Narcissistic and toxic parents #2

[Slaybutter]

@rainbowlemon I really admire your strength

 

[Ablemabel]

V similar to you. She’s got 2 grandchildren and doesn’t care about a relationship with either of them. And yes she’d rather literally die on the hill she’s on than admit she’s fucked up. I just don’t understand if she’s insane / evil / has a personality disorder or a combination of all of these.

I was NC for a while but then I get the guilt. And it’s what she wants because sympathy is her fuel.

I suppose ultimately it matters not what the diagnosis is. It's the outcome/effect that matters.

@cee-bee posted some very wise words above. I've survived by reading up lots on how to deal with narcisstic parents and going no contact. I was not surviving before that and it's bloody hard but it's about undsrstanding where you find yourself and acknowledging it's not your fault.

much love

 

[Bettyboo2475]

You may not come from a loving family unit but you are breaking the cycle by building one of your own which takes courage, compassion and love. You’re giving to your kids what you never had! Saying to you what I often need to hear myself xx

What we say to eachother is very much what we want to believe ourselves. Hearing your words of comfort have really helped me tonight, thank you. Sending you love too xx

 

[allthingschocolate]

Your bro knows what he is doing, he is trying to piss you off. Don't lower yourself to his standards or fall for his tricks. Do not contact him about this. You told him not to contact you, he is throwing a childish tantrum for attention.

Thankyou so much for the advice I am definitely not going to give him the satisfaction of contacting him even though i am extremely annoyed and upset with him, from what my daughter has told me, my ex also did not appreciate being dragged into it either my brother is a real narcissist, really appreciate you taking the time to respond to me
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Aww I'm sorry you had to deal with that at Christmas. Probably he felt he was losing control when you stopped contact so he's trying to manipulate how people (your ex) perceive you.

You're right he shouldn't have involved your ex, it's between you and him.

Thankyou totally agree with everything you have said and I will also not be contacting him either, gutted the way things have turned out but so fed up of being used and treated like crap it’s time I cut him out of my life once and for all (been a long time coming) Thankyou for taking the time to reply to me

 

[unwanted.opinions]

My sister apparently went into my mum’s kitchen last week and innocently asked her, “Where’s the dog? Is he outside?”

My mum angrily answered her in a haughty, bitchy voice, “Who’s the dog???! He has a name, you knooooow!!”

The dog is the golden child. Since then she’s been really off with my sister and treating her very coldly. She’s also started calling my sister’s daughter (7) “the girl” and won’t call her by her name, as revenge. All over calling a dog - a dog!

She sounds unhinged!!! My dog has a name but I call her the dog sometimes.
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Is anybody else here filled with dread over Christmas fast approaching? A part of me feels sorry that if they come to us for Christmas they’d be on their own but the other part of me is saying you’re in your 30s and your father is still making you cry. He’s been giving me the silent treatment for weeks now over something so small it’s laughable. Thinking of saying my family and I have covid so will be isolating for the week. Wake me up in 2024

Yep. Just makes me realise what a cunt the thing that birthed me is. If I didn’t have a horse and dog I’d be going away over Christmas to visit my sister who lives abroad.

 

[Nadia Vulvokov]

My daughter turns 2 next month.
My in-laws live 2hrs away and my family live 3.5hrs away. Last year for her 1st birthday we had a small celebration at home and invited both sides of the family. My mum turned down the invite as its too far and she doesn’t get on with my in-laws. My mum said we should travel up instead the next day and she’ll do a little party at her house. My in-laws accepted our invite and came to our house and we had a really nice celebration.

My mum made a huge fuss that I had chosen to celebrate with my in-laws instead of with her. She was organising a party at her house and when we went up she kept saying how pointless it was her doing this as we’re not celebrating on the actual birthday but the next day.

I don’t want another dampener this year. I do not want to travel up and waste my whole weekend. In the past 3 years she has come down to visit no more then 3-4 times and had left early each time. We are expected to come up to visit every month and even then she always makes comments that we never visit.

