Narcissistic and toxic parents #2

not_influenced · Jun 17, 2024

testingonetwothreefoiur said:
Does anyone have experience with a covert narcissistic mother?

I'm beginning to think that's what my mother is. I've been told all my life how lovely, sweet, kind, "typical mammy" my mother is. She is obsessed by status and the image of things - she loves to tell me what girls I went to school with literally 20+ years ago are up to, who got married, who had a baby, who has prestigious job somewhere, etc. How brilliant my cousins are. What my doctor sister is up to. All without ever expressing an iota of interest in me and my life, or even knowing the very basics - what I do in my job, who my friends are, what my interests are.

My family is complicated by an older sibling's illness, he has a severe debilitating mental health disorder with psychosis, all of which came to fruition when we were teenagers in a really traumatic way. Looking back now I can see how traumatized I was, but my mother would blame me at the time for being an angry, moody teen, who "didn't want any help" until I basically fled as soon as I could after school and built my life abroad. Since then I've been accidentally (or maybe not) low contact with my mother but I'm also realising she very rarely called, NEVER visited me in college or post college in the various cities I lived in, it was like an "out of sight out of mind" thing while she became enmeshed with my younger sister, who is a doctor now and provides her with so much supply.

Said sister was a bridemaid at my wedding a few years ago, and it struck me how she talks about my mother as if she's talking about an entirely different person to the woman I call my mother. She talked about how "amazing" my mother was, how we "had to" include my mother in the dress shopping, hen, etc, how *excited* my mother was about the wedding. Meanwhile, my mother barely congratulated me on getting engaged, asked no questions about the wedding and only criticized the information she did get E.G she complained relentlessly about our decision to not get married in a church despite neither of us being religious, etc. My mother called MY SISTER while we were dress shopping to wish us a good day, instead of me.

So I have this mother who is deeply enmeshed with the sibling that is most similar to her, to the point of knowing who she is dating, how stressed her job is making her, what she had for breakfast, etc. Another sibling who is in her full-time care as he is now special needs. And then me - the child she never calls, never texts, knows nothing but the basics about, loves to judge, criticize and I have to keep on an information diet because any personal information she gets will be gossiped about. Who cared more about her siblings enjoying my wedding than the well-being of me, her actual daughter.

And who loves to tell all her relatives how "independent" I am.

What do we call a mother like this? Can anyone relate?

Wow wow wow wow WOW. I read your first paragraph and thought god that sounds like me, then as I continued to read I kept bobbing my head. The resemblance to my life and family situation is remarkable. I've said in a previous comment I have had to remark to my sibling that we do not have the same parents as when we speak, it is as though we are speaking about completely different people.

Parents mind and siblings his kids. They haven't met one of my kids & hasn't seen another in about 8 months. My kids don't know their grandparents.If sibling is busy or has something on they'll do their garden, flower beds, cut grass. Last summer NF built one of kids a tree house from scratch- it looks like something Stacey solemn had done recently.

Like you, they could not name any of my friends, my interests or hobbies. Yet could do this for my sibling. They know nothing about my life or job
So much so, they asked me a question about a role I did 4-5 years ago when they were in company of their friends and I laughed and said I didn't do that any more!

Never call, even when I have been very critically ill over the past year and also a child very sick since Xmas with multiple hospital & a&e visits. Im laughing as I type this- they booked a last minute holiday to Tenerife!!! So I'm in a&e with my child (very serious situation, high dependency unit of hospital) and my parents are on Google looking up holidays

I'm also up to date on everyone I went to junior school with 20/25 years ago!! Could probably tell you their kids names & also tell you "Janice from the village died last Sunday of a heart attack" no I dont know Janice & no I don't care!

Sending you solidarity and love. You're not alone! Xx

testingonetwothreefoiur · Jun 17, 2024

griftalo said:
We call them cut off. Your mother sounds very similar to mine. Enmeshed with sister, weird about my brother, triangulated all of us I imagine. The only way was to cut her out. They like the attention of talking about you but there’s no care. Mine wouldn’t visit me in hospital at first (I nearly died) but according to a friend of hers she was SO WORRIED. Shame that didn’t translate into perceptible actions eh!?
I really feel for you as really they don’t like anyone.

How did No Contact progress and work out for you? If you wouldn't mind sharing.

I've been in trauma therapy for a few years now. Before that, I did talk therapy for the first time ever and just the act of being listened to and empathised with for literally the first time in 30 years changed my whole life. I was able to make some really positive life changes after that. But it was the beginning of the fall of the "I had a great / privileged childhood" house of cards.

