Narcissistic and toxic parents #2

[Rodneytrotter]

@Rodneytrotter ...are you aware of the "Death" board on the MSE website? You'll get free advice, there are often some very helpful posters on there.

Deaths, funerals & probate

Get MoneySaving help at the time of bereavement - discuss wills, inheritance tax, estate planning and more.

forums.moneysavingexpert.com

Have you got a copy of the will? I believe that you can search online to see if probate has been granted...

Search probate records for documents and wills (England and Wales)

Search online for a will, grant of representation or probate document for a death in or after 1858

www.gov.uk

I do hope that you are able to fight this and get what is rightfully yours, as intended by your gran.

Ah thank you yes I have a copy of the will and probate was granted in December. It was a few weeks ago I was asked to waive my share so that she could have it all. I have spoken to a solicitor today, they said they will get back to me and let me know a plan and how much it will cost.

 

[Keikochan]

I agree with above posters, if you would rather he didn't attend, then tell him to stay away. You told both of them not to do anything to the item you put so much time, money & energy into, yet they still altered it. Both of them did this, do not give your mum a pass, she was there too. Her telling you that you're sensitive & over reacting is such a condescending slap in the face to you being honest and communicating your feelings. TBH & I know you might think this is harsh, but I would disinvite her too. You & your SO should enjoy your wedding day without them spoiling it on you. If guests ask (most prob won't) tell them you would rather focus on who is here for your special day, or tell them that they are hung over.
Just do what you think is best and will make you happiest. Don't think of it as Final, think of it as Finally.

 

[RandomFrog]

Not sure if I’m in the right place but I need advice.
For reference I am 29 with my own family and house.

The past few years both my parents have made passing comments about my weight, calling me ‘fats’ when they are trying to get my attention in a conversation instead of using my name, or they are calling me ‘Miss trunchbull’.
I have always asked them not to but never seemed to work, I cut them off around 2 years ago as a few other things went on, around 3 months ago I got back in contact due to family emergency, we are all back on track but I’ve noticed the name calling is happening again, they laugh when saying it and it seems to roll off the tongue like it’s fine.
last week I snapped and asked them to stop has it really got to my confidence has I struggle with my weight (I am 14st) when I asked them to stop, my mum tried to turn it on me by saying I was being sensitive and she can’t have a joke with me, I explained that I didn’t see it has a joke and that I clearly asked them to stop, my mum and dad went in a petty mood and said ‘we just won’t speak to you then if you can’t take a joke’.
Yesterday I was walking out of my front garden when my dad pulled up and asked if I wanted to be taken to work, I said ok and got in. The first thing my mum said to me was ‘you need to mow the lawn’ I kindly responded with ‘it fine for today, I am busy, I’ll do it when I’ve got time’ (my lawn is less then an inch tall, so does not need to be done deliberately) my mum didn’t stop, she kept telling me that it was a nice day and that it needed doing, so I made a passing comment and said ‘if it’s that bad, you do it then’ my mum and dad then said that they couldn’t has they were going to mow my sisters lawn. I simply replied and said that they need to stop constantly telling me to do this and do that then in the next breath they are going to my sisters house and cleaning, mowing, dressing my nephews. Everything you could imagine my sister should be doing, my parents do it for her and for no reason, she is capable just lazy. My mum and dad then turned it into a big problem and said that I was yet again being sensitive.
It then went on to me asking why they’ve never been in my house but always go to my sisters house who lives less then 2 minutes away from mine, I told them I feel singled out and picked on like I’m back at school, they keep telling me I’m being sensitive and not taking a joke and that I always bring my sister into it and tbf I do because I am jealous that my sister gets to be what she wants and do what she wants but I can never seem to do anything right. I work my butt off and provide for my own little family, I prioritise everyone to make sure they are happy, so why do I not get this in return?
my son asked his grandma if he could stay over at the weekend, he was told no because they are having my sisters two over for 5 days because she and her husband are going to a festival. My mum and dad have already said they have plans to go to my sisters house and clean because it is like a dump! Yet they are on my case over a bit of grass! Telling me I’m lazy and get out of breath quick that’s why Its not been done. I feel like walking away again but simply can not bring myself to do it again, I would do anything for a loving bond between me and my parents because that’s the type of person I am, but why do I feel like I’m not getting anything in return.
please can I have advice or if you’ve been in similar situations please could you tell me what helped you.