She has already mentioned about doing another party at her house this year. I don’t want to go up. I want to host my daughter’s birthday and if she chooses not to come then that’s her choice. Why should I have to always be the one doing the travel. She’s perfectly fit, owns a car and could easily afford a train/coach ticket. The last excuse I got was that it’s ‘too cold’ to travel.

Sorry for the rant.

Sorry that you are in this situation. Why do Narcs switch up like that when they've already said they'd do something?! My own mum does it when she takes my daughter out shopping for example, and then when she brings her home makes a point of saying how much money she's spent! Sometimes I've felt so bad I've given her some money back and yes she took it!

Having stood up to my own mum over new year, my advice is to stick to your guns. Like you say, you will be travelling a long way and then possibly faced with awkwardness and passive aggressive behaviour. It's hard but you might feel lighter for standing your ground! Hope your daughter has a lovely birthday.

ETA you could counter argue its too cold to travel with a toddler?

 

[griftalo]

How do people deal with the guilt and anxiety of first being no contact?

I didn’t feel any guilt, none at all. I’d had enough, so I’m not sure. Maybe focus on how they’re not feeling guilt about treating you like shit

 

[Rodneytrotter]

Even though I'm no contact, i will never be fully free from my dad until I die. He always finds a way to try and control me.

 

[shadowcat5]

New to this thread but just wondering how you guys have coped with a narc parent when can’t just cut off contact with them? My mother is the narc but my dad is a wonderful person and my young daughter doesn’t see my mothers narc ways and adores her so I couldn’t just cut contact for that reason.. but she’s becoming more and more unbearable and it’s grinding me down now. One minute she’s nice as pie and the next she’s really nasty, making lies up and causing me and my sisters to argue and fall out.

I have a similar circumstance. I can't cut her off because it's too much hassle, and she runs to other family members to nag me. I'm also an only child so there is no other sibling as a buffer.

I personally follow the shallow, off topic of me talk and disengage technique (it's not a real technique lol). I keep conversations light and about her, I answer minimally about myself and when she starts her nonsense I disengage. This way I give her 0 ammo.
So for example, she will kick off because I am not doing as she pleases (One time she kicked off because I didn't want to take extra t shirts on holiday with me.) so I will say "I am happy like this." or "I am fine with it this way so no worries". She will keep trying to argue but I will stick to the wall of 'no worries' until she gets bored. We're at a stage where she stops bothering after 2 attempts now because she knows I will just no worries her off.
It's hard going and sometimes I do fall into the trap of arguing with her or the back and fourth and it wears me down but I am working on it.

 

[Meg1912]

I'm so sorry you're going through this Meg. Your FIL sounds like a definite narc. I don't have any advice but wanted to let you know I've read your post and empathise with you.

Thank you so much HitnMiss!
It's really sad that some people are so evil, want to see their children unhappy and go out of their way to make that happen. A friend once told me that unhappy people don't want to see others happy and it's so true.
It's quite sad as I feel we've been robbed of what was supposed to be such a happy period of our lives and this whole experience has completely changed me into a different person. I'm constantly stressed, have health anxiety and a couple years ago I wanted to try to get pregnant and now I feel completely differently about it.
I forgot to say I'm in my late 30's and my husband is in his early 40's.

 

[Maid22]

@TheGlossy I'm so sorry you're still dealing with this ( I remember your posts from ages ago) I have no advice, I went no contact over 10 years ago, my old man died last December, my ' brother', knocked the door to tell us, but he's a nasty narc, so he has to deal with my 'mother', and Ive always known why he's done this, he's after the house and money, he's only ever thought about himself, hopefully karma will catch up with him.

