Madeleine Olivia #2 Sustainability is so 2018, Buy my affiliates if you want to be green!

[grumpy_curry]

It's not "purity" though, there are clear boundaries and definitions. I think anyone who has been vegan for a long time can understand that there was a period where nothing was labelled and food places were quite ignorant over things like cross contamination, but times have changed, especially with the awareness of the importance of labeling food for allergies. And if they haven't, then it's back to basics to avoid such slip ups, such as avoiding eating out in non vegan places or making it clear to the staff to not include animals.. If you receive something that contains animals, then return it. It's nothing about "food waste" it's about not seeing animals as food, a basic moral value. If you had an allergy to dairy you wouldn't just suck it up to be polite and not want to waste food (or at least people should be empowered to live by their ethical values to not compromise them and equipped with the knowledge how to do so without being a twit).

Your comment about consumerism to me highlights how the term veganism is moving away from it's animal rights definition. Veganism can have health benefits and benefits to the environment (such as plastic waste in the sea being from the fishing industry), but it's not the crux. Buying so much stuff, so much plastic wrapped things isn't cool, but she's still vegan for the basis that she doesn't consume animals for animal rights reasons (unless she now identifies otherwise idk).

I guess I have incorporated other ideas than the core animal abuse issue in my choices, and that is fine by me if people claim I am not a "proper" vegan then. For me it's not just direct impact issues such as meat and dairy products, leather and the like, but it's also being aware of the indirect stuff. Like Palm Oil causing devastation to Orangutan populations (which somebody mentioned up thread), or plastics causing untold damage to oceans, and all ocean inhabitants. Or strip mining for rare earths that leave whole ecological systems devastated. Farming cotton wool is also extremely devastating to the landscape and takes huge amounts of water, not to speak of the poisonous chemicals in the dyes and the terrible working conditions for a lot of these workers. Which is why "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism" has such a pull for a lot of people, me included. Because even with best efforts, I am unable to escape the systemic issues that for me go well beyond veganism.

Agree to disagree, I personally don't see an issue with her not sending back something, but YMMV.

 

[blueblueindigo]

I guess I have incorporated other ideas than the core animal abuse issue in my choices, and that is fine by me if people claim I am not a "proper" vegan then. For me it's not just direct impact issues such as meat and dairy products, leather and the like, but it's also being aware of the indirect stuff. Like Palm Oil causing devastation to Orangutan populations (which somebody mentioned up thread), or plastics causing untold damage to oceans, and all ocean inhabitants. Or strip mining for rare earths that leave whole ecological systems devastated. Farming cotton wool is also extremely devastating to the landscape and takes huge amounts of water, not to speak of the poisonous chemicals in the dyes and the terrible working conditions for a lot of these workers. Which is why "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism" has such a pull for a lot of people, me included. Because even with best efforts, I am unable to escape the systemic issues that for me go well beyond veganism.

Agree to disagree, I personally don't see an issue with her not sending back something, but YMMV.

The issue I took was you saying she wasn't vegan due to her consumerism, which isn't okay. Veganism is primarily about animal rights, but as you have pointed out, rightly so, there are indirect consequences from removing ourselves from such animal consumption and a likelihood of greater awareness of the impact that palm oil plantations have to women, the planet and the other animals who reside there, or the exploitation of poorly paid workers for certain crops, the furniture we buy causing deforestation and destruction of wildlife and so on. Then you have the whole "plant based consumerism" problem where fast food giants and butchers are cashing in on the vegan pound. But veganism is primarily a philosophy about animal rights, ideally people would be conscious of other aspects of consumption that don't directly contain animals though.

 

[grumpy_curry]

The issue I took was you saying she wasn't vegan due to her consumerism, which isn't okay. Veganism is primarily about animal rights, but as you have pointed out, rightly so, there are indirect consequences from removing ourselves from such animal consumption and a likelihood of greater awareness of the impact that palm oil plantations have to women, the planet and the other animals who reside there, or the exploitation of poorly paid workers for certain crops, the furniture we buy causing deforestation and destruction of wildlife and so on. Then you have the whole "plant based consumerism" problem where fast food giants and butchers are cashing in on the vegan pound. But veganism is primarily a philosophy about animal rights, ideally people would be conscious of other aspects of consumption that don't directly contain animals though.

Oh I see what you mean, yes, that was a bit of a weird one, sorry! I should have explained why I think she personally isn't the vegan she claims she is, exactly because she is embracing things like palm oil. But it's true, veganism at its core is an animal rights issue. My bad!

