Narcissistic and toxic parents #2

[Rodneytrotter]

I remember this weird thing my mum used to do quite a lot:

She would ask me if I thought she was fat. If I answered no she would call me a liar, if I said yes she would say I'm nasty. And if I refused to answer she would pester the life out of me until I did.

 

[Chandler Bing]

Thank you. It has made me cry that someone I don’t know is there for me more than my own Mum I think I just needed to vent.
---

Thank you. She cares in her own way on some level, but she has always been terrible when it comes to empathy and is dismissive of mental health. She is also very self centred - makes everything about herself.

Remember, we've all been there one way or another, so we know exactly what you're going through with her.

Deep breaths

 

[Slaybutter]

I spoke to my mother today on the phone. After fifty minutes of talking, she casually mentions that she heard on the radio I will be losing my healthcare coverage in April. This is totally new information to me. She said she wasn’t going to mention it and when I asked her why she said it’s because she did not want to have the bad news coming from her She should never have been allowed to have kids ISWTG.

I always forget what she is like

 

[Jj2431]

Hey everyone.

Can I ask for some advice please?

As a child I was physically and emotionally abused by my dad. He was also emotionally neglectful. I have a sister who never experienced this treatment and who is the golden child. I am the black sheep. My dad was a heavy drinker when I was a child. As an adult, he apologised for his mistakes and vowed to do better and occasionally he has but he does the following...

- He still drinks a lot. Mainly at weekends but he's drunk every weekend. I'm never invited to these outings they have but it's always my parents and sister, despite them going to a pub on the next street to my house.

- He didn't congratulate my husband upon passing his driving test in January and when we got a car proceeded to go cold with me for 2 months and didn't come to see his grand children. He often goes cold with my mum for reference and won't speak to her for weeks on end and won't tell her why.

- Him and my sister are passive aggressive towards me. They both like to brag about themselves and tear others down. My sister even went as far to say that my niece from my Brother in law looks like my friends child (who she has called ugly many a time so I knew what she was saying).

This going to the pub near my house happens nearly every week and not once has he thought to nip in to see my kids for half an hour before he starts drinking. He's seen them 2/3 times in 6 months. He would say well we have a car so why don't we go and see him but am I being unreasonable for thinking why should I make effort when he doesn't and that he's the one with things to prove?

Anyway, he's invited us for a get together at his house next weekend. He's wrote it on the family group chat so my teenager and seen it. Alcohol will be involved (naturally) and usually we go but knowing he hasn't bothered to come see the kids when he's been around the corner every week is making me want to say no and maybe confront if he asks why. I don't want the kids to be in the middle of a war zone but equally he's taking the piss surely?

It's like kids birthday parties. He comes, eats the food and talks to my sisters partner. He used to be more involved when there was alcohol but I stopped giving alcohol at kids parties years ago. He refuses to accept he has a drinking issue. Other family members have confirmed I'm not going mad and he drinks a lot etc. What would you do? I'm at the end of my tether.

 

[Ablemabel]

I can only echo all the advice. You are obviously a kind and empathetic person who hopes that preppie can change. Your mother unfortunately doesn't seem capable of this. She is a grown up and so is your brother. They can sort this out going forward. You owe nothing other than to yourself.

 

[Rodneytrotter]

Hello everyone a few 'thinking out loud' thoughts here

I posted recently about my husband.... I've realised this week that I constantly monitor him to check that he is OK with me. I've watched what i want on TV this week and been fine (albeit a bit nervous) until... I had the news on, and he started ranting at the topic and i became nervous and switched it off. My dad was a big ranter he would rant all time and it always stressed me out as a child because if anyone disagreed he would verbally slaughter them.

In fact the catalyst for me going no contact was when he had a massive rant about women wanting equal rights and I reacted massively.

Also the other day my friend took ages to reply to my message which is unlike her. Instead of thinking 'oh she's probably just busy' I instantly wondered what I'd done wrong and couldn't relax until she had replied and I knew she was ok with me. Once she had replied I felt so happy.

There is no real point to this except I do believe these feelings are down to attachment issues from childhood.