I really feel for you, my situation is very similar except I've never been NC. Unfortunately I think (& have got to this point myself) you're never going to be able to do right and they're always going to find issue with something. I find it best if I just outwardly agree, it stops them going on which is mostly what makes me feel like shit and just try to live your life your way (sounds like you're doing a great job!)

 

[MrsOgre]

I'm still trying to speak to my mum and getting either one word or no responses. I've just moved house, my aunt is texting me to ask how it's going and what's my new address and my mum isn't interested at all. I feel guilty, that it's somehow my responsibility to keep communicating. I wish I could just cut her off completely.
I really feel for all of you here that have a very different perspective of an awful parent, I should count myself lucky that she just doesn't care at all.

 

[FlipFlop0706]

Thank you so much for reaching out FlipFlop0706. That’s very kind of you

After my other posts, I spoke to my sister who told me she had asked my mother and brother not to rush to book an appointment without telling me. She said they didn’t want to listen to her and booked it anyways. I now know what went down…which is essentially them doing whatever they want.

The appointment happened earlier this afternoon and the notary told them they’d get back a bit more money than expected. The document was signed. Whatever fees apply will be deducted from what the notary has in probate.

So effectively, the probate is closed now (or at least, I hope). I also took the initiative to tell my sister that now that the probate is closed, all administrative/financial matters will be handed to her and my brother because ‘ I no longer to be involved’ (my exact words). All paperwork I have will be returned to them by post.

This situation has left a huge sour taste in my mouth (also the notary’s secretary’s behavior today but that’s another topic in itself lol).

I genuinely hope I’ll be able to move on with my life. I thought that I’d be happy once the whole thing would get closed off but I’m honestly just wondering what type of nonsense is coming my way next. I hope things will settle a bit now.

Just take some time and space. You’ve been dealing with this for a while so I imagine now it’s all dealt with it’s difficult as in a sense one weight has been lifted from your shoulders but now unfortunately it may potentially unfortunately be replaced with as you say what kind of nonsense you are going to get coming your way.

At the end of the day, you can’t control that. What other people do as a reaction is on them. All you can do is manage the situation to your best interests. I’d let things blow over for a while, hopefully everyone in that time will be able to reflect on their behaviour and actions and then you can reassess what’s best for you.

Enjoy your weekend! x

 

[Bettyboo2475]

You may not come from a loving family unit but you are breaking the cycle by building one of your own which takes courage, compassion and love. You’re giving to your kids what you never had! Saying to you what I often need to hear myself xx

What we say to eachother is very much what we want to believe ourselves. Hearing your words of comfort have really helped me tonight, thank you. Sending you love too xx

 

[House of Carbonara]

I’m glad I’ve found this thread
A few months ago I stopped most contact with my mum and most of my family and it almost feels like a death if that makes sense like I’m grieving the relationship and the family dynamic I could’ve had? I know grief from when I lost my dad when I was young and it almost feels the same
From speaking to a lot of my friends especially my female friends they struggle with their mum and things their mums do

It’s been so many incidents but it’s really Facebook and over sharing that’s killed a lot of the relationships in our family. My mum will just post anything and everything to get sympathy and get attention. She pretends to be such a loving caring and understanding person online but in person she can be cold, argumentative, disinterested and make you feel so awful about yourself. She gets told several times that she’s not allowed to post things, I can’t count the amount of times that my brother and his wife told my mum not to post when she was pregnant/ just given birth and my mum did. She gets told not to post photos or baby’s names and she does then every time my mum is called out on her behaviour or something she’s posted that’s not right she’ll write a scatching Facebook status about her kids slagging them off saying she raised us so she can talk about whatever she wants and she can post whatever she wants. She’ll usually block us or unfriend us then do it and we only find out from other family members. I can’t even count the amount of times she’s done it, then it’s caused massive arguments and she still doesn’t think she’s in the wrong. She’ll just post more about how hard her life is and how horrible is to her.

She has no sympathy for anyone else having trouble in the family. When my sister in law had a miscarriage all she said was they told us too soon and they can just have another one. When my other sister in law lost a baby at birth my mum said that she shouldn’t be calling the baby, “my baby”, as it didn’t include my brother.


