Narcissistic and toxic parents #2

[testingonetwothreefoiur]

With golden child sibling, it's been mostly a painful relationship as she's so blind to the ignoring / neglect I get vs her enmeshed relationship with my mum. My folks are getting more needier with her now in their old age, and I know it frustrates her. She defaults to my mother's opinion / beliefs on things in her own life in a way that is so foreign and weird to me. "I could never do X, mum would kill me" kind of thing. "Mum said this, mom would love that" and she's well into her 30s now. She also says "MY mom" when she's in conversation with me, her sister, regularly which I find quite telling. She talks to my mom constantly, sees her multiple times a week, goes to her for advice etc. I can go months without hearing from the same mother.

As I get older I can appreciate that her relationship with them is equally emotionally neglectful and she's not a happy woman, is a serial monogamist that can't be alone for 5 minutes and is probably BPD. She's struggled to maintain relationships and goes from idolising people to discarding them. I've fallen into this pattern with her and been cut out by her for months at a time for arbitrary reasons. Like my mother she's never at fault, others are jealous of her or inferior to her if things go wrong in relationships, there's little self reflection.

I know she's been doing therapy in recent years so am hopeful someday she'll see things as they are and not as she's been brainwashed to see them. I've given up on talking about our childhood with her though as the triangulation, gossiping and smear campaigns are bad for my health.

 

[AlwaysSummer]

@lime, sorry you are going through this seemingly with next to no opportunity to discuss with the people who are meant to be closest to you. It seems your mum and brother are so preoccupied with their own lives, they are not ready to hear you out. This must feel so hard to live with while worrying about bumping into your dad. For what it’s worth you come across as a thoughtful, kind and lovely person. Sending hugs x

 

[buttheyneverblindme8]

Reading some of these posts, particularly about narcissistic mothers, make me very grateful that my mother is truly the most patient, caring, gentle and loving mother one could wish for. If you reading this were not afforded that luxury as a child - just know that it wasn't your fault, and that you are not the opinion of someone who never took the time to know you.

But I can relate to those here who write about fathers. My father and I have had an extremely tempestuous relationship over the years. Not necessarily because of anything we've done to each other (although I could write a book on his failings as a parent, and he could mine as a son) - but because we just so happen to have absolutely nothing whatsoever in common other than our personalities. And I tend to find that can go one of two ways: you're either each other's ride or die for life, or you want to impale each other on a railing at any given opportunity. We were the latter.

My father is the most emotionally unavailable man I have ever known. He would give us the silent treatment for (literally) months at a time apart from to grunt one-word answers at us when my Mum and I asked him something, before snapping out of whatever was on his mind with no apology or explanation whatsoever. Of course, he'd be the cheeky chappie whenever we were out with family or friends before the walls would go up the second we were behind closed doors. And who could forget the many classic put-downs I got, like "stop trying to be intelligent, because it just doesn't suit you", or "it's always my fault, isn't it?" "Yes, I noticed that, too."

Nothing I said or did was right as a child. He wanted me to be how he was, and I wanted to be how I am. He was a football nut. I hate it. He was a social butterfly. I'm an introvert who prefers being on his computer. He's the life and soul of the party. I have very few friends through choice. He's into women. I'm not. He sat me down one night and told me - verbatim - "when you bring home someone to meet me, make sure their name is Samantha, not Samuel." To this day he doesn't know I'm gay (although he isn't green - he knows deep down), but this is because I don't consider it his business, not because he's a homophobe (he genuinely isn't; more the type to worry about what his friends would think of "one of the lads" having a gay son).

I remember literally having to tell him to congratulate me when I excelled in my GCSEs, and watching him nearly strangle my mother to death when I was six (the one and only time he was ever violent, as confirmed by my mother). If I told him I loved him, I got told to "shut up, you poof", so I haven't said it in a decade. He even said I repulsed him in the middle of a packed pub once; when I told my Mum and she confronted him about it, he gaslit me straight to my face and denied he ever said it. I will give my father credit though, as he has genuinely mellowed over the years and is much more open about his faults, flaws and mistakes, and is slowly becoming someone I'm learning to like, maybe even love one day. But the damage has long since been done. He isn't the father I deserved, and I'm not the son he wanted. But in all honesty, I'm finally at a place where I'm OK with that.