 

[blueblueindigo]

Oh I see what you mean, yes, that was a bit of a weird one, sorry! I should have explained why I think she personally isn't the vegan she claims she is, exactly because she is embracing things like palm oil. But it's true, veganism at its core is an animal rights issue. My bad!

I think it's a good debate though, I was reading a post elsewhere where someone said that those who go vegan, not for animal rights, but for health or environmental reasons are on shakey ground.... as anyone could argue that there are perfectly healthy people who still consume animals and in the future there could be technological developments or more small, scale localised farming to make animal agriculture less harming to the planet. Whereas if you are vegan for animal rights, and do not believe animals should be exploited in any manner, then that's a firm core value that cannot be changed. You have people who are environmentalists, zero-wasters, talk about being compassionate to all.... yet still eat animals. It would be great to see more vegans embrace environmentalism and be more aware of the impact of products that may be without animals, but still negatively impact the planet and it's inhabitants though, but I do also believe that veganism is a strictly animal rights philosophy but most vegans are also compassionate aware folk in other movements for justice... if that makes sense?

I do think her channel has changed a lot though, and isn't really what I'm looking for anymore. But I can see how those who are new to veganism would enjoy seeing all these new products that they may be scared of missing out on, and the whole country life fantasy crowd.

 

[NowIsGood]

See this is why I love this thread fair and constructive opinions where we're all allowed to express our own ideas while allowing space for others. Maddie could take note from this, just because someone doesn't agree with your point of view, doesn't make them a 'hater' or 'unhappy', just a different perspective!
As a non-vegan it doesn't really bother me what she does it that respect, I got into her channel for the minimalism and living simply vibe. Her content is no longer for me, she is far too obsessed with spending, consuming tat, flogging tat and being the perpetual victim.

 

[Bgoo1]

Try this recipe, it is so bleeping good I had it four times in the last two weeks!

Pan Seared Tofu with Homemade Chili Oil - Eat Figs, Not Pigs

Pan seared tofu with chili oil is a quick & easy way to transform it into a delicious dish that even tofu critics are sure to love

www.eatfigsnotpigs.com

That looks so good!

View attachment 1019943

And there we have it. She's admitted to eating dairy. I get not wanting to waste food but vegans don't eat animal products, period.

Also, I'm sure the kitchen staff would just eat any meals that are wrong, so would the good go to waste? Either way I wouldn't have any qualms in sending back a meal that should have been vegan but isn't. Otherwise how many other vegan people might get served the same meal but also have a non-vegan ingredient thrown on top, meaning more food is wasted in the long run?

 

[Tom_Nook]

That looks so good!


Also, I'm sure the kitchen staff would just eat any meals that are wrong, so would the good go to waste? Either way I wouldn't have any qualms in sending back a meal that should have been vegan but isn't. Otherwise how many other vegan people might get served the same meal but also have a non-vegan ingredient thrown on top, meaning more food is wasted in the long run?

I think this is another one where opinions vary! Personally I'd also rather eat the food than let it go to waste, depending on the scenario and what the non vegan item was.

 

[Lizzie Mintdrop]

To be fair to Maddie, she didn't actually say she'd eaten any dairy, she said that maybe she had but couldn't think of an occasion where this had happened. However, I would definitely send it back, there is no way I'd eat something I hadn't ordered. I'm not vegan, I'm veggie so if I ordered, say an omelette and it had ham in it, it'd be going back.

I also think that many vegans and vegetarians have had slip ups, either accidentally or on purpose and just go back to it for the next meal/day. I aim for better, not perfection.

 

[snarkvark]

there's a big difference between accidentally eating something and not realising until later, and eating something that was served to you with cheese on top or in a 'creamy sauce' like maddie said in her instagram post. when you know what's being served isn't vegan and eat it anyway. whetehr the food gets wasted or not, vegans wouldn't eat it they'd send it back. it's as simple as that.

everyone I know who calls themselves vegan and does this (eats stuff when it's served with cheese on top, etc.) also occasionally orders the non-vegan option on purpose because it's really not a big deal to them. they're not actually vegan they just mostly eat vegan options. which is fine but that's not what veganism is.

Also, I'm sure the kitchen staff would just eat any meals that are wrong, so would the good go to waste?

this is eactly what happens with most food that gets sent back, it doesn't get wasted.

it really wouldnt surprise me is maddie has intentioanlly eaten cheese or chocolate with milk in. she's gotten so relaxed about everything else that she probably forgotten the ethical side of veganism.

 

[Tom_Nook]

I don't think she's coming across very well in recent videos, or was she always like this and I never noticed before!? I stopped watching at the point where they were fantasising about being land owners while swinging a bag of poo.

The comments about her not liking McDonalds because her parents always made her delicious meals sounded a bit.... snobby?

