Madeleine McCann #4

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You can absolutely guarantee that if someone else had died in that apartment, the McCanns would have found out and highlighted the fact. Instead they choose to suggest the dogs weren’t reliable. My understanding is that the did in question were EXTREMELY reliable.
Exactly, they would have jumped on that straight away.

Have just watched the Peter Hyatt interview about this case on YouTube.
Hyatt’s a statement analyst whose job is to pick up on the lies and deceptions in peoples statements.
What a clever guy and what an eye opener. I had always up till seeing this kept an open mind on the case but now I’m very much of the belief that her parents were responsible, possibly not for murder but most likely for covering up an accident.
If you haven’t seen it go take a look, it’s good.
 
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Exactly, they would have jumped on that straight away.

Have just watched the Peter Hyatt interview about this case on YouTube.
Hyatt’s a statement analyst whose job is to pick up on the lies and deceptions in peoples statements.
What a clever guy and what an eye opener. I had always up till seeing this kept an open mind on the case but now I’m very much of the belief that her parents were responsible, possibly not for murder but most likely for covering up an accident.
If you haven’t seen it go take a look, it’s good.
I will check out Peter Hyatt. Jon wedger and Peter Hyatt should collab.
I am definately thinking theres more known. Id be still looking with no answers (maybe they do) and media wise they are quite on their missing child. Not heard them speak on her for years.
Esp knowing theyve funding and can easily get the newspapers involved and press would jump at interviewing them and starting a search again Im sure.
You cant want it forgotten. Its still of public interest. Shes a missing.
I wonder what her efit would be today?
So sad🙏🙏🙏🥺
 
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Right well who's to say then that nobody had ever passed away in that apartment before? My mother in law tragically took ill on holiday in Greece & collapsed and died. I'm sure a cadaver dog might pick up her scent. If a dog is trained to alert to blood, could be any amount of various explanations, someone hurting themselves on holiday or even ladies monthly waste being left in a bathroom bin/stained washing left in a wardrobe in a suitcase to take home, who knows. 🤷
The cadaver dog also alerted to the boot of the car Gerry and Kate rented when they returned to PdL, indicating that a body had been placed there.

The blood was madeleines not from someone who stayed there before, although there wasn’t enough markers in the blood to arrest the mccanns as the bleach had destroyed part of the dna. The same blood had traces left on the cat toy and the curtains. There was a pool of blood underneath some tiles. Kate had been seen in a supermarket buying cleaning products and the blood had been bleached over. The blood was also met with cadaver alerts which means it’s very unlikely to be from a nose bleed, but from something associated with death. There is no doubt in my mind it was madeleines blood. Possibly accidental, but the facts remain that the mccanns tried to hide the evidence of blood and spinal fluid belonging to their daughter, which makes them guilty in my eyes.
This is all my understanding too. The nosebleed story came later, with Kate saying that Madeleine had nosebleeds and she thought she’d had one on holiday but couldn’t exactly remember. Why wouldn’t she remember her 4 year old having a nosebleed if it was bad enough to be dripping on to the floor, and why would she have had a nosebleed behind the sofa where the blood was found?

If I remember correctly, the blood had enough markers to meet U.K. standards for positive identification of Madeleine’s blood but just lacked the number required for EU standards. Something crazy like that anyway.

One of the alarm bells for me was Kate leaving the twins when discovering Maddie’s absence. Logically it’s more difficult to abduct three children than one bit of you genuinely thought your child had been abducted would you really leave the other two whilst you alerted your friends?

As to the MWT theory that Maddie wandered and met some random unplanned fate, the parents were absolutely positive that she didn’t wander off. You have to wonder why? To me it suggests knowledge of the reality in the same way they started the fund and the talk was about it being necessary because they had to plan not just for the next month or so but the year ahead. How did they know she wouldn’t be found?
That’s right, Kate was insistent that “they’ve taken her” from the moment she raised the alarm at 10pm.

It was interesting how many people found her behaviour “off” and unnatural in those early days. I always thought that internal reaction should be trusted, gut instinct can be very useful and I think it highlighted an odd kind of cognitive dissonance that was very difficult to articulate.

At the time there was a lot of talk about how not everyone reacts in the same way but actually parents of missing children DO pretty much react in the same way. Hyatt talks about this in his statement analysis. Cortisol goes through the roof and there is frantic fear, high anxiety, urgency, desperation, guilt, excessive activity (searching, searching, searching) and other behaviours such as sleeplessness that come from the terror of not knowing where your child is and having no closure or certainty about the situation.

That is very different to a scenario in which you DO know what has happened to your child. There might be grief and shock, but the fear and urgency isn’t there. There is - however awfully it might have come about - closure.