I'm very low contact these days. I don't call or text. A lot of that happened after my wedding, since I couldn't reconcile my and my fiancé's incredible generosity and inclusion of my family with the terrible, neglectful treatment of my mother at the time. Plus I have the loveliest, kindest, warmest mother in law and the contrast really opened my eyes.

Cutting my mother off entirely hasn't happened, since I would also lose my sister and father to that and they are not as fcuked up or toxic to me as my mother. I tell her nothing though and maintain strict boundaries. There will have to be a conversation soon about my mentally ill older brother though, who my mother minds almost full-time and she's in her 70s now. And no way is that situation getting handed over to me in their old age. I just haven't been in a healed enough place to be able to have the conversation yet.

Mollywobbles · Jun 17, 2024

testingonetwothreefoiur said:
Does anyone have experience with a covert narcissistic mother?

I'm beginning to think that's what my mother is. I've been told all my life how lovely, sweet, kind, "typical mammy" my mother is. She is obsessed by status and the image of things - she loves to tell me what girls I went to school with literally 20+ years ago are up to, who got married, who had a baby, who has prestigious job somewhere, etc. How brilliant my cousins are. What my doctor sister is up to. All without ever expressing an iota of interest in me and my life, or even knowing the very basics - what I do in my job, who my friends are, what my interests are.

My family is complicated by an older sibling's illness, he has a severe debilitating mental health disorder with psychosis, all of which came to fruition when we were teenagers in a really traumatic way. Looking back now I can see how traumatized I was, but my mother would blame me at the time for being an angry, moody teen, who "didn't want any help" until I basically fled as soon as I could after school and built my life abroad. Since then I've been accidentally (or maybe not) low contact with my mother but I'm also realising she very rarely called, NEVER visited me in college or post college in the various cities I lived in, it was like an "out of sight out of mind" thing while she became enmeshed with my younger sister, who is a doctor now and provides her with so much supply.

Said sister was a bridemaid at my wedding a few years ago, and it struck me how she talks about my mother as if she's talking about an entirely different person to the woman I call my mother. She talked about how "amazing" my mother was, how we "had to" include my mother in the dress shopping, hen, etc, how *excited* my mother was about the wedding. Meanwhile, my mother barely congratulated me on getting engaged, asked no questions about the wedding and only criticized the information she did get E.G she complained relentlessly about our decision to not get married in a church despite neither of us being religious, etc. My mother called MY SISTER while we were dress shopping to wish us a good day, instead of me.

So I have this mother who is deeply enmeshed with the sibling that is most similar to her, to the point of knowing who she is dating, how stressed her job is making her, what she had for breakfast, etc. Another sibling who is in her full-time care as he is now special needs. And then me - the child she never calls, never texts, knows nothing but the basics about, loves to judge, criticize and I have to keep on an information diet because any personal information she gets will be gossiped about. Who cared more about her siblings enjoying my wedding than the well-being of me, her actual daughter.

And who loves to tell all her relatives how "independent" I am.

What do we call a mother like this? Can anyone relate?

Me too!
My sister was perfect.
Me, useless, not as pretty, etc.
All rubbish.
Why do they do it?

testingonetwothreefoiur · Jun 17, 2024

not_influenced said:
Wow wow wow wow WOW. I read your first paragraph and thought god that sounds like me, then as I continued to read I kept bobbing my head. The resemblance to my life and family situation is remarkable. I've said in a previous comment I have had to remark to my sibling that we do not have the same parents as when we speak, it is as though we are speaking about completely different people.

Parents mind and siblings his kids. They haven't met one of my kids & hasn't seen another in about 8 months. My kids don't know their grandparents.If sibling is busy or has something on they'll do their garden, flower beds, cut grass. Last summer NF built one of kids a tree house from scratch- it looks like something Stacey solemn had done recently.

Like you, they could not name any of my friends, my interests or hobbies. Yet could do this for my sibling. They know nothing about my life or job
So much so, they asked me a question about a role I did 4-5 years ago when they were in company of their friends and I laughed and said I didn't do that any more!

Never call, even when I have been very critically ill over the past year and also a child very sick since Xmas with multiple hospital & a&e visits. Im laughing as I type this- they booked a last minute holiday to Tenerife!!! So I'm in a&e with my child (very serious situation, high dependency unit of hospital) and my parents are on Google looking up holidays

I'm also up to date on everyone I went to junior school with 20/25 years ago!! Could probably tell you their kids names & also tell you "Janice from the village died last Sunday of a heart attack" no I dont know Janice & no I don't care!

