MOD & FOD #31 Stay Alert -> Delete the Comments -> Save Sponsorships

[sunflower]

Omg 100000000% this. I am not joking when I say they are genuinely our enemy, they’re the most insidious form of sales / brand comms and they’re genuinely dangerous. Sorry to say it yet again but @myfrugalyear on insta’s book has an entire chapter on them and it should be like mandatory reading for every young woman in this country so we can see the wood for the trees. The ASA is failing an entire generation of women (and tbh I’m sure cross generations! But the IVA data shows that it’s growing fastest in younger women) in their lax approach to regulating the industry.

Again if you look at MFY’s account and read the comments, or nosy on their profiles, you see there’s a whole community on insta of women who are documenting their debt management journey. So many of them have been ~influenced into this unsustainable lifestyle, by women who get it all for free! As someone else on this thread said about their holiday, if you see someone who “looks like you” doing these things you assume it’s safe to proceed. The influencers aren’t there for the rest of your tight year, or worse when you have to call Barclays up cos you’re over your overdraft limit.

Like it really winds me up, and makes me angry, I’m not debt shaming or saying it’s impossible to recover from (the opposite, I want women to be protected from something that is awfully inhibitive to your life progressing and damaging to your mental health), however I can say without a doubt that Instagram has changed the course of my sister’s life? Yes there is personal accountability but I think insta is so intoxicating - she followed 1.3k different accounts FILLED with images of just... stuff to buy. She got into a debt that’s higher than her gross annual income in buying bits, like nothing mental like Chanel bags were literally just talking makeup palettes and outfits it was just the sheer volume of it. She’s had to enter a DMP that’ll take her a decade to pay off. She then gets to start at 0 at 40, she’s on an avg income so what are the chances of her being able to buy a house? Most mortgages don’t let your term exceed you being 65, so she either needs a huge deposit or huge monthly repayments - neither of which are viable. That’s going to be the reality for a fair few of these guys’ audiences!

And sorry to rant but this isn’t even getting into how disgusting it is to target pregnant women. I’m going through this stage now and it’s a constant battle in what do we NEED versus what are we being told we need or feel guilted into buying. I’m actually speaking a lot to older women to ask for recommendations because I know they’re not tainted by the cult of insta mama. I have the benefit of years of therapy and a stark warning in my life and I still find it an utterly exhausting exercise, most women are struggling through their pregnancies just trying to do what they think is best for baby and being cruelly duped. It’s a horrible and shameful industry that doesn’t yield anything positive other than lining the pockets of the chosen few.

It’s absolutely depressing. I work with groups of women and the number of them with a sense of serious low self worth because they can’t seem to “have it all” makes me want to cry. They are literally on the edge of breakdowns. MOD name has come up a lot in discussions (this is how I found this place) and when I first looked at her account I just saw saleswoman. If i had been looking through my sleep deprived eyes, at a time where I felt I’d lost my identity as a new mum, undiagnosed PND and pretty damn lonely, I would have seen something very different.

It’s human nature to want to be part of a community, and these influencers exploit that. You’re never going to be their friend. They don’t give a tit about you.

Don’t get me started on coaches...

 

[Chum]

I'm so peeved off by the sod's (they don't even deserve capital letters) and this whole week feels like such a watershed in mood. I've just sent a message on Insta to a company who I see are following FOD and of which I'm a loyal customer. It's just a follow from their side but I felt if I want to truly be part of the solution, I'll speak up! Am curious to see if and what they reply.

 

[Emmadale]

Anna Mathur always seemed like such a phoney to me, gave her an unfollow a while ago!

A few more people added to my comment on budgets Clem’s racism post but she hasn’t responded any further...just claiming it was all behind the scenes yeah, bollocks!

 

[Affiliatemebaby]

You’ve articulated it far better than I could have. I’m not suggesting for one minute they’ll be on the breadline but like, have to actually consider the relative utility of their disposal income for once? Like this meal out with the family versus a new fancy iron, they’re not doing a Jack Monroe and selling lightbulbs and plastic dinosaurs but just re entering normal society. And they clearly would rather not!