Will I be overjoyed when he dies? No. Had you asked me that question a decade ago, there'd be a very different answer! Will I be sad? Who knows.

 

[Urbanbunny]

Reading some of these posts, particularly about narcissistic mothers, make me very grateful that my mother is truly the most patient, caring, gentle and loving mother one could wish for. If you reading this were not afforded that luxury as a child - just know that it wasn't your fault, and that you are not the opinion of someone who never took the time to know you.

But I can relate to those here who write about fathers. My father and I have had an extremely tempestuous relationship over the years. Not necessarily because of anything we've done to each other (although I could write a book on his failings as a parent, and he could mine as a son) - but because we just so happen to have absolutely nothing whatsoever in common other than our personalities. And I tend to find that can go one of two ways: you're either each other's ride or die for life, or you want to impale each other on a railing at any given opportunity. We were the latter.

My father is the most emotionally unavailable man I have ever known. He would give us the silent treatment for (literally) months at a time apart from to grunt one-word answers at us when my Mum and I asked him something, before snapping out of whatever was on his mind with no apology or explanation whatsoever. Of course, he'd be the cheeky chappie whenever we were out with family or friends before the walls would go up the second we were behind closed doors. And who could forget the many classic put-downs I got, like "stop trying to be intelligent, because it just doesn't suit you", or "it's always my fault, isn't it?" "Yes, I noticed that, too."

Nothing I said or did was right as a child. He wanted me to be how he was, and I wanted to be how I am. He was a football nut. I hate it. He was a social butterfly. I'm an introvert who prefers being on his computer. He's the life and soul of the party. I have very few friends through choice. He's into women. I'm not. He sat me down one night and told me - verbatim - "when you bring home someone to meet me, make sure their name is Samantha, not Samuel." To this day he doesn't know I'm gay (although he isn't green - he knows deep down), but this is because I don't consider it his business, not because he's a homophobe (he genuinely isn't; more the type to worry about what his friends would think of "one of the lads" having a gay son).

I remember literally having to tell him to congratulate me when I excelled in my GCSEs, and watching him nearly strangle my mother to death when I was six (the one and only time he was ever violent, as confirmed by my mother). If I told him I loved him, I got told to "shut up, you poof", so I haven't said it in a decade. He even said I repulsed him in the middle of a packed pub once; when I told my Mum and she confronted him about it, he gaslit me straight to my face and denied he ever said it. I will give my father credit though, as he has genuinely mellowed over the years and is much more open about his faults, flaws and mistakes, and is slowly becoming someone I'm learning to like, maybe even love one day. But the damage has long since been done. He isn't the father I deserved, and I'm not the son he wanted. But in all honesty, I'm finally at a place where I'm OK with that.

Will I be overjoyed when he dies? No. Had you asked me that question a decade ago, there'd be a very different answer! Will I be sad? Who knows.

What a horrible man! You sound like a lovely person
---
Wonder if anyone can help if they work in social care. My mum has LA carers. She’s abusive and violent to them. They don’t want to come. She’s been told off by the council and asked to stop her behaviour as it’s not acceptable. She’s a drunk as well.

She wants “different carers” but any other care companies that the LA knows won’t take her on because she’s abusive / violent.

I think they are having some sort of meeting about her at the council - does anyone now whet the possible outcomes might be?

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

Didn’t realise there was a thread on this! Hello and solidarity

I’ve just finished a course of EMDR and it’s been the best thing ever for me. It sounds weird but I can physically feel a difference in my body, like my tummy is less butterflies/anxious and I can better manage my anxiety for the first time ever. Which is great, but sad I never was given that by my parents!