Sending you solidarity and love. You're not alone! Xx

So sorry you can relate to my experience. We should introduce our mothers, sounds like they have a lot in common

I reeled reading your post. How a parent can express less compassion for a child than a stranger on the street is just beyond me. It's definitely diagnosable as it's so unnatural, against mother nature. I'm sorry you never really had a mother. I've learned through my own therapy that beneath all the anger and rage is a deep, deep grief for that itself - never having a mother that cared. Not having a mother that protected, or prioritised, or understood or even saw me.

I LOLd at the gardening story. That's my parents all over. Enmeshed sibling lives nearby and they are in her house every day, mowing the lawn, feeding the dog, hoovering, doing laundry. I've not lived in my hometown since I left secondary school which is 20+ years ago now. I have a real aversion to it, I flinch at the idea of living there because having them in my stratosphere is so deeply traumatizing. I'm a few hours away in a different city that my mother has, surprise surprise, never visited.

Her casual neglect of me continually horrifies me since I started to heal and look at it objectively. I've had a few health diagnoses in recent years that she's heard about through my Golden Child sibling. She loves to tell that sibling how worried she is about me, she made a hilarious comment to a close friend of mine that she met randomly about "how hard my life has been", while talking to me directly about it precisely zero times. She loves the Parent of the Year accolades that information about me affords her, whether it's the Poor Me act because I've done something she disapproves of, or Poor Worried Mom act when I'm having a hard time.

Do you maintain any level of contact with your family of origin? Have you called them out on their bs before?
---

Mollywobbles said:
Me too!
My sister was perfect.
Me, useless, not as pretty, etc.
All rubbish.
Why do they do it?

It's fvuked up. And in my case anyway, entirely illogical. My enmeshed sibling is more outgoing, yes, and fulfilled the Five Star Mom attribute of becoming a doctor and buying a house in the right part of town. I should add they remortgaged their house to pay for her medical degree and helped her with her house deposit. But she can't do her own laundry, she can't attract a healthy relationship to save her life, she's messy and emotional and not in the least bit street smart. She knows nothing about politics, current affairs, what's happening in the world. Objectively, I've ticked a lot more of the Well-Rounded Human boxes. I've travelled the world, had very successful career jobs, been financially independent for decades, married an incredible man, I'm objectively more attractive than her.

But to my mom, I don't exist?

Stella27 · Jun 17, 2024

testingonetwothreefoiur said:
So sorry you can relate to my experience. We should introduce our mothers, sounds like they have a lot in common

I reeled reading your post. How a parent can express less compassion for a child than a stranger on the street is just beyond me. It's definitely diagnosable as it's so unnatural, against mother nature. I'm sorry you never really had a mother. I've learned through my own therapy that beneath all the anger and rage is a deep, deep grief for that itself - never having a mother that cared. Not having a mother that protected, or prioritised, or understood or even saw me.

I LOLd at the gardening story. That's my parents all over. Enmeshed sibling lives nearby and they are in her house every day, mowing the lawn, feeding the dog, hoovering, doing laundry. I've not lived in my hometown since I left secondary school which is 20+ years ago now. I have a real aversion to it, I flinch at the idea of living there because having them in my stratosphere is so deeply traumatizing. I'm a few hours away in a different city that my mother has, surprise surprise, never visited.

Her casual neglect of me continually horrifies me since I started to heal and look at it objectively. I've had a few health diagnoses in recent years that she's heard about through my Golden Child sibling. She loves to tell that sibling how worried she is about me, she made a hilarious comment to a close friend of mine that she met randomly about "how hard my life has been", while talking to me directly about it precisely zero times. She loves the Parent of the Year accolades that information about me affords her, whether it's the Poor Me act because I've done something she disapproves of, or Poor Worried Mom act when I'm having a hard time.

Do you maintain any level of contact with your family of origin? Have you called them out on their bs before?
---

It's fvuked up. And in my case anyway, entirely illogical. My enmeshed sibling is more outgoing, yes, and fulfilled the Five Star Mom attribute of becoming a doctor and buying a house in the right part of town. I should add they remortgaged their house to pay for her medical degree and helped her with her house deposit. But she can't do her own laundry, she can't attract a healthy relationship to save her life, she's messy and emotional and not in the least bit street smart. She knows nothing about politics, current affairs, what's happening in the world. Objectively, I've ticked a lot more of the Well-Rounded Human boxes. I've travelled the world, had very successful career jobs, been financially independent for decades, married an incredible man, I'm objectively more attractive than her.