The holidays were always absolutely ridiculous. I always thought we spent a fair whack on ours but £10k+ for a week in a self contained resort (eg outside of an amazing safari experience) is obscene, no one who works for their money (eg isn’t old money / family office cash) can justify that imo? I’d spend all week so anxious about making the most of that holiday cos of the price that I’d end up having a tit time anyway.

This thread has moved fast and others have said it better than I will already but I did want to reply directly to you! Because YES, this is it. You and I look at their jobs and their surface resemblance to us and so we think their lifestyle can easily be ours. Which is a GIANT LIE. And that’s before you start moving on to all those vulnerable people who are taken in by the must-haves and the relatability and the ‘genuine’ recommendations. I assume we are their real target, with enough disposable income that we can access a bit of what’s being flogged, when in reality it leads to pressure on our finances, and all that that involves (including mental health issues, which are, like, so very close to FoD’s heart).

And then other accounts have their own demographics, for those with lower incomes, and lower priced goods, but the sheer volume of it all leads to the same place.

And every influencer will also be playing to those who are not their intended customers but instead really can’t afford any of it, and get into even more serious trouble.

Sorry, all the above has been endlessly rehearsed already; it’s not new. It’s no revelation. But it’s a business, not genuine social networking, and the SoDs were essentially sacked back in November and just haven’t faced up to it.

 

[sunflower]

Omg 100000000% this. I am not joking when I say they are genuinely our enemy, they’re the most insidious form of sales / brand comms and they’re genuinely dangerous. Sorry to say it yet again but @myfrugalyear on insta’s book has an entire chapter on them and it should be like mandatory reading for every young woman in this country so we can see the wood for the trees. The ASA is failing an entire generation of women (and tbh I’m sure cross generations! But the IVA data shows that it’s growing fastest in younger women) in their lax approach to regulating the industry.

Again if you look at MFY’s account and read the comments, or nosy on their profiles, you see there’s a whole community on insta of women who are documenting their debt management journey. So many of them have been ~influenced into this unsustainable lifestyle, by women who get it all for free! As someone else on this thread said about their holiday, if you see someone who “looks like you” doing these things you assume it’s safe to proceed. The influencers aren’t there for the rest of your tight year, or worse when you have to call Barclays up cos you’re over your overdraft limit.

Like it really winds me up, and makes me angry, I’m not debt shaming or saying it’s impossible to recover from (the opposite, I want women to be protected from something that is awfully inhibitive to your life progressing and damaging to your mental health), however I can say without a doubt that Instagram has changed the course of my sister’s life? Yes there is personal accountability but I think insta is so intoxicating - she followed 1.3k different accounts FILLED with images of just... stuff to buy. She got into a debt that’s higher than her gross annual income in buying bits, like nothing mental like Chanel bags were literally just talking makeup palettes and outfits it was just the sheer volume of it. She’s had to enter a DMP that’ll take her a decade to pay off. She then gets to start at 0 at 40, she’s on an avg income so what are the chances of her being able to buy a house? Most mortgages don’t let your term exceed you being 65, so she either needs a huge deposit or huge monthly repayments - neither of which are viable. That’s going to be the reality for a fair few of these guys’ audiences!

And sorry to rant but this isn’t even getting into how disgusting it is to target pregnant women. I’m going through this stage now and it’s a constant battle in what do we NEED versus what are we being told we need or feel guilted into buying. I’m actually speaking a lot to older women to ask for recommendations because I know they’re not tainted by the cult of insta mama. I have the benefit of years of therapy and a stark warning in my life and I still find it an utterly exhausting exercise, most women are struggling through their pregnancies just trying to do what they think is best for baby and being cruelly duped. It’s a horrible and shameful industry that doesn’t yield anything positive other than lining the pockets of the chosen few.

Sorry just wanted to add about your friend as an example, they’ll ply you with “entry level” goods first. Pocket money, things under £20 like t shirts, a brand of gin or a book. Then when you realise you’re still not “in the club” it’ll be £50 - shoes, a new jacket, a tin of F&B paint....next you’re forking out hundreds on Bestival tickets and thinking your family holiday and kitchen is really tit compared to everyone else’s.