I have been non contact with my dad for 2 years now. The past few days I've been feeling guilty and wondering if I've made a mistake and whether I have been dramatic in going no contact. Then I remind myself about how peaceful life is now.
---

My mum has never apologised to me for anything. If I explain to her why i’m upset etc she turns it back to herself. How she is blamed for everything. How she is a bad mum. How she hates her life, the list goes on. When I limit contact as a result she reappears after a while as if nothing has happened.

She has made really cutting remarks about me not having children in the past. When we had a baby and I had to be kept in for a few days she was a complete nightmare. Calling me whilst at the hospital and blaming me for the difficult birth I had. I was constantly thinking of her when my focus should have been on my sick baby and my recovery. It was a time I really needed the support of a ‘mum’ and just didn’t get it.

I’m sorry so many of us have similar experiences.

No they don't apologise. Unless it's a sarcastic 'sorry for breathing'or something'
---

My mum has never apologised to me for anything. If I explain to her why i’m upset etc she turns it back to herself. How she is blamed for everything. How she is a bad mum. How she hates her life, the list goes on. When I limit contact as a result she reappears after a while as if nothing has happened.

She has made really cutting remarks about me not having children in the past. When we had a baby and I had to be kept in for a few days she was a complete nightmare. Calling me whilst at the hospital and blaming me for the difficult birth I had. I was constantly thinking of her when my focus should have been on my sick baby and my recovery. It was a time I really needed the support of a ‘mum’ and just didn’t get it.

I’m sorry so many of us have similar experiences.

No they don't apologise. Unless it's a sarcastic 'sorry for breathing'or something'

 

[Shimmering]

narcs make everything about them. They probably know they are bad parents but it’s uncomfortable for them. They can never admit to any personal failings, that’s terrifying. That’s why they can’t ever apologise.

so when their offspring are loving, they don’t see it as that. They see it as a mirror being held up to them and forcing them to see their own inadequacies. And that’s a black hole for them, absolutely terrifying. So yeh, I think you’re probably right that a lot of you and your brothers behaviour is probably very difficult for her

because ultimately narcissism is bourne out of trauma.. for whatever reason our parents developed it as a coping mechanism probably early in childhood. The narcissicissm is there to cushion up a fragile, broken self esteem. That’s why they can’t ever risk saying sorry, or acknowledging their flaws. That’s why they don’t have room to think about other peoples’ perspectives, or empathise. It’s sad really, likely through no fault of their own they’ve been turned into these shells of human beings, lost and unhappy and creating harm all around them.

Holy crap reading that post just triggered a deep buried memory for me of being affectionate to my dad when I was small (under 10) and him telling me to stop being a floozy.

My relationship with my dad has very much shaped my life, broken me at times. I'm 40 now and healing from my traumatic upbringing. My dad doesn't have NPD I don't think but has narcissistic traits. I was the first born and got the full force of it unfortunately.

My dad can be very supportive and kind but can also suddenly say and do the most extremely hurtful things when you least expect it. It seems to run in the family as I frequently feel the urge. My paternal grandmother was very similar. I do fight it though, which makes me different. I very much take the attitude of I will behave the way I know I should behave, rather than giving in to this monster inside that wants me to be a cunt to people. It has helped me enormously.

My dad does apologise, he always has done. The difficult thing is he doesn't change his behaviour.

I live near him and see him a lot. I've just learnt to keep interactions light and breezy, and I ignore any unwelcome or stupid comments. Growing up I worshipped my dad and was desperate for his approval. But it never came and I am free from the feeling of needing it now. I know who my dad is and how he behaves and I accept him for who he is. I protect myself but I also am grateful to him for the good things he did, and he was in many ways a dedicated parent.

 

[Rodneytrotter]

You don't need a solicitor to write a letter to demand that your gran's estate is distributed in accordance with her will. (And to be fair, the expensive solicitor also said that)
Don't worry about your dad, if he kicks off, just tell him to do one, it's literally none of his business. You just need to draft a basic letter, something like this ...

Dear grasping auntie.

I am writing to state my intention to claim my share of my grandmother's estate, as detailed in her last will and testament, a copy of which is currently held by me.
As executor, you will understand that it is your legal responsibility to ensure that the estate is distributed according to her wishes. Please note that I have absolutely no desire to relinquish my share to you, nor to anyone else.
If you feel that you are unable to distribute the estate as per the will, you are welcome to rescind your duties, whereby a new executor may be appointed. I have spoken with my lawyer who advises that, should you attempt to deprive me of my rightful inheritance, legal action can be taken against you, along with steps to remove you as executor.
I look forward to next hearing from you, with a full breakdown of the account, along with details of when I can expect my inheritance.
Kind Regards
RodneyTrotter.

