Narcissistic and toxic parents #2

[ItsDatCuw]

Is this a passive aggressive way of trying to get you to come home from uni? It’s very odd. What did you reply to her?

I’d simply say- “I’m not coming all the way from uni to feed your dog when you are in the next room and fully capable of feeding him yourself” Draw attention to how ridiculous her request is.

It’s definitely possible! She knows I work until 8pm as well so it was very weird, though she would totally want me (in her very covert way of course) to leave classes and work, and run to her. I didn’t reply to her text but I saw her today and her first words were: “Did you not get my message yesterday about feeding the dog?” I told her that she knows I have classes until 5:30pm and work until 8pm, 10 miles away while she is 3 metres away from her dog; that she always goes to bed during the day and feeds him when she wakes at around 8pm; and that she never once asked me to do this before, so I found her request very bizarre.

She wouldn’t give me a straight answer and she was full of contradictions and shifty eyes. It was: “I always feed him at 6!”, “I don’t always go to bed!”, “I always feed him before I go to bed!”, “I was tired so knew I wouldn’t wake!”, “My alarm is broken!”. She looked so guilty and it was obvious she was just trying to cover herself. I think she expected me to just say: “Oh sorry, I didn’t see your message.”

Whatever it was about, I definitely don’t think it was actually about feeding him. Weirdly, when she tries to pull stuff like this lately, it nearly always involves her dog. She’s always been someone who needs two people so that she can play one against the another, so I’m wondering if this is just another version of that.
---

Worth remembering though that narcs feed off peoples’ reactions.

she knows her request is bizarre - how could she not?

if it were me, I’d grey rock. “I’m not able to come feed your dog”

your priority when interacting with a covert narc is protecting your own peace. What is her likely response to you pointing out how ridiculous the request is?

IME, my mum would maybe resort to calling me names “you’re so ungrateful” or maybe guilt tripping me “well I can’t feed the dog so now he’s going to starve and it’s your fault” or “you never do anything for me” etc etc.

IME with my own narc mother, the more I pushback with her, the more opportunity I give her to go off on a rant. The more ammo I give her to hurt me. Because the unjustness and the harshness and unfairness of her response always hurts me.
IME, she’s never going to suddenly realise her request is ridiculous. She’ll never be honest about her motives. She’ll never consider my POV. So it’s pointless trying to reason, which is why I grey rock.

pointing out how ridiculous she is gives some short term satisfaction, and helps me feel like I’m sticking up for myself. But ultimately it opens me up to more hurt when she responds with gaslighting or guilt and shaming. So over time I’ve learned that protecting my peace and ignoring her shitty texts is the best way to interact with her. I actually have her blocked on WhatsApp so I can control when and where I see her messages to me.

I’ll sometimes have a conversation with myself to validate how I’m feeling. “I’ve received this shitty annoying and confusing text, it feels so unfair and it’s unsettled me and I really want to stick up for myself and make her see how unfair she’s being”

then I’ll maybe point out to myself that narcs live off creating confusion and settling people. I tell myself that it is indeed, very unsettling and shitty and I validate my own feelings. Then I ask myself what outcome I want. Well, I want her to be fair. I want her to see my point of view. I want her empathy. I’ll then maybe rationalise that, she has never ever given those things to me in any conversation. So in lieu of that, what’s the next best thing?

the next best thing is peace of mind. And I don’t need her to realise her request is ridiculous to get that. I can give that to myself. If I believe it’s unreasonable and a stupid, unfair request - I don’t need the unreasonable and unfair person making the request to agree.

it’s been about maybe, 6 years? Since I realised my mum was very likely to be a covert narc. Protecting my peace of mind has always made me feel more contented and happier, but every person has to come to their own realisation on what works best for them.

You are spot on I think. My mum is also the queen of guilt-trips and I often feel as though her whole purpose of saying or doing something is to try and get me to “feel” something, whether it’s insecurity, confusion, feeling like I’m not good enough, etc., and I usually purposefully act like I either haven’t heard her, or I’m not aware of what she’s trying to do. Having said this, I often fall into the trap of letting her know how ridiculous she’s being. She is just SO covert though, that I often doubt my own judgement as well.