But it’s the little bits which add up. It’s how Mrs Hinch did it - entry level goods like plastic baskets and Zoflora which her audience can slip in the shopping trolley or do a “cheeky” buy on eBay. She created a community and no one wants to feel left behind.

Certain clothing labels also do it with Facebook groups for their customers. You see everyone else buying the new seasons workout gear and you wonder why you can’t afford it and surely you deserve it too.

Honestly it’s criminal.

 

[Heretoread84]

There's tea to be spilled about budget Clemmie. I've just looked at her Twitter and she's deleted everything pre April 2019 -but has likes going back to 2017. Probably wanted to delete her association with MoD and FoD.

 

[istapp]

i'm genuinely amazed that all the 'where's clemmie?' bots just stopped suddenly. you'd think it would ramp down at least...

 

[emeldahosh]

I sent farrow and ball a message and they said they hadn’t worked with her since 2016, they know they’re being tagged but didn’t ask to be and won’t engage with them. The tone made it seem like F and B were pissed off with being associated with them.

I also messaged F&B and said I’m disgusted with their choice of brand partnership. I was told F&B don’t work with them and they pay for all their paint. I’ve also messaged any other brands that are tagged on their posts and said I’m blocking brands that share the same values as the Hooper family. I hope the message starts getting through to these brands.

 

[Wolf359]

Sorry just wanted to add about your friend as an example, they’ll ply you with “entry level” goods first. Pocket money, things under £20 like t shirts, a brand of gin or a book. Then when you realise you’re still not “in the club” it’ll be £50 - shoes, a new jacket, a tin of F&B paint....next you’re forking out hundreds on Bestival tickets and thinking your family holiday and kitchen is really tit compared to everyone else’s.

But it’s the little bits which add up. It’s how Mrs Hinch did it - entry level goods like plastic baskets and Zoflora which her audience can slip in the shopping trolley or do a “cheeky” buy on eBay. She created a community and no one wants to feel left behind.

Certain clothing labels also do it with Facebook groups for their customers. You see everyone else buying the new seasons workout gear and you wonder why you can’t afford it and surely you deserve it too.

Honestly it’s criminal.

Absolutely. Every single aspect of their account is curated and confected to compel people to buy what they're selling. But when it works, and people buy the stuff and get into debt, they blame the very people whom they sought to manipulate. "It's your own fault for following us/being a sheep."

It's a kind of victim blaming. And I agree, it's insidious.

 

[Pocahontas]

Looks like DLAM isn’t following either page. Mass exodus.
Perhaps Clembot has contacted everyone and said ‘Listen, babe. Just unfollow me, I understand. Save yourself. It’s for the greater GOOD.’
It would be very selfless of her . She may not be getting any more free stuff, but they still could! I don’t think so though.
They’re all running for the hills!

 

[Axatogrind]

i'm genuinely amazed that all the 'where's clemmie?' bots just stopped suddenly. you'd think it would ramp down at least...

I've sometimes wondered if he buys batches of "custom" comments. It seems very easy to do. I agree, it's suspicious strange that it went on for SO long after Alicegate and then just suddenly stopped!

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

This thread has moved fast and others have said it better than I will already but I did want to reply directly to you! Because YES, this is it. You and I look at their jobs and their surface resemblance to us and so we think their lifestyle can easily be ours. Which is a GIANT LIE. And that’s before you start moving on to all those vulnerable people who are taken in by the must-haves and the relatability and the ‘genuine’ recommendations. I assume we are their real target, with enough disposable income that we can access a bit of what’s being flogged, when in reality it leads to pressure on our finances, and all that that involves (including mental health issues, which are, like, so very close to FoD’s heart).

And then other accounts have their own demographics, for those with lower incomes, and lower priced goods, but the sheer volume of it all leads to the same place.

And every influencer will also be playing to those who are not their intended customers but instead really can’t afford any of it, and get into even more serious trouble.

Sorry, all the above has been endlessly rehearsed already; it’s not new. It’s no revelation. But it’s a business, not genuine social networking, and the SoDs were essentially sacked back in November and just haven’t faced up to it.

Omg the gateway drugs thing is really interesting & not something I've ever thought of before, but also SO bleeping TRUE? I've seen SO many accounts 'elevate' away from ASOS hauls into Anthropologie, cooking organic food, and these are normal girls who used to be receptionists like wtf you surely can't believe all this tit is necessary?