But to my mom, I don't exist?

Because you’re winning in life. Narcs hate that. They can’t control you. They’re jealous and bitter. My mother is like a magnet to anyone she see’s as ‘lower’ than her. She’s like Mother Teresa. ‘Aren’t you lucky to have a Mum like her’ I’ve been told, and she’s stood there smirking, giving me side-eye.

griftalo · Jun 17, 2024

testingonetwothreefoiur said:
How did No Contact progress and work out for you? If you wouldn't mind sharing.

I've been in trauma therapy for a few years now. Before that, I did talk therapy for the first time ever and just the act of being listened to and empathised with for literally the first time in 30 years changed my whole life. I was able to make some really positive life changes after that. But it was the beginning of the fall of the "I had a great / privileged childhood" house of cards.

I'm very low contact these days. I don't call or text. A lot of that happened after my wedding, since I couldn't reconcile my and my fiancé's incredible generosity and inclusion of my family with the terrible, neglectful treatment of my mother at the time. Plus I have the loveliest, kindest, warmest mother in law and the contrast really opened my eyes.

Cutting my mother off entirely hasn't happened, since I would also lose my sister and father to that and they are not as fcuked up or toxic to me as my mother. I tell her nothing though and maintain strict boundaries. There will have to be a conversation soon about my mentally ill older brother though, who my mother minds almost full-time and she's in her 70s now. And no way is that situation getting handed over to me in their old age. I just haven't been in a healed enough place to be able to have the conversation yet.

It’s been a good few years, I’d be better if I could have stopped her seeing some of my children but I’ve done what I can. I have been able to keep my younger ones away which is a blessing as she’s negatively affected relationships in the family - as you’d expect!
I don’t think you need to have a conversation, do you? I’d wait until it’s brought up and just say no.

not_influenced · Jun 17, 2024

testingonetwothreefoiur said:
So sorry you can relate to my experience. We should introduce our mothers, sounds like they have a lot in common

I reeled reading your post. How a parent can express less compassion for a child than a stranger on the street is just beyond me. It's definitely diagnosable as it's so unnatural, against mother nature. I'm sorry you never really had a mother. I've learned through my own therapy that beneath all the anger and rage is a deep, deep grief for that itself - never having a mother that cared. Not having a mother that protected, or prioritised, or understood or even saw me.

I LOLd at the gardening story. That's my parents all over. Enmeshed sibling lives nearby and they are in her house every day, mowing the lawn, feeding the dog, hoovering, doing laundry. I've not lived in my hometown since I left secondary school which is 20+ years ago now. I have a real aversion to it, I flinch at the idea of living there because having them in my stratosphere is so deeply traumatizing. I'm a few hours away in a different city that my mother has, surprise surprise, never visited.

Her casual neglect of me continually horrifies me since I started to heal and look at it objectively. I've had a few health diagnoses in recent years that she's heard about through my Golden Child sibling. She loves to tell that sibling how worried she is about me, she made a hilarious comment to a close friend of mine that she met randomly about "how hard my life has been", while talking to me directly about it precisely zero times. She loves the Parent of the Year accolades that information about me affords her, whether it's the Poor Me act because I've done something she disapproves of, or Poor Worried Mom act when I'm having a hard time.

Do you maintain any level of contact with your family of origin? Have you called them out on their bs before?
---

It's fvuked up. And in my case anyway, entirely illogical. My enmeshed sibling is more outgoing, yes, and fulfilled the Five Star Mom attribute of becoming a doctor and buying a house in the right part of town. I should add they remortgaged their house to pay for her medical degree and helped her with her house deposit. But she can't do her own laundry, she can't attract a healthy relationship to save her life, she's messy and emotional and not in the least bit street smart. She knows nothing about politics, current affairs, what's happening in the world. Objectively, I've ticked a lot more of the Well-Rounded Human boxes. I've travelled the world, had very successful career jobs, been financially independent for decades, married an incredible man, I'm objectively more attractive than her.

But to my mom, I don't exist?

