Madeleine McCann #4

[Chicken Man]

@Chicken Man do you have the photos you are taking about so we can see?

I can no longed edit my original response. Here is the Donegal egg-rolling picture. The obscuration of the minors' features was done by Cameron at source. It's only the absence of such on the girl which suggests it's 'supposed' to be MBM.

From memory, this picture was never releasesld with any explicit statement that it IS MBM. It's only the similarity to others in Donegal (and yet the difference) which led people to consider that it IS her.

If it IS her, then why the age/size discrepancy ? If not, then why dress her the same as in the other pictures which ARE declared to be her.

Redirect Notice

 

[Multi-21]

I can no longed edit my original response. Here is the Donegal egg-rolling picture. The obscuration of the minors' features was done by Cameron at source. It's only the absence of such on the girl which suggests it's 'supposed' to be MBM.

From memory, this picture was never releasesld with any explicit statement that it IS MBM. It's only the similarity to others in Donegal (and yet the difference) which led people to consider that it IS her.

If it IS her, then why the age/size discrepancy ? If not, then why dress her the same as in the other pictures which ARE declared to be her.

Redirect Notice

Surely that’s a different child? Like you say there is a size difference and facially it doesn’t look how I would expect.
Maybe that is a cousin and they were dressed the same as a grandparent bought the two girls the outfits?
My MIL always buys the same thing for my two nieces who are cousins and loves having photos of them together.

 

[Mollywobbles]

Who is stalking that family to take so many photos? Very unfair on the twins

 

[Chicken Man]

I don’t get what you mean!
Are you trying to claim that Madeleine never existed?

Sort of. I don't doubt that -someone- traveled 'as' Madeleine on that holiday.

I am saying that the Madeleine on the plane pictures, on the Donegal holiday, and in a few other places is not the same person.

I believe that her 'disappearance' was nothing out of the ordinary. Once she'd got to PdL, she went on to wherever she was going.

I haven't got a full working hypothesis yet. Best guess so far is:

MBM was born (maybe as a twin) possibly years earlier than 2003.
MBM died about the age of 3
KMH started to convince herself that MBM was still alive.
The holiday to PdL came around
Someone wanted to transport a girl to (somewhere) and the McCanns used MBM's passport to do so (still valid upto age five, and unrecognisable from a baby)
This girl had to get used to being called Madeleine for a while
KMH imprinted on this girl to the extenf that she thought she /was/ Madeleine.
When Madeleine went wherever she was going, KMH naturally interpreted that as her being 'abducted'
She then freaked. Left the twins in situ because she knew that the twins were not part of the deal.
When the remaining T9 elements heard KMH's outburst, they were used to it because they were well aware of her obsessive behaviour.

That's what they are keeping secret: KMH's instability, not any murder or disposal.

 

[Multi-21]

Surely that theory would have been uncovered by the police very quickly through birth records?

 

[Chicken Man]

Surely that’s a different child? Like you say there is a size difference and facially it doesn’t look how I would expect.
Maybe that is a cousin and they were dressed the same as a grandparent bought the two girls the outfits?
My MIL always buys the same thing for my two nieces who are cousins and loves having photos of them together.

We are getting somewhere. It's not the same child! As I said, if you hadn't seen it in context with the other pictures, you wouldn't connect it to MBM at all.

Yes, it could be a cousin but then one has to ask why Sean and Amélie and Fiona and Gregor are there with this 'other cousin' in that picture, but with the 'real' MBM in the other picture. Why not have all six of them in one picture ?

This egg-rolling picture was uploaded apparently by accident by a Paul Cameron amongst a load of other completely unrelated pictures (basically university pub crawls).

I'm not sure who this Cameron character is, but there is speculation that some of the extended famille are not happy with the ongoing deception, and are planting Easter Eggs (literally, in this case) to get the real story out but without compromising the family integrity.

Surely that theory would have been uncovered by the police very quickly through birth records?

You would have thought so, wouldn't you ? However, OG have actively shielded the McCs and have stymied the investigation against them at every turn. If they can cover that up, then hiding BMD records wouldn't be a problem. Also, people bear children and 'adopt' them off the record all the time. It would be naïve to assume that every person in the UK is correctly certificated.

 

[Hot_Dogs_Or_Toes]

Chicken Man, on a thread full of wild conspiracy theories you have won the award for the most lunatic of theories congratulations.

 

[Shinealight]

Sort of. I don't doubt that -someone- traveled 'as' Madeleine on that holiday.

I am saying that the Madeleine on the plane pictures, on the Donegal holiday, and in a few other places is not the same person.

I believe that her 'disappearance' was nothing out of the ordinary. Once she'd got to PdL, she went on to wherever she was going.

