had drowned someone in a bath and hid the body in a drain would you tell someone or take it to the grave.

 

[Comewhinewithme]

Quick search one thing they test for is whether submerging occurred before or after death. So you'd like to assume that was done to rule out being placed in the drain dead.
Did see anything regarding taking samples, though was just a quick look.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I was thinking under normal circs if ie you found a body in a swimming pool/ washed up in the sea/ in a river it wouldn’t be standard to test to see whether they had drowned elsewhere and then been dumped!? Unless there were or injuries indicating the person had been held down or similar, maybe .

Yes true re rumours. It seems a bit bizarre to say the least, I can’t imagine there could be anything in them!
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Quick search one thing they test for is whether submerging occurred before or after death. So you'd like to assume that was done to rule out being placed in the drain dead.
Did see anything regarding taking samples, though was just a quick look.

That makes sense but wouldn’t be a test of the water itself I don’t think?

 

[Comewhinewithme]

Yeah. I dunno. Is it standard? Possibly in a situation like this, not so much for someone who got into difficulty in a swimming pool.
Think about the bath rumour. Rumours start somewhere, in someone's head or someone who was present. If you had drowned someone in a bath and hid the body in a drain would you tell someone or take it to the grave.

I'd like to think while some members of the psni are corrupt someone in this case has integrity and a conscience not to cover a child's death, whether that be a person in the lab, not the coroner, or someone in a task room.
I know where I am with the case, with the new information.

 

[BigMavis]

Quick search one thing they test for is whether submerging occurred before or after death. So you'd like to assume that was done to rule out being placed in the drain dead.
Did see anything regarding taking samples, though was just a quick look.

Cause of death was drowning. The question is where?