 

[testingonetwothreefoiur]

Didn’t realise there was a thread on this! Hello and solidarity

I’ve just finished a course of EMDR and it’s been the best thing ever for me. It sounds weird but I can physically feel a difference in my body, like my tummy is less butterflies/anxious and I can better manage my anxiety for the first time ever. Which is great, but sad I never was given that by my parents!

EMDR is brutal, but really hits the trauma at its core. A real struggle I've had is my poor childhood memories. My sibling is sharp as a tack and will remember mundane events down to what each of us was wearing at the time. I on the other hand don't remember most things, and what I do remember is flashes of moments surrounded by fog. It's been so hard to process my trauma and not self-gaslight the hell out of myself because of this. EMDR helped me to tap into stuff I didnt even think about or remember before. And helped me to slowly re-programme my brain into more of an adult self, who could see the situation and the neglect / abuse / pain of it objectively, rather than as a helpless wounded child. It really is so helpful.

I'd be curious about any experiences people have coming from a degree of financial privilege growing up, is anyone else in this club? I find this added dimension adds more confusion and self-gaslighting to what I went through, as I grew up in a big house in a wealthy part of town, had a rake of middle class hobbies as a kid etc. I'd have traded it all in for a set of parents that didn't traumatize me into a fight or flight state for most of my childhood of course, but I've found the whole experience of "it all looked GREAT on paper" quite isolating.

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

EMDR is brutal, but really hits the trauma at its core. A real struggle I've had is my poor childhood memories. My sibling is sharp as a tack and will remember mundane events down to what each of us was wearing at the time. I on the other hand don't remember most things, and what I do remember is flashes of moments surrounded by fog. It's been so hard to process my trauma and not self-gaslight the hell out of myself because of this. EMDR helped me to tap into stuff I didnt even think about or remember before. And helped me to slowly re-programme my brain into more of an adult self, who could see the situation and the neglect / abuse / pain of it objectively, rather than as a helpless wounded child. It really is so helpful.

I'd be curious about any experiences people have coming from a degree of financial privilege growing up, is anyone else in this club? I find this added dimension adds more confusion and self-gaslighting to what I went through, as I grew up in a big house in a wealthy part of town, had a rake of middle class hobbies as a kid etc. I'd have traded it all in for a set of parents that didn't traumatize me into a fight or flight state for most of my childhood of course, but I've found the whole experience of "it all looked GREAT on paper" quite isolating.

Really relate to the patchy memory, also some of the things that stung the most weren’t the big bad events like physical abuse or being called something, it was just the feeling of hopelessness that you didn’t have a support network? Like the constant underlying hum of neglect was worse than physical abuse for me, personally. The way my therapist did it was to draw timelines and you start with objective facts like major events - births, deaths, schools, jobs, and then you start padding around like good things / bad things. My pages were just all red (I’d chosen to colour co ordinate these lol) and themes became apparent. I really loved that I didn’t need to talk through every single example of a theme like I have with previous talking therapies, I just had to process the resultant feeling that the combination of howevermany events had given me! It has been so liberating. It sounds silly but my literal torso feels better because I don’t have a flipping tummy or racing heart, I just feel like a solid state hard drive chilling I have to keep reminding myself to practice it at home (I just tap) to process emotions as they come up but doing well so far. I wonder if I’ll have to have refresher courses as I grow older or if this is just my new brain now, but enjoying life post EMDR for sure!

 

[buttheyneverblindme8]

Another thing I want to rant about: the "you only get one Mum/Dad" comment. My answer to that is: "... and?"

It is not every parent who is deserving of such a title. And I'm almost certain the vast majority of those spouting that comment along with other similar platitudes ("you love him/her really", "you'll regret it when he/she dies" to name just two) grew up in happy little bubbles where everybody loved them and everything was perfect. But sadly for them, not everyone has been afforded that luxury, so the idea that you can resent, disown or estrange yourself from a parent is utterly inconceivable to them.

We shouldn't be made to feel guilty for wanting nothing to do with a parent/s who wanted absolutely nothing to do with us. Some parents have literally earned the disdain, resentment and hatred their children have for them.