Also, the part where she was saying if Alex had a house he'd probably do it like this.... Alex HAS a house with you! As others have said, her house could have looked like the one she's gushing over if she'd taken her time and looked for second hand bits rather than rushing everything.

Apparently freaking out at Alex forgetting a bar of chocolate when he's bought her a cake big enough to feed about ten people

 

[DietGossip]

I'm interested to know how she can stomach dairy now considering I accidentally had dairy (a coffee mix up at starbucks where I ended up with a dairy latte and someone else must've gotten my soy!) and my stomach ACHED like mad for hours and that was just a sip after 4 years of veganism!

 

[The Rascal]

She is a self obsessed, righteous, entitled, hypocrite moron.
Had a go at Alex forgetting the chocs that were hidden at home (You are a grown ass woman, show some self restraint and just not eat it. No need to "hide" it from you!) But not only did Alex bring a giant cake but she brought along the cake her mum made. Wait What? But then forgets poop bag, forgets her visaline and cant find a glove. Case of have a go at everyone else instead of yourself.
She is a toxic negative person. Probably Alex needs to run a mile. !!! Take Roxy and the cats with him.

 

[NowIsGood]

I don't think she's coming across very well in recent videos, or was she always like this and I never noticed before!? I stopped watching at the point where they were fantasising about being land owners while swinging a bag of poo.

The comments about her not liking McDonalds because her parents always made her delicious meals sounded a bit.... snobby?

Also, the part where she was saying if Alex had a house he'd probably do it like this.... Alex HAS a house with you! As others have said, her house could have looked like the one she's gushing over if she'd taken her time and looked for second hand bits rather than rushing everything.

Apparently freaking out at Alex forgetting a bar of chocolate when he's bought her a cake big enough to feed about ten people

Tbh she's been coming across badly for about the last 2 years!
I feel the wealthier she has become (and at this point is clear she has more money than she knows what to do with), the more self obsessed and selfish she's become (unless she was hiding it before?)
I think she's always been a spoilt brat, but now she's come into money it really shows in her attitude.
She seems less and less happy and it's yet to dawn on her that no amount of material items, posh food, therapy sessions, renovation, cars, land, clothes ect is going to fill that void.

 

[muncher]

Do we think she is happy with Alex, sometimes he's a bit off when she tries to engage with him on camera?

 

[snarkvark]

The comments about her not liking McDonalds because her parents always made her delicious meals sounded a bit.... snobby?

I found that quite snobby too! if she doesn't like fast food why does she eat it so often? she's always promoting the latest vegan offering from big chains like burger king and mcdonalds. surely if she looooooves cooking so much she'd cook instead of eat it? and then to slag it off just makes her sound like a witch

Tbh she's been coming across badly for about the last 2 years!

she's always said some things that are questionable, to be honest. she's lived a very sheltered life and even when she went travelling she was oblivious to her privilege. she's the sort of person who thinks the same as molly mae, that if you work hard enough you can achieve anything.

 

[Blackmagpie]

Um…… the burger she was eating isnt vegan? Or is it ok if its cooked alongside meat? Im a veggie and i wouldnt eat that.

 

[snarkvark]

Um…… the burger she was eating isnt vegan? Or is it ok if its cooked alongside meat? Im a veggie and i wouldnt eat that.

She's said before she's fine with eating things cooked on the same grill/in the same oil as meat. It's not vegan though, you're right.

 

[Blackmagpie]

She's said before she's fine with eating things cooked on the same grill/in the same oil as meat. It's not vegan though, you're right.

Ah fair enough. Each to their own i suppose

 

[grumpy_curry]

She is a self obsessed, righteous, entitled, hypocrite moron.
Had a go at Alex forgetting the chocs that were hidden at home (You are a grown ass woman, show some self restraint and just not eat it. No need to "hide" it from you!) But not only did Alex bring a giant cake but she brought along the cake her mum made. Wait What? But then forgets poop bag, forgets her visaline and cant find a glove. Case of have a go at everyone else instead of yourself.
She is a toxic negative person. Probably Alex needs to run a mile. !!! Take Roxy and the cats with him.

She just wants everyone else to take responsibility for her own life and happiness. Narcissistic traits are popping up from her more and more. Probably have always been there but the mask is off.

Poor Alex. I personally don't like his sarcastic personality, he would annoy the hell out of me, but honesty, being shat on for forgetting bloody chocolate is just so petty and hurtful.

 

[LydiaDeetzHat]

I don't watch her videos anymore but the thumbnail thingy auto played on my phone and in about 10 seconds she said its my birthday 3 times.. self important much