 

[Maid22]

@rainbowlemon I know you from other threads on here, you're very knowledgeable and kind hearted, just want to send you a

 

[Readingismyhobby]

Does anyone struggle with friendships, I just can't relate to people, I don't trust anyone and always isolate from people. I'm then consumed with depression and feelings if inadequacy. And I'm sure people think I'm weird. I just cant explain my distrust if people because of my history with my parents

I hadn’t thought about the friends angle. I have friends for a couple of years and then it finishes.

 

[cee-bee]

I think I’ve run out of resilience. I’ve gone through my life always trying to maintain a sense of “well what if things get better tomorrow?”. I don’t think that is there any more. Just once I’d like someone to look after me. My dad wasn’t the best dad or even around much but I know that he loved and actually liked me and he’s gone, my mum is the one left and im
No contact with her for my sanity. I’ve always been able to have a plan, I’ll just keep on, keep moving, next steps. But now it’s like what’s the point? Nothing gets any better. I’m so tired, everyone expects 100x more from me than themselves.

has anything specific brought this feeling on?

when I felt this way (thankfully I haven’t in a while) I’d go for a nice walk in nature, get a coffee and have a treat, then watch a funny TV show that would make me howl with laughter and take my mind off it.

I think you’ve got to ground yourself in the moment and not waiting for tomorrow for things to get better, but appreciating the good things as they are if that makes sense.

I understand that craving of someone to take care of you. But you can take care of you.

 

[Slaybutter]

One of my (now ex) friends told me that I should cherish my mother because I only have one. And when I told her that my mother is toxic and I’d prefer to not have to speak to her again she called me a selfish bitch and hasn’t spoken to me since!! (Her loss)

For some people there are no words to describe them! Her loss for sure

 

[HitnMiss]

Another massive rant needed here about my MIL!!!!

Husband & I been together almost 15 years, and have 2 young children together. My MIL has caused problems for years now, but the most recent issue has been the final nail in the coffin for me.

Over the years, there have been various disrespectful comments made towards me - including telling me she had thought I wasn’t good enough for her son, telling my family she’d be closer to her daughters children than mine & husbands children (whilst pregnant with our first child and her first grandchild), causing an argument days after the birth of our second child because we “hadn’t let her see her grandchild” - despite visiting in hospital and her cancelling a visit because of the weather!

The most recent issue though is the last straw for me. Without going into too much detail - she recently divulged information/concerns regarding another family member to my husband, who acted on this information, creating fallouts within their family. She also disclosed this information to MY mum and told her about these concerns. She was very unhappy when my husband said she needs to be honest with the family member about disclosing personal/confidential information to him, as it then would look bad in her. She then proceeded to further discuss the situation with my mum, telling lies about my husband in the process (saying he had given my MIL an ‘ultimatum, which categorically did not happen). When my husband addressed the issues with her (via a telephone call), she flew off the handle. Threatened to kill herself several times, said me & my family had “had it in for her for years” (which my husband even said is absolute bullsh*t) and that she is worried we will stop her seeing the kids.

Now, I personally believe what she said is emotional abuse and blackmail, and it is unacceptable and unforgivable IMO to say those things to anyone, never mind your own child. However, my husband wants to address the problems with her and maintain a relationship with her despite the continuous aggro and problems she has caused us. I’ve said I want nothing more to do with her as I feel what she said is unforgivable. She is a toxic, nasty person and not the sort of person I want around me or our children. I have explained to him I have bit my tongue on so many occasions in the past, and on each occasion the issue has just been swept under the carpet with no repercussions, hence why she feels she can get away with such toxic behaviour.

Any advice, as I don’t know where we go from here.

What a terrible situation for you to be in. It does sound like you need to cut off contact with her. It might take your husband a bit longer to realise it. I hope she backs off.

 

[FlipFlop0706]

I’m a week in to barely talking with my mother after she went off at me on Good Friday over me merely proving that she was wrong about something. It was an innocuous tiff where I was able to prove that she was wrong about something really ridiculous. Then it turned into me apparently disrespecting her because whilst she was ranting at me, I was driving and told her to shut up because I needed to concentrate. I accept that I shouldn’t have said that but I was that taken aback my legs were physically shaking, I felt shaky and I just wanted her to stop so we could get home.