It might put a rocket up her backside, and hopefully she'll realise that she can't just pocket your money!

Aww thank you so much! I'm going to send this to her next week.

 

[HitnMiss]

My mum has died today - I cared for her for many years, but was a total narcissit with controlling to mental and emotional abuse. Not sure how I feel about things.

Sorry to hear that. Take care of yourself and know you did the right thing by her.

 

[Beth1980]

I’ve been happily NC for 6 years but I’m getting alllll the guilt trips now because she’s in hospital. My sister is a saint because she’s looking after them both, and I’m heartless because I’m not falling for all the “only one mum” nonsense. It’s a small town and everyone I bump into has an opinion on it. Ironically, she’s spent her whole life trying to get diagnosed with something serious and get into hospital, she’ll be loving it!

The feeling of having to cut off parent/s is bad enough never mind having to think about how other family members etc may view things. For a while I went no contact with my grandparents because I thought they would take my narcs side when I caused an issue by wanting to move out of the family home.

 

[FlipFlop0706]

Hi everyone,
So me and my mum had a falling out a few weeks ago after she blew up at me over something really stupid- this sounds so pathetic but she literally had a go at me in the supermarket for “pissing her off for being like that” when I was merely standing with a trolley. Apparently I was being inpatient? For merely standing waiting for her to put things in the trolley? Bear in mind, I’m in my thirties, she practically yelled at me in a busy supermarket which was embarrassing enough with people staring at us. It came out of nowhere and was so ridiculous. As a family, we are all under a lot of stress at the moment and I genuinely think it was more a culmination of all that stress but on reflection she does have a habit of taking stress out on me.

I have anxiety and depression so I don’t call her out on it, we just have these arguments and she never apologises. I just let it go and we carry on like it never happened.

Until we had another argument less than a week after trolley gate and now I’ve just reached my limit- it’s literally the straw the has broke the camels back. As a result, I’ve shut myself off. I’ve read about the grey rock technique so I’ve literally shut down. Im not talking to her, I’m keeping out of her way. I’m just completely done. For my own mental health, this has really rocked me. i’m just looking after myself. I’m not bothering anyone, I’m not carrying anything on. I’m just completely done. All she needs to do is apologise but she won’t as she never has. We’ve not spoken for three weeks now.

So now, because I’m not giving her any response she’s been in my brothers ear. So this morning he has now blown up at me for being in a mood and telling me to fuck off and snap out of it. He has no idea what our arguments were about. All she has to do is apologise and we can move on. But then I know that she’ll only apologise in words only and not actually mean it so what’s the point?

Not sure what else to do. Not sure why I’m writing this all here really. I’m determined to stick to grey rocking as she has really upset me but i just don’t know what to do now.

Latest update- she’s tried to get me into conversation this morning like nothing has happened after three weeks of not talking. I’ve just continued to grey rock her.

Is this because getting my brother to have a go on her behalf didn’t work?

Now I’m like “you are not going to get this apology so this is the best you are going to get from her, just back down” but then I’m still pissed that she’s not acknowledging her behaviour.

 

[TreeTrunksApplePie]

jeez that’s awful. I really hope the best for your son and your own recovery.

you need to remove that woman from your life. You were at the one of the lowest points in your life and she came to drag you down further and delight in it. She’ll never be the mother you deserve. Your son doesn’t deserve to grow up seeing his mother being treated that way.

even though I know and have experienced it first hand, reading it here and hearing about it… it just never shocks me. How narcissistic people are able to create that cognitive dissonance and truly shut off their empathy. I can’t stop but absolutely marvel at how awful they can be while being totally and utterly convinced they are a saint. It’s utterly baffling.

i severely limit my contact with my parents. My narc mother called about my upcoming wedding. She desperately wants me to include my (also very damaged and very narcissist) sister. I don’t really know why. To ease her own guilt? To portray the perfect family to everyone? I’m not sure.

but my sister was cruel and violent to me from a very young age. She has driven me to depressive episodes. She’s lucky to even get an invite in all honesty. And even though I barely speak to my mother, every single time it hurts. Because even by subtlety suggesting I invite my sister to X event or let her do Y… it’s like my mother is purposefully ignoring all the bullying I endured at the hands of my sister. And she ignored it (and continues to) for her own peace of mind. She has truly never, ever prioritised me one iota.

these people are poison. Even the slightest bit of contact has the potential to hurt.