The poor me act & acting like the angelic parent while not being there for you- yea can totally relate. Whilst my child was ill recently & I advised them we were in HDU of hospital, I did not disclose details of what was wrong. I just said I wasn't home as we were in hospital. They pressed and pressed for answers, calling and texting. It was bordering on harassment. It wasn't so they could be there and support and help it was so that she could say we were in hospital and when asked with what she could answer and act the doting parent/grandparent. So I choose not to tell them. So then they couldn't tell the villlage that I was in hospital, because in turn they would be asked "with what" and they wouldn't be able to answer!

I haven't cut contact completely but over past year I have been truly shocked by behaviour & lack of support & called them out on it. When I do it's "why are you always arguing and stiring things" "can we not just get on" & the usual deflection behaviour of a NP. So since Xmas I've blocked them on my phone from calls and have all their what's app in locked chat so when they text I don't see it unless I go looking for it. I don't phone or call them and information is limited that I do give. They make no effort with me or my family so I don't with them.

It's tough and I do grieve a relationship I never got and I grieve for my kids that they'll never have "baking with granny" etc. this thread has been fantastic in making me feel I'm not alone and reading all of your stories and experiences xx

testingonetwothreefoiur · Jun 17, 2024

Stella27 said:
Because you’re winning in life. Narcs hate that. They can’t control you. They’re jealous and bitter. My mother is like a magnet to anyone she see’s as ‘lower’ than her. She’s like Mother Teresa. ‘Aren’t you lucky to have a Mum like her’ I’ve been told, and she’s stood there smirking, giving me side-eye.

Oh the Mother Teresa thing. Yes. I think of my childhood as such a dark and confusing time, with the world telling me how "lovely" and "selfless" my mother was, as she played a martyr to any cause, the big one being my mentally deteriorating older sibling, while she actively judged me and shamed me for breathing if I dared to seek support from her. I could do nothing right, nothing was enough. The goalposts for "enough" kept changing. And I did it all - A+ student at school, brilliant at sports, excelled at music, loved by teachers and parents everywhere. Except my mother. It was never enough.

I also got landed regularly with the mind-blowing fcukery of being called "just like your father" - who she is married to 40+ years- if I did anything she disapproved of.
---

griftalo said:
It’s been a good few years, I’d be better if I could have stopped her seeing some of my children but I’ve done what I can. I have been able to keep my younger ones away which is a blessing as she’s negatively affected relationships in the family - as you’d expect!
I don’t think you need to have a conversation, do you? I’d wait until it’s brought up and just say no.

Last I heard I would be co-executor in the will with my favored sibling. And other sibling will come with guardianship issues / ward of state situation since he is so incapacitated. Not talking about it runs the risk of being landed into it giant shitshqw if / when they pass. Although thank you for your perspective, this thread and other people's account of how they handled the bs of parents like this has been very enlightening. You can feel incredibly alienated from the world when you have an anti- mother like this, that's for sure.

AlwaysSummer · Jun 18, 2024

Narcs are master manipulators. I used to fall for the tricks of occasional kindness of my parents and now see these in a completely different light. Similar to some if you, I was the invisible child- the one who got her shit together from a young age once I grasped that no attention and unconditional love would be extended to me unlike my brother.

By the time I graduated from uni my parents have reshuffled their properties to the point my brother was given one and I didn’t even have a room of my own and was sleeping on a couch in my father’s home office. Soon after I emigrated to another county and have lived there, happily married, for half of my life now. Apart from small presents for our child’s bday/xmas have given me or my family nothing of significance and I have never expected it. When we visit them I book a separate accommodation for us.

The recent couple of times we’ve been back, they have given me spending money because ‘they were mindful there is no place for us to stay when we visit.’ For the record, we have visited multiple times over the years and I have hosted them when they have visited us, no expense spared, also multiple times. The last time they also gave a generous and completely out of character amount of money to my child ‘towards her uni fees’. Within minutes of making the gesture, my mother was talking about their wishes to be looked after when one of them dies. They are both of an age when this is becoming a real possibility. Without saying directly they implied they want me to look after the remaining parent in their home as they both do not wish to go into residential care. Luckily my wonderful husband was there to support me and reiterated I shouldn’t feel guilt-tripped despite the generous gesture and that my real life with home/family who actually love me/ job is in a different country and I can’t drop it to look after people who’ve given fuck all about me.