 

[allthingschocolate]

I think I’ve run out of resilience. I’ve gone through my life always trying to maintain a sense of “well what if things get better tomorrow?”. I don’t think that is there any more. Just once I’d like someone to look after me. My dad wasn’t the best dad or even around much but I know that he loved and actually liked me and he’s gone, my mum is the one left and im
No contact with her for my sanity. I’ve always been able to have a plan, I’ll just keep on, keep moving, next steps. But now it’s like what’s the point? Nothing gets any better. I’m so tired, everyone expects 100x more from me than themselves.

Sorry to hear you feel like this it can be very emotionally draining, I can relate and have posted on here before about my brother and my sister (I know it’s related to parents but I couldn’t find a thread for it) my brother in particular has used me a lot recently and like you I just ran out of steam, was fed up of being on egg shells around him and as of right now I’m currently no contact with him and I have to say it’s the best thing I’ve done to protect my mental wellbeing, my sister has also been vile and judgemental towards me, so again no contact with her too, I feel hugely at peace since doing it and not so on edge, so I would say do what feels right for you and put yourself first always if nothing else it will give you some much needed headspace

 

[Meringue22]

I'm the very same , in bed after taking two painkillers. I've just felt numb all day. It's like they can put a dark cloud over you for the day . I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I'm glad I found this thread, it helps to know its not all in my head and other people have gone through similar x I hope your migraine eases .

Thank you I’m glad I found this thread too. I think one of the hardest things is my sibling not seeing the side of our mum that I do. She thinks I bring it on myself. I don’t think she’d cope either if she had to deal with it! They really do put a dark cloud over us and ruin the day. It’s so hard not to let it. But I’m going to try and stop
my mum affecting me so much x

 

[Readingismyhobby]

I have found a very helpful podcast called “In sight - exposing narcissism” by Katie McKenna & Helen Villiers.
I find it difficult to listen to at times because it’s very relevant to my experience. But I have found it very helpful. They are on instagram as well.

 

[Beth1980]

When my children were younger they did see my parents but they decided to stop seeing them too, I do talk about them and occasionally it maybe slightly negatively but honestly, but wanted them to know I was the 'issue' not them.
It is hard when everyone has their parents love and support but worse when questioned why we have no contact as if we are at fault.

 

[Nadia Vulvokov]

I hope you get well soon and how typical of a narc to not cope with being faced with the truth

It would be worth reassuring your daughter that she absolutely did the right thing in telling you that she felt uncomfortable.

Thank you, I have reassured her loads and she's feeling a bit less frazzled today.

 

[HelloStereo]

Used as a bargaining chip. YES!!!

Used as a bargaining chip. YES!!!

And also the "and all I've ever done for you". I paid my own way through life. Working to get my own pocket money from the age of 13, baby sitting and doing stuff for neighbours and saving money. Paid all my own university fees and still asked to pay rent at home even though I had to tidy, do my own washing, buy my own groceries & pay my own bills!!!

Meanwhile golden child spent their money on clothes & nights out while NPs paid for their uni fees & accommodation!!

Haha yes, they act as if you owe them something for them being a parent to you, as if you appeared on their doorstep, not that they made a conscious decision to have you.

"Look I decided to clothe you and feed you why can't you recognise how amazing I am and that I should have access to you at all times regardless of how I treat you because we're FAMILY".

 

[svdwoodsen]

I'm sorry your father is like this. He sounds an unhappy person but that is not an excuse to bully others. It's good you have some distance between you so you can choose when or if you speak to him and any other boundaries you decide you need.

I'm estranged from my narc mother (father is deceased) but I waited far too long to walk away. We only get one shot at life and I now choose carefully who is in mine.

Thank you for saying that! I do think he is deeply unhappy or at the very least, frustrated with his own life, and I have compassion for that. I know he's a hard worker whose life just hasn't turned out the way he wanted and now that he's in his 60s, he is unlikely to get there. It's just hard to walk away even though I know it's the logical thing to do. I think the fact that I don't usually live near him helps a lot. When I come home during the holidays for short periods of time, he can actually be quite pleasant. But we decided to live near family as a result of the pandemic and it's been a dreadful experience with him moaning and yelling constantly. I worry the most for my mum, who lives with him and am afraid has to deal with the brunt of his negativity.