I also think the dangerous thing around the motherhood is identity and the sense of loss? It's something I really heavily recognise in myself at the mo, I'm heavily pregnant, been royally cunted off by my employer and already know I don't have a job I could go back to and retain any level of self respect, so my whole way of life is about to change. This makes me sound awful and like one of them but old working professional TM me would spend Friday night browsing Liberty & Carnaby Street, probably buy a dress or a pair of shoes, go out for dinner for one, then tottle home feeling giddy with excitement at my latest purchase - undeniably vacuous but a normal part of being in your 20s?

I'm now about to become a mum for the first time, this tit no longer matters and tbh is off the cards for me. We are lucky in that I could sustain that level of purchasing power but... all interest in that left the minute I found out I was pregnant, which is weird init? Maybe I was just bored? I've not even engaged in buying maternity wear (outside of 1x jeans, 1 x dungarees)! Whilst I don't regret the money I've spent previously, my priorities are now just nesting down & opportunities to travel as a young fam & making baby some savings/pensions (compounding init). I've lived the old life for nearly a decade and now it'll be parked, and that's the natural progression but marketeers/strategists/influencers are part of brand ~strategies to re-capture that defected ex-professional now mum market into upping their annual wardrobe spend again by calling back to their 'lost' youth!

I'm sure if I let these people get into my head, on the nights where my nipples are in agony and I'm leaking from downstairs and my baby's been sick on her brand new cream carpet I'd feel like another Stine Goya dress would fix me but it won't. And then I guess it's like chasing the dragon there after, if that dress made you feel 10% better maybe the 'matching' Grensons will help you get closer to 100%? Or the gold initial necklaces, it's totally fine because it's got YOUR baby's initials on it! And before you know it you're spending *more* than when you were working full time and the stress of that is also adding to your poor mental health which compels you to purchase again! Which is exactly why I'm safeguarding myself and blocking them all ahead of the tit show, even bought a kindle (capitalism lolz) to push me to read instead of the deathly insta scroll.

Also lol @ being fired, it's bleeping true.

 

[Pain of chocolate]

I think Instagram used to be like that. I really don’t think it’s like that any more. Maybe I’m following the wrong people, but anyone I follow who’s not just one of my mates is growing a following just so they can sell stuff. It’s one big ad platform and market place now.
I don’t really understand how I’m ‘bringing Tattle down’ by saying that.

But in that respect your friends aren't good people at all?

 

[Affiliatemebaby]

Omg the gateway drugs thing is really interesting & not something I've ever thought of before, but also SO bleeping TRUE? I've seen SO many accounts 'elevate' away from ASOS hauls into Anthropologie, cooking organic food, and these are normal girls who used to be receptionists like wtf you surely can't believe all this tit is necessary?

I also think the dangerous thing around the motherhood is identity and the sense of loss? It's something I really heavily recognise in myself at the mo, I'm heavily pregnant, been royally cunted off by my employer and already know I don't have a job I could go back to and retain any level of self respect, so my whole way of life is about to change. This makes me sound awful and like one of them but old working professional TM me would spend Friday night browsing Liberty & Carnaby Street, probably buy a dress or a pair of shoes, go out for dinner for one, then tottle home feeling giddy with excitement at my latest purchase - undeniably vacuous but a normal part of being in your 20s?

I'm now about to become a mum for the first time, this tit no longer matters and tbh is off the cards for me. We are lucky in that I could sustain that level of purchasing power but... all interest in that left the minute I found out I was pregnant, which is weird init? Maybe I was just bored? I've not even engaged in buying maternity wear (outside of 1x jeans, 1 x dungarees)! Whilst I don't regret the money I've spent previously, my priorities are now just nesting down & opportunities to travel as a young fam & making baby some savings/pensions (compounding init). I've lived the old life for nearly a decade and now it'll be parked, and that's the natural progression but marketeers/strategists/influencers are part of brand ~strategies to re-capture that defected ex-professional now mum market into upping their annual wardrobe spend again by calling back to their 'lost' youth!