I’m not planning to discuss the subject of elderly care with my brother until this is raised. Unlike me, him and his family are very much enmeshed with my parents with them being actively involved with raising the grandkids etc. Other things were said during our last visit that made me think about all the other secrets I’m not aware of within the family. Narcs manipulate, lie and twist to ensue their reality is right. I’m not a cynic by nature, however have learned the hard way to never trust them.

testingonetwothreefoiur · Jun 18, 2024

AlwaysSummer said:
Narcs are master manipulators. I used to fall for the tricks of occasional kindness of my parents and now see these in a completely different light. Similar to some if you, I was the invisible child- the one who got her shit together from a young age once I grasped that no attention and unconditional love would be extended to me unlike my brother.

By the time I graduated from uni my parents have reshuffled their properties to the point my brother was given one and I didn’t even have a room of my own and was sleeping on a couch in my father’s home office. Soon after I emigrated to another county and have lived there, happily married, for half of my life now. Apart from small presents for our child’s bday/xmas have given me or my family nothing of significance and I have never expected it. When we visit them I book a separate accommodation for us.

The recent couple of times we’ve been back, they have given me spending money because ‘they were mindful there is no place for us to stay when we visit.’ For the record, we have visited multiple times over the years and I have hosted them when they have visited us, no expense spared, also multiple times. The last time they also gave a generous and completely out of character amount of money to my child ‘towards her uni fees’. Within minutes of making the gesture, my mother was talking about their wishes to be looked after when one of them dies. They are both of an age when this is becoming a real possibility. Without saying directly they implied they want me to look after the remaining parent in their home as they both do not wish to go into residential care. Luckily my wonderful husband was there to support me and reiterated I shouldn’t feel guilt-tripped despite the generous gesture and that my real life with home/family who actually love me/ job is in a different country and I can’t drop it to look after people who’ve given fuck all about me.

I’m not planning to discuss the subject of elderly care with my brother until this is raised. Unlike me, him and his family are very much enmeshed with my parents with them being actively involved with raising the grandkids etc. Other things were said during our last visit that made me think about all the other secrets I’m not aware of within the family. Narcs manipulate, lie and twist to ensue their reality is right. I’m not a cynic by nature, however have learned the hard way to never trust them.

Wow. Invisible child. Yes. This is exactly it. I'm so sorry you've had this same heartbreak. And I hate that I'm going to say this, but seeing someone else go through the exact same experience down to life abroad (that was me for a long while), totally separate life, enmeshed sibling who gets it all and breadcrumbs from parents designed to keep them in the Good Parents aisle for any outsiders watching makes it seem less...personal to me. I've had to spend thousands on therapy not to mention the depression, eating disorders and fcuked relationships from how I internalised their neglect and really believed it was about me and my lack of self worth.

Do you maintain a relationship with your enmeshed brother and his kids? Does he ackmowledge youve been treated differently? Are you worried about those expectations of care and the will fallout after they pass?

AlwaysSummer · Jun 18, 2024

testingonetwothreefoiur said:
Wow. Invisible child. Yes. This is exactly it. I'm so sorry you've had this same heartbreak. And I hate that I'm going to say this, but seeing someone else go through the exact same experience down to life abroad (that was me for a long while), totally separate life, enmeshed sibling who gets it all and breadcrumbs from parents designed to keep them in the Good Parents aisle for any outsiders watching makes it seem less...personal to me. I've had to spend thousands on therapy not to mention the depression, eating disorders and fcuked relationships from how I internalised their neglect and really believed it was about me and my lack of self worth.

Do you maintain a relationship with your enmeshed brother and his kids? Does he ackmowledge youve been treated differently? Are you worried about those expectations of care and the will fallout after they pass?

Agreed, sorry to see how many of us have had similar experiences, however I do find this thread so comforting in that we are not alone. Like you, following repeated horrible name-calling passed as jokey comments in my childhood about my weight ( I was a normal sized child, def not overweight), I struggled with an eating disorder for several years in my late teens early 20s. It was happening right in front of my parents’ eyes, yet never acknowledged. Im so proud I had the strength to get over it in time.

Over the years I put in so much effort to maintain contact with my brother and his family. It’s not easy at best of times given the distance, but eventually I had to stop trying as it felt very one-sided. It all came to a head when my husband were supporting with cancer/death of one of his parents and I got minimal/emotional support from my brother and family over the course of couple of years,
I am all for giving people chances and appreciating we all have busy lives, however people tend to show quickly who they really are, we just have to believe them the 1st, 2nd or 3rd times and not keep hoping they would change.