She then said that I’d ruined what was a nice day, how manipulative I am, pointing out all the things she knows I am depressed about. (I have severe social anxiety and depression), gaslight and accused me of doing all things that I hadn’t even done.

Next day, she comes to me and says “come on” to try and resolve the issue and make peace with me. No apologies over what she said. No acceptance that she was wrong. No sorry for saying all the things she knows really really hurt me. I apologised for telling her to shut up. Then asked her simply- do you accept you were wrong? I could have let it go but one of my main issues every time we argue is that she has no accountability for her role. “No because I don’t care”. I don’t care about it either but it’s the narcissism for never saying sorry for the most stupidest of things that I can’t move on from. So I asked her to please leave me alone as I don’t want to argue with her. I’m just done. I don’t have the energy or the headspace for it. She refused and then went off at me again. This time saying “let’s pretend we like each other” which again has really really upset me. She’s my mum- I bloody love her but for her to say that to me has just killed me.

Not sure why I’m putting this here really. Part of me is questioning whether I’m overreacting and should have just made peace when she told me to “come on” but then I don’t think I am? I think the reason it’s upset me so much is that I accessed CBT therapy to help my anxiety and depression and one of the main things I learnt from it was “would a person who cared for you say all of the negative things you think about yourself? Well, my own mother directly said all the things I’m insecure about directly to my face and clearly believes them to be true of me so it’s just affirmed everything I think about myself. I don’t think I can come back from that.

Latest update- I’m now being passive aggressively told that her blood pressure is sky high. Said to my brother whilst making sure I was in earshot. Is this a manipulation tactic? I just ignored it.

 

[Urbanbunny]

I think there will always be an “inner child” who loves and desperately craves love back from our parents. It’s completely natural. It’s a huge bond to be deprived of, it’s the type of relationship that can’t really be replicated. So it’s natural to always hold onto that craving I think.

I mean, calling you an awful teenager is pathetic. Most teenagers are awful. They are kids.

she calls you an awful teenager because you are likely a good person, and she has nothing else to shame you with. Shame is the ultimate weapon of any narcissistic. Of any abuser or predator in general really. She’s trying to shame you to get you to behave how she wants. It’s a classic tactic. I’d recommend laughing it off “ha, yeh I did throw a couple of tantrums as a teen didn’t I? I was just a kid, I loved what a great sense of humour I had though/I loved how good I was at plying Mario Kart etc etc.”

it acknowledges that, maybe you did have your moments as a teen? But in the same sentence shows you are compassionate and forgiving towards yourself. It also kinda neutralises a lot of criticism because ultimately, you were a kid. A kid who likely needed love and guidance that never showed up. For a lot of narcs, when they see a sore spot they hone in on it and weaponise it. It looses a lot of power if it’s something you can joke about, or if it doesn’t seem to be bothering you. But that’s just a suggestion, sometimes plain old stone walling is the best course of action.

she doesn’t thank you because she feels she is owed all of the things you do for her. It’s her right, she wouldn’t expect otherwise, so why would she thank you for that? You’re right, it’s entirely reflective of who she is as a person though.

the fact you can show empathy and hold love for this awful woman is reflective of your character. Narcs see it as weakness, but it’s not. Because ultimately narcs are deeply happy, lonely people. In contrast, People who are compassionate and empathetic tend to be surrounded by love, to have deeper human connections. Are generally better people and make the world better just by being themselves.

Jesus, it’s like you know her.

She’s exactly like that - at my first wedding she got completely drunk and embarrassed me by saying stuff like “I’m the mother of the bride, do x for me”. At my second wedding she told me the day before she wasn’t coming even though we’d booked and paid for dinner for her and had her as a witness.

I think she’s desperately unhappy and embarrassed that my brother and I are more loving parents to our girls than she could be to us and can’t quite begin to deal with it, so just drinks and runs away and is horrible.