I'm sorry your dad is like this. What he's doing is emotional abuse to you and your mum. Typical narc too, their own achievements don't match up to their grandiose sense of self so they have to browbeat the people who have outdone them to protect their fragile ego.

Thank you for your kindness and insight! That definitely describes my father to a T! To be clear, we don't care if he's the most successful or rich man on the block, but it's been made very clear to us all that he had a different vision for how his professional life should've turned out and he's quite resentful about it. It honestly feels like he's transferred a lot of that resentment onto me and is trying to live vicariously through me by telling me how I should live my life and what I should accomplish. The hypocrisy emains that he didn't get there himself despite the effort he put in, so how can he be so sure that everything he says is the gospel? But my father is unable or unwilling to see that. He remains convinced that he's a misunderstood genius who has been taken advantage of by an evil and stupid world, and I'm one of the stupid people in it who doesn't appreciate him.

My brother has access to narc mother's bank account and due to a previous indiscretion where he 'accidentally' withdraw all her money, has to provide me with a bank statement each month and an explanation of any out of the ordinary amounts. Well he's done it again. He's withdrawn $10,000 with no explanation and he hasn't answered my email asking why. I'm giving him until Wednesday as that will be a week and then I'm going back to the lawyer

I'm so sorry to hear that. In what world is that kind of behaviour acceptable? Is your mother enabling this, because she should say something! Although if she's a narc like you've mentioned previously, I'm not sure if she'd be able to do something about it, at least not in a way that's fair to you.

 

[HitnMiss]

I had no idea this thread existed! I don't even know where to start tbh. I love my parents so much and they have always been so supportive of me and my sister. Even when we made decisions they didn't agree with, they always stood by us, so I'm so thankful for having them in my life.
3 years ago last month I met the man of my dreams and for a few months it was pure bliss. 4 months later we got engaged and we were so so happy. My family were a bit surprised, but were so happy for us and did a speech that brought tears to my eyes saying how happy they were to have F (my now husband) in the family. F's father on the other hand didn't even say congratulations. Only how his children (F and his sister) are what keep his mind occupied as he doesn't have a partner. I thought it was an odd speech, but brushed it off. We were supposed to get married a few months later, in August 2020.
F worked with his father, sister and brother in law and always had a difficult relationship with his father as everything always had to be his way. We were having a tough time planning the wedding because covid came along. He started battling depression due to all the family related issues and his father used that to his advantage as an excuse for us to not get married. He didn't want us to get married and convinced F he wasn't well enough to go ahead with a ceremony. He brought my dad into the picture telling him how unwell F was and to convince me to not go ahead. It was so so stressful.
We decided on a tiny civil ceremony at the castle where we got engaged. F told me on the day his father asked if he was sure.
We booked the religious ceremony for September 2021. F's sister filmed bits of our wedding and played it at their dad's birthday dinner. He was crying, naive me thought he was moved, but now I know they were tears of sadness.
Thankfully F improved and when his dad would start arguments, F started to answer back. His dad thought I was putting things in his head. He always hoped we'd split before our religious ceremony, so everything he needed from him wedding related, would be a huge issue. We found out my dad had cancer, he had emergency surgery and thankfully recovered. A few weeks before the wedding, my dad caught covid and didn't know if he could go to the wedding, it was so stressful. We did get married and my dad could go, but unfortunately it was a bit sad because all his family and guests barely spoke to us as F's dad and sister spread poison all accross.
As things were so bad, F was considering quitting.
We went on our honeymoon and 2 days after our return, F's dad said he'd take everything he bought for his son, should he decide to leave. He bought a house and car for F and his sister, so we thought we'd lose our home. Our worlds came crashing down. From then on, it was hell every single day. He told F how he's being manipulated by me, how he should get divorced, etc.
A few weeks later he fired F and we were so relieved to finally have some peace! But it's been 9 months and still no peace. Either he calls F using fake work related excuses and ends up saying awful things or has his friends call F saying how he misses his son. He told F he's welcome to come by as long as he goes alone. I just want peace! Needless to say this huge amount of stress causes me health related issues and so much tension in our marriage.
F's dad only purpose is to split us up. He's a dictator and such a horrible person. The husband of F's sister quit and left her because he couldn't take it anymore.
Just this week there was another attempt as it's our wedding annuversary next week and F is about to start his new job, so he's doing all he can to bring us stress!
He wants to have a relationship with F as if I don't exist, so he poisons him against me, but I refuse to let that happen. I exist and if there will be any type of relationship between F and his dad, I will be there, no matter how difficult it'll be for me. F is a family man and deep down has hope his dad would change. I know he won't, but I have to support him.
Why are people like this? It's so sad that people who are supposed to love their children hurt them so much.