I'm sure if I let these people get into my head, on the nights where my nipples are in agony and I'm leaking from downstairs and my baby's been sick on her brand new cream carpet I'd feel like another Stine Goya dress would fix me but it won't. And then I guess it's like chasing the dragon there after, if that dress made you feel 10% better maybe the 'matching' Grensons will help you get closer to 100%? Or the gold initial necklaces, it's totally fine because it's got YOUR baby's initials on it! And before you know it you're spending *more* than when you were working full time and the stress of that is also adding to your poor mental health which compels you to purchase again! Which is exactly why I'm safeguarding myself and blocking them all ahead of the tit show, even bought a kindle (capitalism lolz) to push me to read instead of the deathly insta scroll.

Also lol @ being fired, it's bleeping true.

You’re really right in that your life will change, and you are lucky to be anticipating it as I hope that makes it easier. (And the baby bit is the amazing change that you really CAN’T anticipate enough!) But it’s quite right, and it might not be expensive clothes, but the baby gadget that they promise will make your baby sleep/eat/develop, so even if you can’t imagine buying clothes for yourself, you want the best for your kid.

IME the ‘a new dress will help me find the old me’ stage is quite a way after birth, so they are going after the mums of toddlers plus there. It comes from you from every angle!

Does anyone remember Clemmie’s private Instagram? Wonder if everyone has unfollowed that too?

 

[OneLineResponse]

Yasminecamilla said quite a bit and seems to be talking to him in DMs....

This woman would jump on any bandwagon. She'd sell her soul to be an influencer.

 

[HensInTheSkirting]

I also messaged F&B and said I’m disgusted with their choice of brand partnership. I was told F&B don’t work with them and they pay for all their paint. I’ve also messaged any other brands that are tagged on their posts and said I’m blocking brands that share the same values as the Hooper family. I hope the message starts getting through to these brands.

I got a reply from F&B saying they haven’t worked with C since 2016 and They can’t ‘do anything about The tagging’. I’ve told them it’s easy to un-tag yourselves!!! I do it all the time.

Divine Savages‘ response was pretty blunt. They said they’d bought the wallpaper off the website like any other customer...

I’ve replied to both saying that by accepting the hashtag you are damaging your brand!

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

You’re really right in that your life will change, and you are lucky to be anticipating it as I hope that makes it easier. (And the baby bit is the amazing change that you really CAN’T anticipate enough!) But it’s quite right, and it might not be expensive clothes, but the baby gadget that they promise will make your baby sleep/eat/develop, so even if you can’t imagine buying clothes for yourself, you want the best for your kid.

IME the ‘a new dress will help me find the old me’ stage is quite a way after birth, so they are going after the mums of toddlers plus there. It comes from you from every angle!

Does anyone remember Clemmie’s private Instagram? Wonder if everyone has unfollowed that too?

I'm currently in the sleep gadget phase of my research now and finding it difficult, I'm looking at those sleep suits that safely swaddle them (I'm scared of doing it myself because of the hip dysplasia stuff, or accidentally wrapping her too tight) and I feel guilty for thinking the cheaper (we're talking £18 vs. >£30 not like £1.50 vs £50 where you'd genuinely be like...how the duck is that possible) ones actually look better as she'll have free arms to self soothe & it'll be summer so hot, like I MUST be wrong with that why else would they be more expensive?! I dread to think how it'll be if/when she does struggle with sleep :/ !!

and good catch on private insta. They won't be able to post their zoom party or social event pics anymore either lest CH manages to get into the frame ! Bless em x

 

[Wolf359]

But in that respect your friends aren't good people at all?

I wasn't explaining myself very clearly. Luckily some other posters on here could decipher my nonsense and help translate!

I was talking about people who deliberately grow their accounts to become 'brands' and vehicles for selling third party stuff.

My mates on instagram and I only have about a hundred followers each. I post pics I've taken of bees in my garden, or a funny sign I saw on a lamp post. I can't think of anything worse than having tens or hundreds of thousands of followers. People recognising you and thinking they know you and your family. Awful.

My sense is that, nice, ordinary, well-adjusted people don't go chasing that kind of exposure. The point I was trying to make is that if that level of profile is attractive to you, it's probably indicative of an ego problem.