 

[Peepynose]

Another thing I want to rant about: the "you only get one Mum/Dad" comment. My answer to that is: "... and?"

It is not every parent who is deserving of such a title. And I'm almost certain the vast majority of those spouting that comment along with other similar platitudes ("you love him/her really", "you'll regret it when he/she dies" to name just two) grew up in happy little bubbles where everybody loved them and everything was perfect. But sadly for them, not everyone has been afforded that luxury, so the idea that you can resent, disown or estrange yourself from a parent is utterly inconceivable to them.

We shouldn't be made to feel guilty for wanting nothing to do with a parent/s who wanted absolutely nothing to do with us. Some parents have literally earned the disdain, resentment and hatred their children have for them.

This is so true, people say that as an offhand comment without stopping to actually think about it. Yes I’ve only got one mum/dad so can you imagine how terrible/awful/traumatic things must have been for me to make the impossible choice to voluntarily estrange myself from them!

 

[not_influenced]

Another thing I want to rant about: the "you only get one Mum/Dad" comment. My answer to that is: "... and?"

It is not every parent who is deserving of such a title. And I'm almost certain the vast majority of those spouting that comment along with other similar platitudes ("you love him/her really", "you'll regret it when he/she dies" to name just two) grew up in happy little bubbles where everybody loved them and everything was perfect. But sadly for them, not everyone has been afforded that luxury, so the idea that you can resent, disown or estrange yourself from a parent is utterly inconceivable to them.

We shouldn't be made to feel guilty for wanting nothing to do with a parent/s who wanted absolutely nothing to do with us. Some parents have literally earned the disdain, resentment and hatred their children have for them.

My golden sibling's ultimate one liner to me!!!

 

[griftalo]

My golden sibling's ultimate one liner to me!!!

Yeah and they only got one you! It’s flippable but no one stops to think that way round whe they make their silly judgemental comment

 

[Adelie penguin]

Wonder if anyone can help if they work in social care. My mum has LA carers. She’s abusive and violent to them. They don’t want to come. She’s been told off by the council and asked to stop her behaviour as it’s not acceptable. She’s a drunk as well.

She wants “different carers” but any other care companies that the LA knows won’t take her on because she’s abusive / violent.

I think they are having some sort of meeting about her at the council - does anyone now whet the possible outcomes might be?

It's very difficult when someone is being abusive and there is no black and white answer. If your mum has eligible needs under the Care Act (which presumably she does if she has LA funded carers) then the LA has a duty to meet them. However there is also a duty to make sure the care workers can work in a safe environment.

Any meeting should involve your mum and look to address why she is being abusive and try to address this. This might involve referrals to substance misuse or mental health services. However it is very difficult and it may be that your mum's needs cannot be safely met in her home environment and different options may need to be explored. It will also involve considering if your mum has capacity to understand decisions that need to be made (capacity is decision specific) and should involve family if your mum consents - given what this thread is, you may not wish to be involved in this process.

I should say I'm not a social worker but have adult social care experience.

 

[Urbanbunny]

It's very difficult when someone is being abusive and there is no black and white answer. If your mum has eligible needs under the Care Act (which presumably she does if she has LA funded carers) then the LA has a duty to meet them. However there is also a duty to make sure the care workers can work in a safe environment.

Any meeting should involve your mum and look to address why she is being abusive and try to address this. This might involve referrals to substance misuse or mental health services. However it is very difficult and it may be that your mum's needs cannot be safely met in her home environment and different options may need to be explored. It will also involve considering if your mum has capacity to understand decisions that need to be made (capacity is decision specific) and should involve family if your mum consents - given what this thread is, you may not wish to be involved in this process.

I should say I'm not a social worker but have adult social care experience.

This is really useful. We did ask for a mental health referral and they went to my mum’s and asked if she knew what day it was and who the prime minister is and she told them to duck off. I genuinely don’t know if she has capacity to understand issues. She can remember things from years ago with ease but either can’t or flatly refuses to engage with any kind of help and talks utter bollocks a lot.

I think no matter who they send around to help, she’ll be abusive and tell them to duck off.