I didn’t speak to my dad for two years and he found a way to hurt me (by treating my sibling to a huge gift of money at a time I was struggling). He relished in my finding out.

all we can do is position ourselves to be in the best mental place possible, through distance from them and by surrounding ourselves with good people.

you mention your MIL being a totally different kettle of fish. Mine is the same. It was part of a wake up call for me, to see the disparity between how our mothers treated us. My partner has such a good relationship with his mum and she’s loving and supportive of him. I’ll never have the close, mother-daughter bond with her. But she’s the closest I’ll have to a mother now, so I work on prioritising that relationship.

Thank you. I do think you’re spot on with the mother in law thing and I’m definitely trying to focus more energy there. I don’t talk in detail to people other than my partner about my mum’s behaviour at that time. It was only last year and, not sure if others get this too but, I get embarrassed to say I have issues with my mum. Like it will look like the problem must be with me. I have only hinted on occasion that she found things difficult and was a bit stressy, I don’t get to the heart of it. I think some people did see her posting pictures of the LO in the incubator sympathy baiting at our expense. It feels really validating to be able to talk about it to people who understand.

i started therapy for the birth trauma/NICU PTSD but i’m sure it will soon be bitching sessions about my mum…

I really feel for you re: your sister and your mothers inaction. I didn’t have this relationship within my sibling group, we seem to mostly people please my mum and are fairly nice to each other. But I’ve seen the dynamic you describe with friends and I just think it’s awful and so difficult.

 

[nothanksbabes]

I’m glad I’ve found this thread
A few months ago I stopped most contact with my mum and most of my family and it almost feels like a death if that makes sense like I’m grieving the relationship and the family dynamic I could’ve had? I know grief from when I lost my dad when I was young and it almost feels the same
From speaking to a lot of my friends especially my female friends they struggle with their mum and things their mums do

It’s been so many incidents but it’s really Facebook and over sharing that’s killed a lot of the relationships in our family. My mum will just post anything and everything to get sympathy and get attention. She pretends to be such a loving caring and understanding person online but in person she can be cold, argumentative, disinterested and make you feel so awful about yourself. She gets told several times that she’s not allowed to post things, I can’t count the amount of times that my brother and his wife told my mum not to post when she was pregnant/ just given birth and my mum did. She gets told not to post photos or baby’s names and she does then every time my mum is called out on her behaviour or something she’s posted that’s not right she’ll write a scatching Facebook status about her kids slagging them off saying she raised us so she can talk about whatever she wants and she can post whatever she wants. She’ll usually block us or unfriend us then do it and we only find out from other family members. I can’t even count the amount of times she’s done it, then it’s caused massive arguments and she still doesn’t think she’s in the wrong. She’ll just post more about how hard her life is and how horrible is to her.

She has no sympathy for anyone else having trouble in the family. When my sister in law had a miscarriage all she said was they told us too soon and they can just have another one. When my other sister in law lost a baby at birth my mum said that she shouldn’t be calling the baby, “my baby”, as it didn’t include my brother.


She lies just constantly I don’t even know if she knows the truth anymore. She’s taken my belongings without asking, she used to wear my makeup and my clothes. She took my coat and posted about it online when I asked for it back and said to her that I didn’t want her to post about me online as it makes me uncomfortable she deleted the posts only to make new ones a few minutes later with the sympathy sad faces and lines. She laughed when people were calling me cruel and saying it looked better on her. She called me fat in the comments and said I’ve crept up in weight and size and didn’t understand why I got so upset, (for years shes made comments about the fact I’m a lot shorter and curvier than the rest of my family and how she was so tall and thin and beautiful when she was my age and why couldn’t I just not gain weight easily like my sister, I really struggled with my weight and eating and I still do as a result of this). She sent me messages saying how many people had liked the statuses and photos of her saying how much better she looks. When I called her to talk about what had been posted and how much it upset me she just shouted over me saying how me and my siblings don’t message her and how awful we are. I spent the whole night shaking and crying and dreading the inevitable Facebook status slagging me off