I'm so sorry you're going through this Meg. Your FIL sounds like a definite narc. I don't have any advice but wanted to let you know I've read your post and empathise with you.

 

[Tea4Mee]

Heya not sure if posted already but I found this book extremely cathartic ~ incase it’s helpful for anyone else

 

[Ablemabel]

part of recovering from narcissistic abuse is learning to sit with uncomfortable feelings of guilt, and identifying when they are inappropriate

for anyone generally dreading seeing a narc parent… do you really deserve to feel guilt or shame? Who deserves to have their feelings prioritised, the victim of abuse or the perpetrators?

we spend our childhoods+ being told to put them before us at every turn so it feels uncomfortable and unnatural and ridden with shame.

sitting with uncomfortable feelings, and letting them pass/letting them go, is healing

Thank you that's helpful. I've just got to execute it now.

 

[Rodneytrotter]

I'm sorry, I agree, put the money to one side and let the emotions settle, ignore your family and remember you are entitled to what your gran left you.

Thank you. It has been emotional. Ive been scared to look at my phone this week for fear of what I'll receive next. And when I respond they all talk about it together and then I get a reply from another one. My husband has said he will talk on my behalf from now on at least.

 

[cee-bee]

My mum has died today - I cared for her for many years, but was a total narcissit with controlling to mental and emotional abuse. Not sure how I feel about things.

sorry to hear about your mum, I can only imagine the rollercoaster of emotions. Don’t be afraid to reach out to people or vent on here x

 

[Maid22]

Me again.havent heard if he's croaked it, really wish he would, so sick of hearing he's on the way out, I know I'm gona have a problem, I REALLY don't want my name in his obituary or on his headstone, but there's fuck all I can do unless I speak to the others, which I really don't want to do.

 

[alwaysdreaming]

No apparently he's at home, he hasn't spoken to me for over 10 years, the last time we spoke he was so nasty to me, I really don't like using the hate word, but I do hate him and my brother.

Hey lovely!
Your words broke my heart.
I hope it’s not too late to reach out. It’s been a busy few days. My baby is unwell.

How are things with your old man?

I totally understand.
It’s one thing cutting your family from your lives and then death crops up. Almost you have to forget your feelings and act out of duty.
One thing I am frightened off. As I have to relive everything.
Your human side wants to be there for your parents. It’s all a fantasy really if you have grown in a narcissistic environment.
Then your brain works overtime and you remember all the abuse, toxicity and recall the reasons you went no contact.
You have to do what’s right for you.
If you don’t want your name written on any headstone Have your say? You’re in control of your life and don’t worry about everyone else’s feelings.
Did they care about you ?

One thing you have to ask yourself would you regret not going. Even when they are dying they make you feel crappy. Would you make peace with yourself if you went. Almost like you know that’s the end.

You know ever since I had my baby whilst pregnant I cried most evenings wishing my siblings would be in my babies life. I got my wish come true and it was all of a fantasy. I regret it deeply.
It doesn’t take narcissists to go back to their roles. They can only hide for so long.
I can’t believe how selfish people and play the victim.

I am sorry you’re going through a hard time.
It’s shitty really. I wish I could give you a big hug.
Vent as much as you like I’ll monitor this thread a bit more.
I am happy to hear your collie is on the mend.

 

[BWGossip]

How did you train yourself not to react to what your toxic parent say? I'm visiting my parents (my mum asked and I felt too guilty to say no). At this point, I'm pretty good at ignoring my dad and not reacting to his comments. Except when he starts talking about current events. My work is all about current events, we see the horrifying aftermath in details everyday, we analyze everything and work on what is gonna happen (terrible stuff). It's like he enjoys other people pain, he says cruel things until I can't hold it anymore. It's stupid because I know he doesn't care, he only does it for fun.