She lies just constantly I don’t even know if she knows the truth anymore. She’s taken my belongings without asking, she used to wear my makeup and my clothes. She took my coat and posted about it online when I asked for it back and said to her that I didn’t want her to post about me online as it makes me uncomfortable she deleted the posts only to make new ones a few minutes later with the sympathy sad faces and lines. She laughed when people were calling me cruel and saying it looked better on her. She called me fat in the comments and said I’ve crept up in weight and size and didn’t understand why I got so upset, (for years shes made comments about the fact I’m a lot shorter and curvier than the rest of my family and how she was so tall and thin and beautiful when she was my age and why couldn’t I just not gain weight easily like my sister, I really struggled with my weight and eating and I still do as a result of this). She sent me messages saying how many people had liked the statuses and photos of her saying how much better she looks. When I called her to talk about what had been posted and how much it upset me she just shouted over me saying how me and my siblings don’t message her and how awful we are. I spent the whole night shaking and crying and dreading the inevitable Facebook status slagging me off

I just don’t get it
How can you be so cruel to your child? How is she so comfortable to slag off her children and pit them against each other
How could she laugh at me when I cried and say I was faking it
How can she not respect her children’s wishes and the most simple requests

I’m terrified of being like her. I know I have the same short temper and laziness and I’ve been trying so hard to change and to stop myself before I get angry but I don’t want to be like her

I wish I could hug you, my lovely - you'll never be like her because you have compassion.
Sending much, much love.

 

[FlipFlop0706]

You have every right to protect yourself against your mother and her manoeuvres. I have had years of this attitude from my mother. I love her because she is my mother, but I certainly don’t like her. You deserve to be treated with respect. Being you mother doesn’t allow her to treat you like this.

Thank you. I think it’s hard as this is one of the few times in a long while where I’ve actually put in boundaries and almost stood up for myself? I’m quite passive normally, and will do anything to keep the peace (almost to a fault!) but I’m coming to realise that maybe the problem isn’t just me anymore. I’m not being treated with a basic level of respect and I don’t think i deserve that.

I just find it so frustrating that she can’t just apologise. It didn’t need to be this blown out of proportion. Like just apologise? It’s not hard- I’m the one who is socially anxious but I have no problem accepting when I’m in the wrong and will hold my hands up whenever I’m at fault. I genuinely think she thinks it’s a bad thing to apologise as that will mean accepting she was wrong. Historically she has never apologised and come to think of it often thinks that she doesn’t need to apologise as she’s “always right”.

I could understand if she’s reluctant to apologise to me if I was the type to hold it over her but I’m not. I’m a apologise and move on kind of person. I just want her to say “yes I was wrong about the original tiff, I’m sorry for what I said and how I treated you afterwards, it was uncalled for”.

Saying that though, I don’t think I can ever forget the “let’s pretend we like each other” which I think I’ll always hold on to. I don’t think I can trust her anymore.

The stress of this has caused me to break out in a rash all over my face so any advice on that would be great! I can’t work out if it’s a stress reaction or just because I feel so ashamed of myself.

 

[Nonah]

I can relate very much unfortunately. My mum will get quite nasty, unreasonable and even dishonest about something, and then when called out, she will act like a toddler (head down, tears in eyes, bottom lip stuck out) and start over-apologising in a baby-ish voice, saying “I didn’t mean it”, “I thought I was doing the right thing”, “I didn’t know”, etc. - all lies and acting, just to make herself seem like the victim. It’s annoying but so confusing and odd.

Exactly. I’m sorry you can relate though. It’s really shit.

 

[HM03]

My dads been diagnosed with Eupd but I often see narc traits in him. He's pushed basically everyone away from him and now heavily depends on me and its draining. Trying to set boundaries feels impossible. For example all week he has had the opportunity of going up to A&E for 'chest pains' and for my younger sister to look after his dog while he does so. He's chosen not to go all week then decides at the weekend he wants to go and me and my sister should cancel our plans to take him. I explained to him A&E isn't a day trip out and if you can put it off all week you most likely don't need to go. Its like everything is a test. He says well I would do it for you! To which I respond well actually I don't think you would and also you should, you're the parent? We aren't your parent. The only thing he will do is borrow us money but id rather he didn't as he will throw it back in our faces almost like its a bargaining tool. I'd have too much guilt to go no contact but anyone found anything that works in setting boundaries with these types of people?

 

[Brightstar72]

Yep, ive also lost my mum (her sister) but they dont care about that. I have seen the will, it doesn't say any addresses for any beneficiaries.

I’m so sorry for your losses.

I agree with the previous poster re: probate there’s always more than one executor to a will and often, the second executor is the firm of solicitors who’s dealing with the estate. Often, there’s a named individual within the firm too.