I just don’t get it
How can you be so cruel to your child? How is she so comfortable to slag off her children and pit them against each other
How could she laugh at me when I cried and say I was faking it
How can she not respect her children’s wishes and the most simple requests

I’m terrified of being like her. I know I have the same short temper and laziness and I’ve been trying so hard to change and to stop myself before I get angry but I don’t want to be like her

Oh my heart breaks for you. I lurk on this thread because I don't have a narc parent but a narc friend who is precisely like this with her own family and it's infuriating and heartbreaking in equal measure because as I'm sure you know, you can't have a sane discussion with them and they won't change, but I just wanted to say that I doubt you're anything like your mother. The fact you're aware of it and worried is a sure sign you're not!

 

[griftalo]

Does anyone have experience with a covert narcissistic mother?

I'm beginning to think that's what my mother is. I've been told all my life how lovely, sweet, kind, "typical mammy" my mother is. She is obsessed by status and the image of things - she loves to tell me what girls I went to school with literally 20+ years ago are up to, who got married, who had a baby, who has prestigious job somewhere, etc. How brilliant my cousins are. What my doctor sister is up to. All without ever expressing an iota of interest in me and my life, or even knowing the very basics - what I do in my job, who my friends are, what my interests are.

My family is complicated by an older sibling's illness, he has a severe debilitating mental health disorder with psychosis, all of which came to fruition when we were teenagers in a really traumatic way. Looking back now I can see how traumatized I was, but my mother would blame me at the time for being an angry, moody teen, who "didn't want any help" until I basically fled as soon as I could after school and built my life abroad. Since then I've been accidentally (or maybe not) low contact with my mother but I'm also realising she very rarely called, NEVER visited me in college or post college in the various cities I lived in, it was like an "out of sight out of mind" thing while she became enmeshed with my younger sister, who is a doctor now and provides her with so much supply.

Said sister was a bridemaid at my wedding a few years ago, and it struck me how she talks about my mother as if she's talking about an entirely different person to the woman I call my mother. She talked about how "amazing" my mother was, how we "had to" include my mother in the dress shopping, hen, etc, how *excited* my mother was about the wedding. Meanwhile, my mother barely congratulated me on getting engaged, asked no questions about the wedding and only criticized the information she did get E.G she complained relentlessly about our decision to not get married in a church despite neither of us being religious, etc. My mother called MY SISTER while we were dress shopping to wish us a good day, instead of me.

So I have this mother who is deeply enmeshed with the sibling that is most similar to her, to the point of knowing who she is dating, how stressed her job is making her, what she had for breakfast, etc. Another sibling who is in her full-time care as he is now special needs. And then me - the child she never calls, never texts, knows nothing but the basics about, loves to judge, criticize and I have to keep on an information diet because any personal information she gets will be gossiped about. Who cared more about her siblings enjoying my wedding than the well-being of me, her actual daughter.

And who loves to tell all her relatives how "independent" I am.

What do we call a mother like this? Can anyone relate?

We call them cut off. Your mother sounds very similar to mine. Enmeshed with sister, weird about my brother, triangulated all of us I imagine. The only way was to cut her out. They like the attention of talking about you but there’s no care. Mine wouldn’t visit me in hospital at first (I nearly died) but according to a friend of hers she was SO WORRIED. Shame that didn’t translate into perceptible actions eh!?
I really feel for you as really they don’t like anyone.

 

[Rodneytrotter]

I can't go 100% no contact.

How do people cope with the temper tantrums and guilt tripping?

Maybe practise a set phrase that you can say when they start? And also practise the uncomfortable feeling you will experience when you've said it. But for me, no contact was the only answer after trying low contact for a couple of years.

Also I think if no contact is not an option then just build your life up so positively with work, friends, hobbies etc that the parent becomes less of a focus in your brain xx

 

[Darvos]

Oh thats so sneaky to forget the jewellery but sadly it doesn't surprise me!