Kate and Gerry indicated none of the signs of panic and desperation one would expect to see in parents of a missing child. I remember seeing an interview with Kare in which she said that the first couple of days were difficult and they didn’t sleep, but a few weeks later they were doing much better and sleeping through the night. I remember at the time thinking that was very odd and surprisingly quick recovery from such a terrible scenario. Any parent would pick up on that as being highly unlikely.

Personally I think she died accidentally in the apartment and they covered it up, and what we saw in subsequent days was two parents probably in shock and grief but who were not desperate to find their child because they knew she was already dead - and whose most pressing concern was planning how to get themselves out of the situation.
 
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Personally I think she died accidentally in the apartment and they covered it up, and what we saw in subsequent days was two parents probably in shock and grief but who were not desperate to find their child because they knew she was already dead - and whose most pressing concern was planning how to get themselves out of the situation.
I would think this as well, But then we have all those figures in powerful positions protecting these parents.

That just does not fit.
 
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I would think this as well, But then we have all those figures in powerful positions protecting these parents.

That just does not fit.
That is the bit that is difficult to square, I agree.

I don’t subscribe to the theories about a big dark government coverup involving the media, police and legal system. I’ve been down those rabbit holes and they just go deeper and deeper with absolutely no resolution, linking up all kinds of people and shadowy organisations to the point of insanity. I don’t believe that the government, which (like any other organisation that isn’t a cult) is full of individuals who are awkward and moody and spiky and disorganised and have their own unique thoughts about things, is anywhere near agile, organised or creative enough for that.

My own assessment is that it happened organically and started with the McCanns getting the media on board early on, less through their own doing (although they did manage to hook up with the awful Clarence Mitchell) and more because the story of a photogenic couple, their pretty daughter, a terrifying “abduction” and a useless foreign police force wrote itself. The narrative was set early and an enthralled British audience couldn’t read enough about it. I rewatched the interview they gave 3 weeks after she disappeared and it is astonishing how the interviewer just goes along with the abduction theory and implies the Portuguese police bungled it. In fact I think the Portuguese police knew exactly what had happened within the first week and that it had nothing to do with an abduction.

I think what followed was a combination of strategy, error and bluff on the part of the U.K. government watching the public outpouring of support towards the McCanns and the continued sympathetic media narrative about them. Playing on distraction from what was going on at the time domestically maybe? Or wanting to build on a sense of patriotism or play up how brilliant our British police are in comparison to the fake errors of the Portuguese? Who knows. But I think it was decided that it was more politically expedient to capitalise on what was happening, and be seen as being on the side of the “good guys” I.e the McCanns - who at the same time with the help of Mitchell were proving themselves to be extraordinarily litigious.

As this trundled on through the years, and even as more and more people came to doubt the McCanns original story, the U.K. government ended up in an impossible position - and the people they needed to protect weren’t the McCanns but the reputation of the very same U.K. government who had committed to this idiocy in the first place. Way too embarrassing and difficult to back out so let’s throw more money at it and try to ignore it as much as possible. I honestly think subsequent government have stuck with this Operation Grange nonsense because they can’t figure out what to do about it without losing face. And a lot of people still believe that Madeleine was abducted and want whoever did it to be found and punished. The Op Grange money is an investment in perpetuating a myth that is so deeply embedded in modern British psyche that to rip it out would be too damaging to the reputation of the government at a time when that reputation is seriously in question.
 
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That is the bit that is difficult to square, I agree.

I don’t subscribe to the theories about a big government coverup for dark reasons unknown involving the media, police and legal system. I’ve been down those rabbit holes and they just go deeper and deeper with absolutely no resolution, linking up all kinds of people and shadowy organisations to the point of insanity. I don’t believe that the government, which (like any other organisation that isn’t a cult) is full of individuals who are awkward and moody and spiky and disorganised and have their own unique thoughts about things, is anywhere near agile, organised or creative enough for that.

My own assessment is that it happened organically and started with the McCanns getting the media on board early on, less through their own doing (although they did manage to hook up with the awful Clarence Mitchell) and more because the story of a photogenic couple, pretty little missing girl, useless foreign police wrote itself - and a captive U.K. audience was in thrall to the whole thing. I rewatched the interview they gave 3 weeks after she disappeared and it is astonishing how the interviewer just goes along with the abduction theory and implies the Portuguese police bungled it. In fact I think the Portuguese police knew exactly what had happened within the first week and that it had nothing to do with an abduction.

I think what followed was a combination of strategy, error and bluff on the part of the U.K. government watching the public outpouring of support towards the McCanns and the continued sympathetic media narrative about them. Playing on distraction from what was going on at the time domestically maybe? Or wanting to build on a sense of patriotism or play up how brilliant our British police are in comparison to the fake errors of the Portuguese? Who knows. But I think it was decided that it was more politically expedient to capitalise on what was happening, and be seen as being on the side of the “good guys” I.e the McCanns - who at the same time with the help of Mitchell were proving themselves to be extraordinarily litigious.