 

[heretoreaditall2019]

I got a reply from F&B saying they haven’t worked with C since 2016 and They can’t ‘do anything about The tagging’. I’ve told them it’s easy to un-tag yourselves!!! I do it all the time.

Divine Savages‘ response was pretty blunt. They said they’d bought the wallpaper off the website like any other customer...

I’ve replied to both saying that by accepting the hashtag you are damaging your brand!

Omg you're doing the lord's work, thank you comrade! And divine savages have commented under HoH posts haven't they?

This woman would jump on any bandwagon. She'd sell her soul to be an influencer.

Loool mate, you can @ her if you fancy, she wrote us an essay a few pages back about how we have noOoOo idea how tough her life is, trying to get a seat at the icky table.

 

[sunflower]

Omg the gateway drugs thing is really interesting & not something I've ever thought of before, but also SO bleeping TRUE? I've seen SO many accounts 'elevate' away from ASOS hauls into Anthropologie, cooking organic food, and these are normal girls who used to be receptionists like wtf you surely can't believe all this tit is necessary?

I also think the dangerous thing around the motherhood is identity and the sense of loss? It's something I really heavily recognise in myself at the mo, I'm heavily pregnant, been royally cunted off by my employer and already know I don't have a job I could go back to and retain any level of self respect, so my whole way of life is about to change. This makes me sound awful and like one of them but old working professional TM me would spend Friday night browsing Liberty & Carnaby Street, probably buy a dress or a pair of shoes, go out for dinner for one, then tottle home feeling giddy with excitement at my latest purchase - undeniably vacuous but a normal part of being in your 20s?

I'm now about to become a mum for the first time, this tit no longer matters and tbh is off the cards for me. We are lucky in that I could sustain that level of purchasing power but... all interest in that left the minute I found out I was pregnant, which is weird init? Maybe I was just bored? I've not even engaged in buying maternity wear (outside of 1x jeans, 1 x dungarees)! Whilst I don't regret the money I've spent previously, my priorities are now just nesting down & opportunities to travel as a young fam & making baby some savings/pensions (compounding init). I've lived the old life for nearly a decade and now it'll be parked, and that's the natural progression but marketeers/strategists/influencers are part of brand ~strategies to re-capture that defected ex-professional now mum market into upping their annual wardrobe spend again by calling back to their 'lost' youth!

I'm sure if I let these people get into my head, on the nights where my nipples are in agony and I'm leaking from downstairs and my baby's been sick on her brand new cream carpet I'd feel like another Stine Goya dress would fix me but it won't. And then I guess it's like chasing the dragon there after, if that dress made you feel 10% better maybe the 'matching' Grensons will help you get closer to 100%? Or the gold initial necklaces, it's totally fine because it's got YOUR baby's initials on it! And before you know it you're spending *more* than when you were working full time and the stress of that is also adding to your poor mental health which compels you to purchase again! Which is exactly why I'm safeguarding myself and blocking them all ahead of the tit show, even bought a kindle (capitalism lolz) to push me to read instead of the deathly insta scroll.

Also lol @ being fired, it's bleeping true.

You’re aware and you’ll be fine! Sorry to hear about the job though.

The thing is, is when you are a new mum (and this is my personal experience) you suddenly have a lot of time on your hands - some days you literally don’t get off the sofa when your baby is growing through a growth spurt! To be honest, it can be really bloody boring, especially if you come from a challenging job (and I mean this in the nicest way - being a mum is amazing but it doesn’t require mental stimulation.) So you start wondering why you’re feeling that way and like you say, somethings going to fill the gap.

Instagram wasn’t around when my eldest was born, but by the time my youngest was born I wasn’t interested in social media much. But I did hang around a “mamas” forum, which looking back was very cringe and there was a lot of squuuuueeeeing over new products etc. I did go through a stage of buying lots of wooden toys imported from Germany which were easy on the eye, but my baby preferred Fisher Price.

The thing is, is when you see through these influencers you can’t unsee it.

Just remember 99% of those on Instagram have an agenda. Follow inspiring people on there - gardeners, poets, mad artists, activists. People who make me think, not people who make you buy.

Honestly it’s such bullshit and yet another way to oppress women - keep telling them they’re broken.