I bought the will from the gov website a couple of months ago and probate had been granted. Auntie is saying that my gran would have wanted her to have it all. Only she isn't saying this to me directly she is sending other people to tell me including my dad who she knows i dont speak to. She knows he will intimidate me.

It's my mum's share that I'm receiving. My mum died of cancer years ago and my gran specifically states in the will that if my mum has passed before her then she wants me and my brother to have her share. My gran had many years to change her will if she actually wanted my auntie to have everything and exclude me.

I had an email from my brother saying that he is giving her his share.

Ah, Rodders, that’s rough and I’m sorry. Had your mum not predeceased your gran would your mum have left her share of your gran’s money to her sister or to you and your brother? Exactly. Sorry your aunty and dad are being dicks. The money’s yours. Not easy though, is it.

 

[Ablemabel]

Hello, I realise I am just another poster in a throng of thousands of us but could do with some help/pointers/explanations

Here’re the facts.

Mum an alcoholic

Very bitter about divorce from my dad 20 odd years ago. Hates all her exes and randomly angry that one collects bikes. Was insanely jealous of his relationship with his teenage daughter and still goes on about how much of a “little cunt” she is

Tells me she loves me but shows no sympathy that my dad has terminal cancer - it’s all about how shit her life is

Bed bound - no one knows if she’s really ill or made herself this ill to get PIP

Has carers who come in twos because she’s so abusive and angry to them.

Refuses to eat the food they’ve made / says they spit in her food / says they hide her belongings / steal her jewellery (that defo isn’t true) / says they sexually assaulted her but won’t complain to the council

Refuses personal care and hasn’t washed in months and refuses to get a hoist to help her

Won’t use occupational health (says they don’t come?) to get better

Says she doesn’t want to be here

Always been angry and short tempered and violent and used to say she hated me

I tried going no contact but I worry about her

I know addiction is an illness and my brother says that it’s futile trying to understand why she is the way she is

Just wondered if she sounds like she has a personality disorder ? I feel like she’s got NPD but I’m too close to the problem to work it out

Thank you for sharing, it's not an easy thing to do.

I'm no expert and thats sounds a very complicated situation.

Pre feigned ill health and then actual ill health, my mother was undeniably narcisstic.The atmosphere was always high tension, is she happy? Is she cross? Are we going to have a nice day? Are we going to celebrate a birthday? Christmas? Etc. I just never knew. As she aged all the health stuff kicked in and took over everything.

Nothing every changed. She would rather fuck us all than admit a failing on her part, or say sorry. She would rather never see her brother, children and grandchildren than accept she might be in the wrong. I can't quite get my head around that behaviour.

Sorry for Merailing, all I can say is try and get help/guidance. If she has NPD nothing you ever do will be right. Many people with NPD relatives have no choice but to go NC. You have to protect your own mental health.

 

[Rodneytrotter]

No attempt to apologise/contact me from my dad, really unsure what to do - this is just sucking all of the fun out of wedding prep 🫤

I'm sorry this has happened to you

Why do they always cause trouble and then engineer it so that you're left in some anxious limbo. In my opinion they should be contacting you first, I hope you have support around you x

 

[Chandler Bing]

Are you still entitled to inherit any money once they pass if you're not in their will though?

I don't know about anyone else, but my narc mother would use it as a bargaining chip for my time and access to information about me. Like "why should I include you in my will when you never see me / don't contact me etc?"

I'd rather be free of her and not receive a penny when she dies than have some sort of obligation to keep in touch to be entitled to anything in her will.

I know for a fact that there is no will so yes I would be entitled to something. But I also do know it won't be a lot since a lot of the assets have already been funneled to my golden child sibling and are already in his name.

 

[Rodneytrotter]

If your auntie had been the only full time carer, then maybe you could consider it.
You only have your father’s word that everyone else has given up their share.

I would take the money, put it in a savings account and wait and see if the others really have made over their share and if she really needs it.
Then decide. There is no rush to do anything.

Thanks, my gran was in a nursing home and the fees took up a lot of the inheritance so there wasn't much left in the pot to inherit apparently. I'm beneficiary of 25% and my auntie has 75% now that everyone else has given up theirs (she would have had 50% anyway).

My other gripe is that they didn't even contact me to tell me she had died and id have been happy with some photos or brooches which were never offered.