I know how stressful this can be and I really hope that you’re okay and can get to the bottom of it all.

 

[Good Egg]

I once stood up to my mum when she blustered into my living room uninvited, with a face the colour of a tomato and started yelling at me. I can still feel the pleasure of telling her calmly that “this is my house and I will not stand for any bullshit she was planning on spewing. If she wanted to talk rationally I would listen but if she was going to rant to leave immediately and close the door on the way out. My house my rules”. I can still see the shock on her face. It stopped her completely in her tracks and left her speechless.

Unfortunately that was the one and only time I’ve ever had the emotional strength to stand up to the old witch. And the only reason I did it was because she was coming to complain about one of my kids who she (wrongly) thought had wronged her.

I went complete mama bear defending my daughter. I only wish I could stand up for myself more often. But years of being ground down have left me drained.

Mr Toes keeps telling me to stand up to her. And I rehearse speeches constantly but I just can’t form the words when I’m with her.
But I’m betting she’ll never call any of my kids again. Because I’m certain that I’d probably find the words then

Why is it so difficult to defend myself?

Sorry for rambling but I too am in bed with a headache.
edited spelling mistake (damn autocorrect!)

I’m an absolute coward and cannot stand up to NM. I cower and give in. She has power over me. Hard to explain. I don’t take shit from no one but her I cannot stand up against

 

[AlwaysSummer]

I had lots of talking therapy which helped me work through a lot of issues with my parents. I actually started going after the death of my MIL because I missed so much having a mother in my life. My therapist was great and I was with her for over 18 months. I completely recommend therapy to air and organise all your thoughts and feelings.

Thank you, @Nonah, that’s so encouraging and glad you have found therapy helpful.

 

[cee-bee]

Thank you. I still didn’t cave despite the messages from my brother.

I’m the one hurting her now.

I don't resent my brother but she has treated us differently.

I spent today crying over this too. Duck it’s been three days. There’s a reason I’ve been in therapy for almost five years now. I’m just so sad.

oh man I can definitely empathise with this. Your brother means well and is probably being guilted himself but he’s becoming a flying monkey.

for what it’s worth - you are totally in the right to do what you are doing. Your relatives feeling sad/ashamed/guilty etc isn’t your responsibility. If people don’t treat you with respect then you have every right to put distance between yourself and them. It isn’t selfish or rude, it’s an act of self love.

You are showing a lot of strength of character and bravery to stand up to people you love, and not many people will understand that. Not many people are brave enough to do that - so I just wanted to send a supportive message for those moments of self doubt which are inevitable.

IME it’s pointless to argue with flying monkeys. I’d send a message along the lines of “I understand you feel concerned for our mother but this is a boundary im setting and something I need to do for myself. It isn’t up for discussion. I accept that you might not be able to understand but I do expect that you accept my decision to do what’s best for me and accept this is not something I want to discuss further”.

engaging in back and forths aren’t likely to win then over to your side, they’ll just fuel those seeds of self doubt (planted by years of gaslighting no doubt). Sometimes people just aren’t going to understand or approve of you and that’s ok.

 

[Meg78]

Is there a thread for narcissist friends and family? Unfortunately my sister married a narcissist and they’ve yet again ruined another holiday for my children

 

[HelloStereo]

What are your relationships like with your siblings?

I'm made out as if I'm the problem, cutting my parents out is "hurtful to them" "after all that they have done for us". If I don't text back or answer calls from sibling immediately or within days, I'm bombarded with messages of "are you ok" & "this is not normal behaviour". Or this most recent classic has been "I'm just checking you're ok as this is not normal, my message only comes from a place of love."

How many different ways can you say f*ck off?!?

I have a good relationship with my brother now but it wasn't always so. When I was a lot younger and had just left the home and wasn't coming back he'd often contact me asking when I was coming home and calling me a "bitch" because I was making my mum cry.

She focused her abuse on him after I left though and within a year or so he left. We're both well into our thirties and whenever someone asks about it he just says "she was really horrible to my sister."

It's harder when they're still under their parents manipulation or did not have the same experience as you if they were the "golden child". Please don't let that invalidate your experience though. Have as much or as little contact with them as you feel comfortable with to protect your peace.
---
As an aside I have just started listening to "Adult survivors of emotionally abusive parents" by Sherrie Campbell and although I'm only a couple of hours into it, it has made me feel so heard. I find myself nodding along and everything she says she has experienced I have too in one form or another.