As this trundled on through the years, and even as more and more people came to doubt the McCanns original story, the U.K. government ended up in an impossible position - and the people they needed to protect weren’t the McCanns but the reputation of the very same U.K. government who had committed to this idiocy on the first place. Way too embarrassing and difficult to back out so let’s throw more money at it and try to ignore it as much as possible. I honestly think subsequent government have stuck with this Operation Grange nonsense because they can’t figure out what to do about it without losing face. And a lot of people still believe that Madeleine was abducted. The Op Grange money is an investment in perpetuating a myth that is so deeply embedded in modern British psyche that to rip it out would be too damaging to the reputation of the government at a time when that reputation is seriously in question.
Yeah no.

Also - a “photogenic couple” - really?! Gerry & Kate McCann?! Come on.
 
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That is the bit that is difficult to square, I agree.

I don’t subscribe to the theories about a big dark government coverup involving the media, police and legal system. I’ve been down those rabbit holes and they just go deeper and deeper with absolutely no resolution, linking up all kinds of people and shadowy organisations to the point of insanity. I don’t believe that the government, which (like any other organisation that isn’t a cult) is full of individuals who are awkward and moody and spiky and disorganised and have their own unique thoughts about things, is anywhere near agile, organised or creative enough for that.

My own assessment is that it happened organically and started with the McCanns getting the media on board early on, less through their own doing (although they did manage to hook up with the awful Clarence Mitchell) and more because the story of a photogenic couple, their pretty daughter, a terrifying “abduction” and a useless foreign police force wrote itself. The narrative was set early and an enthralled British audience couldn’t read enough about it. I rewatched the interview they gave 3 weeks after she disappeared and it is astonishing how the interviewer just goes along with the abduction theory and implies the Portuguese police bungled it. In fact I think the Portuguese police knew exactly what had happened within the first week and that it had nothing to do with an abduction.

I think what followed was a combination of strategy, error and bluff on the part of the U.K. government watching the public outpouring of support towards the McCanns and the continued sympathetic media narrative about them. Playing on distraction from what was going on at the time domestically maybe? Or wanting to build on a sense of patriotism or play up how brilliant our British police are in comparison to the fake errors of the Portuguese? Who knows. But I think it was decided that it was more politically expedient to capitalise on what was happening, and be seen as being on the side of the “good guys” I.e the McCanns - who at the same time with the help of Mitchell were proving themselves to be extraordinarily litigious.

As this trundled on through the years, and even as more and more people came to doubt the McCanns original story, the U.K. government ended up in an impossible position - and the people they needed to protect weren’t the McCanns but the reputation of the very same U.K. government who had committed to this idiocy in the first place. Way too embarrassing and difficult to back out so let’s throw more money at it and try to ignore it as much as possible. I honestly think subsequent government have stuck with this Operation Grange nonsense because they can’t figure out what to do about it without losing face. And a lot of people still believe that Madeleine was abducted and want whoever did it to be found and punished. The Op Grange money is an investment in perpetuating a myth that is so deeply embedded in modern British psyche that to rip it out would be too damaging to the reputation of the government at a time when that reputation is seriously in question.
I do think that one of the biggest factors was the fact that Gordon Brown was a bereaved father of a daughter.
 
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I do think that one of the biggest factors was the fact that Gordon Brown was a bereaved father of a daughter.
Yes, I forgot about that. She had died only a couple of years before Madeleine I think. He empathised with them. I think that’s the kind of small, human cog in the machinery that ends up having a much bigger impact than anyone could envisage at the time. And much more believable than the massive government coverup theory which never holds up to sensible scrutiny.
 
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It seems to be a massive coincidence that Christian Bruckner, a child sex offender, was living in the area when MM disappeared.
Is there a reason why posters on this thread do not consider it likely that Bruckner abducted and killed MM?
 
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It seems to be a massive coincidence that Christian Bruckner, a child sex offender, was living in the area when MM disappeared.
Is there a reason why posters on this thread do not consider it likely that Bruckner abducted and killed MM?
Because in the specific case of Brueckner, despite considerable police investigation and being charged for offences against other children he has not been charged with Madeleine’s abduction or killing or anything else. This leads me to conclude that there is insubstantial evidence linking him to this crime.
 