I’ve certainly never broken my daughter’s nose, which she did to me when I was 17 then told me it was my own fault. I had a kitchen knife because I was so freaked out and scared and couldn’t cope with my emotions so she hit me in the face and then said the police wouldn’t be interested because it was a domestic.

 

[cee-bee]

One of the things that made me doubt my own judgement with my mum and where I actually gaslit myself, was when she would get extremely angry if she thought that someone else had insulted or disrespected me. Because of this, I would think “If she gets this annoyed over someone else disrespecting me, then there’s no way she’s doing it to me - I must be imagining it all.” What I didn’t realise until much later was that, in her mind, her children were her possessions and hers alone to abuse. It wasn’t that she was offended for me, it was more like “How dare they use my possession - only I am allowed to play those games with my possession!” - like a child throwing a tantrum when they’ve seen someone else play with their toys. Realising this was a fairly sad lightbulb moment, but an important one in realising that I’m not actually imagining her behaviour.

Those lightbulb moments are very bittersweet…

 

[Readingismyhobby]

Spoiler: TW: death

My narc mother died last week. This is brutal, but my experience was that even in advancing age and ill health, things did not change. I was no contact for 5 years but I did go to see her the week before she died. Even then, patterns of behaviour continued to filter through.

We cannot change how someone else behaves. Some people can't/won't change even in the face of things that other people would find shocking (i.e sacrificing having a relationship with grandchildren). All we can do is manage our own behaviour and reactions etc. easier said than done at times and it really does make things quite the headfuck when expectations of how we should behave surround us daily

However no contact helped me. I didn't believe that it would be possible for me to do that for a very, very long time. My anxiety was through the roof before and I finally accepted that absolutely nothing I could do would change matters, I could do nothing right, whatever I did.

I suppose what I'm trying to say (badly) is put yourself first and set and manage your own boundaries and always talk to others because there are many, many of us out there with the same lived experiences.

Thanks for your post. I’m sorry you have been exposed to a narc mother. Mine was diagnosed last week with stage 3 lung cancer. I have spent years protecting myself against her, and no I have this.
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Sorry, but I just need to talk to people who understand.... It's been 2 years since I went no contact with my dad, which, once i'd come to terms with everything, has been peaceful! However today I received a letter from an aunt saying that she knows I no longer speak to my dad and when she asked him why he said "he doesn't know". She went on to say that if I dont tell her then she can't help me.

I have no idea why she thinks I need her help or why it's any of her business why I'm not speaking to him? I'm really upset to hear that my dad said he doesn't know why we don't speak. It almost feels like he's done nothing and I'm just a cruel person who is not speaking for no reason. Or that I went through all of that just for him to claim 'he doesnt know'. It absolutely broke my heart to go no contact but it was the right thing to do. This letter has taken me back to a bad place and my anxiety is off the scale

Ignore the contact from your aunt. It’s your dad instigating a “fishing trip”. Keep up with the non-contact, it’s the best way to protect yourself.
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Advice needed please..

So my nephews Holy communion is coming up in 3 weeks time... there is a meal booked for afterwards, all family invited .

These are the things that I find really stressful, as my mother will single me out or do & say things to trigger me. I have chosen to look after my wellbeing in the last 2-3 months by being distant. When I told her on phone this evening that my daughters and I would not be going , she turned it back on my saying... you can't do that, your brother will be so disappointed as he has always attended your things (not always) just guilt tripping me here , the usual she then said ... have you not asked "my teenage daughter" does she want to go, or are you stopping her too?


I'm really exhausted by this

She always uses my teenage daughter against me , making out that I'M the problem always. Please can I have advice on how to deal with this situation.

Decide what is the best thing for you to do. My mother is the queen of guilt tripping and it’s an evil way to behave. Speak to your brother directly and tell him what your decision is. Ignore your mother. She is using your daughter as your “weak spot”.