I love my brothers kids and wish I could be closer to them. Despite numerous invites my brother and his family have never visited in all the years I’ve lived abroad. I had his eldest one visit together with my parents a few years back and hoping to get the other two visit when they are a bit older and I can arrange this directly with them.
I have never discussed the differences of upbringing with my brother. Although he has in many ways been treated better by my parents, I feel he is affected negatively in different ways by their scheming and would be surprised if there is a great deal of resentment towards me as I was the one who left. We are just no close enough to have this chat and he has zero interest in the adult me. It’s a shame really as I have a busy/ interesting life which neither parents or bother want to know about.

not_influenced · Jun 18, 2024

The thoughts of them passing is something that has been on my mind lately & how it will more than likely remove all contact with siblings? Thinking of having to attend the funeral does give me the occasional panic attack & acting upset when I'll infact probably be relieved!! Have any of you declined inheritance etc?

I love my siblings also but as others have said it's very one sided and over past year with illness and over the past number of years & having kids I've seen how one sided the relationship is. If I don't call/visit- they don't call or visit. At times it's Almost a competition on who's parenting life is harder! "Oh you're teething, just wait until they start school" they start school, "oh you think it's bad now wait until their teenagers".

Since their kids were born I've done bdays, Christmas, Halloween, turned up to swimming lessons, their soccer matches, their swim heats, Easter eggs, outfits for various occasions/celebrations, communion, confirmations & graduations.When my first child was born I was very upset and taken aback, that within the first year occasions were coming and going and nothing! When they failed to acknowledge their birthday I was simply broken hearted and so hurt on my child's behalf. Fast forward, kids still get a card in the post from me, with a token £20 cash for their birthday & Xmas. One part of me debates stopping it. Then I don't believe the kids should be blamed.

My siblings believe "life in short, our parents will never change" and they want to have a relationship with them & are happy to put up with their crap. But they are also treated very VERY different to me when they visit & in general.

Over the years I have at times questioned myself and my sanity. But this thread has confirmed I'm the normal one!!!

testingonetwothreefoiur · Jun 18, 2024

Thank you both for sharing. The sibling relationships are another casualty to narc parents like this. In my case it's just my mom that is positively and insidiously toxic, so I'd say the casualty is my father too. He's been under her spell for decades. I'm asking myself a lot of questions about my older mentally fcuked older brother too. There's a special place in hell for covert narcs who pretend to love their kids while silently emotionally abusing them.

With enmeshed sister, I've had to step back from her over the years. I couldn't do another Christmas coming home from a busy, interesting life to be ignored at the dinner table while my mother recited verse and chorus about her Golden Child's life. That sister has expressed that she wants to be closer and blames me for being aloof, while also reciting my mom's party line about how "quiet" and "independent" I am and how "I never ask for help". She thinks our mother is amazing, a saint, "gave us everything" and will say that to my face without any hint of recognition that it's usually months since my mother has said a word to me, and I've a better relationship with my coffee barista than my own mother.

That relationship has messed up my sibling too, she has no boundaries and has absorbed my mother's toxic view of the world hook line and sinker. I see her flounder again and again in toxic relationships, then bring the next guy home to meet my parents within weeks of dating, to be embraced by my mother until it all goes pear shaped and then my mother helps to scapegoat him with her until the next victim appears at the door. My husband says of her that she always needs an enemy. Just like my mother really.

I worry a lot about the next few years. They are in their 70s and becoming more and more frail and forgetful. The Low Contact means I've also little knowledge of what if any plans they've made for my incapacitated sibling. He's a total non entity at this stage and sits in their house doing nothing half of the week, spends the other half in residential care. I feel like that along with the impending need for elderly care-taking of these people that failed so badly at parenting is a ticking time bomb.

Bettyboo2475 · Jun 18, 2024

Does anyone struggle with friendships, I just can't relate to people, I don't trust anyone and always isolate from people. I'm then consumed with depression and feelings if inadequacy. And I'm sure people think I'm weird. I just cant explain my distrust if people because of my history with my parents

not_influenced · Jun 18, 2024

Bettyboo2475 said:
Does anyone struggle with friendships, I just can't relate to people, I don't trust anyone and always isolate from people. I'm then consumed with depression and feelings if inadequacy. And I'm sure people think I'm weird. I just cant explain my distrust if people because of my history with my parents

I wouldn't say I struggle with friendships I would say I find it hard at times not to be sad when I hear of friends who are going away with mammy for a girls weekend or holidays or annual window shopping trip and lunch at Xmas. Or hearing how much my friends parents do for them, most of my friends their parents were so involved and helpful when they were pregnant & when grand kids came on scene. When I meet strangers and strangers ask about "the doting grandparents" & "I bet their spoilt rotten by granny" I'm like oh yeah so many toys and just nood politely!