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It seems to be a massive coincidence that Christian Bruckner, a child sex offender, was living in the area when MM disappeared.
Is there a reason why posters on this thread do not consider it likely that Bruckner abducted and killed MM?
There was a good documentary on Channel 4 or 5 about exploring his link to MM. There didn’t seem to be a lot other than him being an absolute tit person and he claims to have a possible alibi for the night she went missing - the problem is that the girl couldn’t confirm it because it happened so long ago
 
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It seems to be a massive coincidence that Christian Bruckner, a child sex offender, was living in the area when MM disappeared.
Is there a reason why posters on this thread do not consider it likely that Bruckner abducted and killed MM?
As awful as it is, I imagine there will be child sexual offenders within a radius wherever.
the fact he is in prison, has been charged with other offences and seems to have a different age range and hasn’t really been questioned doesn’t fill with hope.
Is he a terrible person who should be locked away - everything suggests yes, but that’s as far as I can see it goes.
 
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Because in the specific case of Brueckner, despite considerable police investigation and being charged for offences against other children he has not been charged with Madeleine’s abduction or killing or anything else. This leads me to conclude that there is insubstantial evidence linking him to this crime.
Thanks for your reply. Brueckner is an arguido, named suspect, though same as MM parents.
It just seems posters are more inclined to think her parents are involved with MM's disappearance rather than Brueckner?
 
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They were friends with clement frued, a pweirdo, he lived local to their resort.
they have David Cameron’s mobile phone number.
there was a royal boat docked nearby around the time of the ‘abduction’, Kate sat at the rocks looking out to sea, something a mother would do if that was The last place she’d seen her child. Likely taken out of the country by boat.
The government were definitely involved and helping in the background imo, and not because they were British supposedly being vilified by the Portuguese, but because it would uncover a huge secret if the mccanns outed who was involved. That’s how they got away with it.
I mean who ring sky news to report a missing child when she could have turned up a minute later?! I’d be running around like a headless chicken screaming until I was sedated if my child was missing

Thanks for your reply. Brueckner is an arguido, named suspect, though same as MM parents.
It just seems posters are more inclined to think her parents are involved with MM's disappearance rather than Brueckner?
the only dna in the apartmentwas Kate’s. If another person had taken Maddie there would have been traces somewhere even if they wore gloves or didn’t touch anything.
 
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As awful as it is, I imagine there will be child sexual offenders within a radius wherever.
the fact he is in prison, has been charged with other offences and seems to have a different age range and hasn’t really been questioned doesn’t fill with hope.
Is he a terrible person who should be locked away - everything suggests yes, but that’s as far as I can see it goes.
Exactly. Every town in the UK and Portugal probably has a child sex offender living in it. The Algarve and the Costa Del Sol tend to attract a lot of drifters as well from all over Europe (not saying all drift there for bad reasons, but some wronguns do, particularly if they are on the run from somewhere else), and maybe paedos are even attracted there for easy access to kids and teens on holidays, beaches and pools etc.
 
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Because in the specific case of Brueckner, despite considerable police investigation and being charged for offences against other children he has not been charged with Madeleine’s abduction or killing or anything else. This leads me to conclude that there is insubstantial evidence linking him to this crime.
Apparently forensics on the German were destroyed
 
They were friends with clement frued, a pweirdo, he lived local to their resort.
they have David Cameron’s mobile phone number.
there was a royal boat docked nearby around the time of the ‘abduction’, Kate sat at the rocks looking out to sea, something a mother would do if that was The last place she’d seen her child. Likely taken out of the country by boat.
The government were definitely involved and helping in the background imo, and not because they were British supposedly being vilified by the Portuguese, but because it would uncover a huge secret if the mccanns outed who was involved. That’s how they got away with it.
I mean who ring sky news to report a missing child when she could have turned up a minute later?! I’d be running around like a headless chicken screaming until I was sedated if my child was missing



the only dna in the apartmentwas Kate’s. If another person had taken Maddie there would have been traces somewhere even if they wore gloves or didn’t touch anything.
Clement Freud contacted MM's parents 2x months after she disappeared and invited them to his home in Portugal for a meal.
I cannot see why the British government would become involved to protect whoever the parents were going to say was involved.
An abductors DNA would not necessarily be found in the apartment.

At first I thought, as did everyone else, that her parents had something to do with her disappearance, as it usually involves parents or close family in these cases re children.
But I cannot see there is any evidence of parent's involvement, needless to say of course they shouldn't have left 3x tiny children alone in an unlocked apartment.
The parents are litigious and appear abrasive at times, but that doesn't mean they are connected with MM's disappearance.
 
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Apparently forensics on the German were destroyed
Well, that’s not quite right?
The biological evidence … which may or may not have been from him and which sounds like it was degraded and unusable was destroyed … although if they had obtained a DNA profile that would still be on record?
 
Well, that’s not quite right?
The biological evidence … which may or may not have been from him and which sounds like it was degraded and unusable was destroyed … although if they had obtained a DNA profile that would still be on record?
Maybe they didn’t? Why would they be reluctant to hand it over if they have it on record ? the Maddie investigation was flawed from the start , how reliable are the police in that small town 🤷🏼‍♀️
 
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