 

[Urbanbunny]

I think I’ve run out of resilience. I’ve gone through my life always trying to maintain a sense of “well what if things get better tomorrow?”. I don’t think that is there any more. Just once I’d like someone to look after me. My dad wasn’t the best dad or even around much but I know that he loved and actually liked me and he’s gone, my mum is the one left and im
No contact with her for my sanity. I’ve always been able to have a plan, I’ll just keep on, keep moving, next steps. But now it’s like what’s the point? Nothing gets any better. I’m so tired, everyone expects 100x more from me than themselves.

I’m very similar with my parents. My dad wasn’t perfect and passed away in the summer. I spent years NC and regret it because I made a monster out of him in my head. He’s a flawed person but he did love me very much and I regret my actions. We made up and I saw him lots and told him I loved him in his final months and I hope that was ebough.
---
I need a rant:

My mum was (is?) an alcoholic and this has led to her being bed bound and incontinent.

Part of me thinks she somehow engineered this to happen as she loves to be a victim.

She has LA carers who she’s abusive to. She says they steal her stuff and are horrible to her. She refuses to adapt the house so that they can bathe her so hasn’t washed in 2 years she says.

She rings me to complain about the carers and didn’t extend any words of sympathy to me or my brother when our dad (and her ex) passed away.

She could do so much to help herself like get her house adapted and ring occupational health to get some therapy to get her out of bed. I’m sick of having the same conversation with her. I’ve told her not to be abusive too.

It’s beyond frustrating. I have a full time job and she rings me during the day as if I’ve got nothing else on.

She’s done so many shitty things to us when she’s been drunk and sober and yet I am still there for her. I can’t quite go no contact because I’d feel so bad.

I want to be a good human but I think i might somehow be enabling her by taking her calls and listening to her.

 

[Urbanbunny]

Thank you for sharing, it's not an easy thing to do.

I'm no expert and thats sounds a very complicated situation.

Pre feigned ill health and then actual ill health, my mother was undeniably narcisstic.The atmosphere was always high tension, is she happy? Is she cross? Are we going to have a nice day? Are we going to celebrate a birthday? Christmas? Etc. I just never knew. As she aged all the health stuff kicked in and took over everything.

Nothing every changed. She would rather fuck us all than admit a failing on her part, or say sorry. She would rather never see her brother, children and grandchildren than accept she might be in the wrong. I can't quite get my head around that behaviour.

Sorry for Merailing, all I can say is try and get help/guidance. If she has NPD nothing you ever do will be right. Many people with NPD relatives have no choice but to go NC. You have to protect your own mental health.

V similar to you. She’s got 2 grandchildren and doesn’t care about a relationship with either of them. And yes she’d rather literally die on the hill she’s on than admit she’s fucked up. I just don’t understand if she’s insane / evil / has a personality disorder or a combination of all of these.

I was NC for a while but then I get the guilt. And it’s what she wants because sympathy is her fuel.

 

[cee-bee]

Thanks again yes ive had CBT before for different reasons and loved it! I always felt utter panic when I felt he was cross with what I was watching and went into fight or flight very quickly and either threw the remote down and stormed off or started shaking and panicking and fawning. I'm using the past tense because for the past few years I haven't touched the remote. He either puts a program on for us to watch, or the rest are his choices. The reason I dont touch it is because I'm avoiding any tension if i watch something he doesn't like. If rather not bother than risk him being cross with me.

I think I fear the actual feeling of fear, or the feeling of him not being happy with me. I feel I always have to prove I'm 'good'.

Are you a CBT therapist? You seem to know your stuff xx

what you’re feeling is not at all uncommon! I’ve felt it too. I’m glad you’ve accessed CBT before I hope you find it as useful as I have with tackling the passive communication/people pleasing/reactivity.

i really hope your husband is willing to work with you, let us know how it develops.

im not a therapist! Just an empathetic tattler

 

[Ablemabel]

This is exactly what i’m doing.

My mum often told us that she regrets having kids and that my youngest brother was a ‘mistake’. How we have stopped her from having a career. Our home was filthy, I was too embarrassed to ever have friends over. My achievements were dismissed and I was mocked for working hard. She never hugged us or told us that she loved us. Only when I married my husband who had a ‘normal’ home environment did it really hit me how broken my upbringing was.

I could have written this!

Much love x