Chandler Bing · Jun 18, 2024

Bettyboo2475 said:
Does anyone struggle with friendships, I just can't relate to people, I don't trust anyone and always isolate from people. I'm then consumed with depression and feelings if inadequacy. And I'm sure people think I'm weird. I just cant explain my distrust if people because of my history with my parents

Yes, so much. I can't relate to anyone. I am so tired of people bragging about all the help they get from their amazing parents etc. I'm almost 40 now and learned that perhaps I'm just better off alone. With my cats who don't judge me in any way at all.

testingonetwothreefoiur · Jun 18, 2024

I would say I've struggled massively with trusting people as a result of my parents. Self isolation, hyper independence, never asking for or expecting help as a trauma response. That's definitely made friendships hard to maintain and form as an adult. I used to say I was someone who preferred their own company, never need or seek company etc and wear that a badge of honour. Through therapy I've seen that actually that's just a way of avoiding further pain to my traumatized brain and so much of healing comes from addressing that relational wound. Learning to not see people as the enemy, untrustworthy, selfish, manipulative.

I've also noticed how I've carried that "invisible child" role into some friendships too. I would let friends down by not showing up for things, not replying to texts, leaving workplaces or countries and literally never contact them again. Because I got used to invisibility, not mattering and would assume people didn't care enough to notice. Whereas of course they did and I definitely lost a few friendships that way.

Mollywobbles · Jun 18, 2024

not_influenced said:
I wouldn't say I struggle with friendships I would say I find it hard at times not to be sad when I hear of friends who are going away with mammy for a girls weekend or holidays or annual window shopping trip and lunch at Xmas. Or hearing how much my friends parents do for them, most of my friends their parents were so involved and helpful when they were pregnant & when grand kids came on scene. When I meet strangers and strangers ask about "the doting grandparents" & "I bet their spoilt rotten by granny" I'm like oh yeah so many toys and just nood politely!

When I was 13 I was so excited, I was going to get my first pair of shoes with high heels! It was one of the things that meant you were grown up.
Saturday came and I was all ready to go into town with Mum, I had saved my pocket money to buy a lipstick. Then she said her friend was coming with us. I was ignored, they chatted, did their bits of shopping and my shoes got ignored until the end.
By that time I was in a teenage sulk and refused to look at any. Of course, I was just a selfish ungrateful little girl!
The next week my Gran took me shopping and I got a great pair, clumpy two tone tan and brown sling backs that my mother disapproved of.
Years later when Mum’s friends were off shopping with their adult daughters and Mum was left out she complained that I never went shopping with her.

Readingismyhobby · Jun 18, 2024

Bettyboo2475 said:
Does anyone struggle with friendships, I just can't relate to people, I don't trust anyone and always isolate from people. I'm then consumed with depression and feelings if inadequacy. And I'm sure people think I'm weird. I just cant explain my distrust if people because of my history with my parents

I hadn’t thought about the friends angle. I have friends for a couple of years and then it finishes.

not_influenced · Jun 18, 2024

Mollywobbles said:
When I was 13 I was so excited, I was going to get my first pair of shoes with high heels! It was one of the things that meant you were grown up.
Saturday came and I was all ready to go into town with Mum, I had saved my pocket money to buy a lipstick. Then she said her friend was coming with us. I was ignored, they chatted, did their bits of shopping and my shoes got ignored until the end.
By that time I was in a teenage sulk and refused to look at any. Of course, I was just a selfish ungrateful little girl!
The next week my Gran took me shopping and I got a great pair, clumpy two tone tan and brown sling backs that my mother disapproved of.
Years later when Mum’s friends were off shopping with their adult daughters and Mum was left out she complained that I never went shopping with her.

The first part- can totally relate. All my life trying to go for lunch, shopping, dinner, spa weekend, activity weekends doing a sport she enjoys & will always find someone to join us or seek out complete strangers to speak to rather than speak or spend time with me. Sitting down and just spending quality time and having a chat is and never has been an option - there always has to be something to go, see or do & I'm always made feel like me, just me on my own, is not enough. It wasn't until I dated a guy in my 20s and built a really good relationship with his mum that I realised how unnormal mine was. I was baffled that she wanted to go shopping and spend time with ME alone!!

Narcissistic and toxic parents #2

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