The aftermath is terrible because my hands shake so bad, I can't do anything for 30mn, and I want to burst into tears like a child. I can't stop thinking about what he used to do when we dared stand up to him or disagree as kids. I hate how small he makes me feel when I'm in my 20s ffs.

Can you train yourself to be aloof? Or do you have any tips? Any book recommendations?

 

[Maid22]

One of the things I've dreaded has happened, I'm really not sure how I'm going to deal with it tbh.

 

[Rodneytrotter]

Hi everyone,
So me and my mum had a falling out a few weeks ago after she blew up at me over something really stupid- this sounds so pathetic but she literally had a go at me in the supermarket for “pissing her off for being like that” when I was merely standing with a trolley. Apparently I was being inpatient? For merely standing waiting for her to put things in the trolley? Bear in mind, I’m in my thirties, she practically yelled at me in a busy supermarket which was embarrassing enough with people staring at us. It came out of nowhere and was so ridiculous. As a family, we are all under a lot of stress at the moment and I genuinely think it was more a culmination of all that stress but on reflection she does have a habit of taking stress out on me.

I have anxiety and depression so I don’t call her out on it, we just have these arguments and she never apologises. I just let it go and we carry on like it never happened.

Until we had another argument less than a week after trolley gate and now I’ve just reached my limit- it’s literally the straw the has broke the camels back. As a result, I’ve shut myself off. I’ve read about the grey rock technique so I’ve literally shut down. Im not talking to her, I’m keeping out of her way. I’m just completely done. For my own mental health, this has really rocked me. i’m just looking after myself. I’m not bothering anyone, I’m not carrying anything on. I’m just completely done. All she needs to do is apologise but she won’t as she never has. We’ve not spoken for three weeks now.

So now, because I’m not giving her any response she’s been in my brothers ear. So this morning he has now blown up at me for being in a mood and telling me to fuck off and snap out of it. He has no idea what our arguments were about. All she has to do is apologise and we can move on. But then I know that she’ll only apologise in words only and not actually mean it so what’s the point?

Not sure what else to do. Not sure why I’m writing this all here really. I’m determined to stick to grey rocking as she has really upset me but i just don’t know what to do now.

Oh wow it's bad enough you've had to deal with your mum's outbursts without your brother getting involved.
Can you say to your brother that you don't want to discuss your mum with him?

 

[RandomFrog]

(try my best not to be identifiable)

I get married within the week, we are big on the DIY side and with that we keep adding jobs on especially last minute I've been promised help from my parents which I've 'had' today, they've come in and tried to add a finishing touch to something that's cost us 100s of £s and hours of our time

I've specifically asked them not to do what they have done whilst I nipped out, came back and of course wasn't happy so I said so and my dad (who arrived drunk) stressed at me which then created a huge arguement where he has ended it by calling me a slag. He and I have both said he's not coming to the wedding within the argument.

We've now had the afternoon wasted on me feeling down, sad, depressed and also feeling bad for my mum who didn't do anything wrong and we've now got to deal with this before the wedding in a matter of days

Not really sure what I'm aiming for here, suppose it's nice to write it down sometimes 🫤

No attempt to apologise/contact me from my dad, really unsure what to do - this is just sucking all of the fun out of wedding prep 🫤

 

[call.me.coco]

Latest update- she’s tried to get me into conversation this morning like nothing has happened after three weeks of not talking. I’ve just continued to grey rock her.

Is this because getting my brother to have a go on her behalf didn’t work?

Now I’m like “you are not going to get this apology so this is the best you are going to get from her, just back down” but then I’m still pissed that she’s not acknowledging her behaviour.

My mum does this.

She’ll reappear and message/speak as if NOTHING has happened.

It must be their way of avoiding an apology? Maybe to turn things on you so it looks like you’re the one being difficult/ holding a grudge?

It completely dismisses your feelings.

I need to have a read about this grey rocking method as its been mentioned a few times.

Sorry I have no advice to offer but wanted to let you know you’re not alone.