I haven't got a full working hypothesis yet. Best guess so far is:

MBM was born (maybe as a twin) possibly years earlier than 2003.
MBM died about the age of 3
KMH started to convince herself that MBM was still alive.
The holiday to PdL came around
Someone wanted to transport a girl to (somewhere) and the McCanns used MBM's passport to do so (still valid upto age five, and unrecognisable from a baby)
This girl had to get used to being called Madeleine for a while
KMH imprinted on this girl to the extenf that she thought she /was/ Madeleine.
When Madeleine went wherever she was going, KMH naturally interpreted that as her being 'abducted'
She then freaked. Left the twins in situ because she knew that the twins were not part of the deal.
When the remaining T9 elements heard KMH's outburst, they were used to it because they were well aware of her obsessive behaviour.

That's what they are keeping secret: KMH's instability, not any murder or disposal.

Who’s KMH?
And how did they explain Madeleine being dead for quite some time before that holiday?
Were all her extended family in on it?
Questions would have been asked by many people if Madeleine died some time before the holiday, people would have wondered where she was!
If Madeleine had died quite some time before that holiday why would they have covered it up?
Who the hell thinks all this up?
It’s just madness.

 

[Pulltheotherone]

My money is on too much mulled wine !

 

[Chicken Man]

Who is stalking that family to take so many photos? Very unfair on the twins

Yes, stalking and taking many photos would be unfair on the twins. It's unlawful now, but it wasn't so in 2007.

I'm confused though; what are these 'many photos' of which you speak ? All the ones I have posted have been available for very long time.

Who’s KMH?
And how did they explain Madeleine being dead for quite some time before that holiday?
Were all her extended family in on it?
Questions would have been asked by many people if Madeleine died some time before the holiday, people would have wondered where she was!
If Madeleine had died quite some time before that holiday why would they have covered it up?
Who the hell thinks all this up?
It’s just madness.

 

[Emsie]

Try this one, first. It's not the best resolution, but I'm on my cellphone, and can't search properly.

In this pic it doesn't seem unusual. I mean yeah that one kid is pressing down on Amelies head which is kind of bizarre but children are bizarre. The boy on the end isn't pulling Sean out of shot he's got his arm round him. I can't see where another person would be in the shot?
I'm confused with what you're saying about the size of maddie and being replaced with a twin. Wouldn't a twin be the same size? Also IVF doesn't guarantee twins, yes probably more common but no guarantee and ivf twins are usually non identical because its two different eggs (rather than one egg splitting)

 

[Chicken Man]

Who’s KMH?
And how did they explain Madeleine being dead for quite some time before that holiday?
Were all her extended family in on it?
Questions would have been asked by many people if Madeleine died some time before the holiday, people would have wondered where she was!
If Madeleine had died quite some time before that holiday why would they have covered it up?
Who the hell thinks all this up?
It’s just madness.

I don't claim to have all the answers. I said it was a 'best guess'. I appreciate there are significant holes in the hypothesis. Nevertheless, whichever way I remodel it, it keeps coming back to the 'substitute child' theory.

You are being generous when you say that many people would have asked questions. We'd like to think they would but, if anything, this charade has made it clear that people don't even want to think about things critically. If they did, all the contradictions in this story would take centre-stage, but they don't: a substantial part of the UK population won't look beyond the idea that a child is missing and see that KMH and GPM are whiter-than-white. Even if one believes they are innocent, then there are still contradictions to be resolved but nobody even goes there.

Regarding MBM dying some time prior, would people even notice ? I don't know what sort of demographic you inhabit, but in some milieux, it is perfectly possible to pass someone off as 'your child' or to claim not to have a child that you do have. I can hear the childer of my neighbour, but I have no idea how many there are. More importantly, if one were replaced by another, I don't think anyone would notice.

So, were the extended famille 'in on it' ? Not exactly. I believe they all 'knew' about KMH's behaviour and worked to shield it fron people. When this cover-up happened, they were pretty much forced to go along with it. Especially now that 12M£ has been spent, they are going to reluctantly keep the charade going, because it has now reached the stage of major criminal fraud. They don't want to continue but they are in too deep, want it to stop but at the same time, don't want to put othwr famille members under the bus to do so.

 

[mchammerr]

Sort of. I don't doubt that -someone- traveled 'as' Madeleine on that holiday.

I am saying that the Madeleine on the plane pictures, on the Donegal holiday, and in a few other places is not the same person.

I believe that her 'disappearance' was nothing out of the ordinary. Once she'd got to PdL, she went on to wherever she was going.

I haven't got a full working hypothesis yet. Best guess so far is:

MBM was born (maybe as a twin) possibly years earlier than 2003.
MBM died about the age of 3
KMH started to convince herself that MBM was still alive.
The holiday to PdL came around
Someone wanted to transport a girl to (somewhere) and the McCanns used MBM's passport to do so (still valid upto age five, and unrecognisable from a baby)
This girl had to get used to being called Madeleine for a while
KMH imprinted on this girl to the extenf that she thought she /was/ Madeleine.
When Madeleine went wherever she was going, KMH naturally interpreted that as her being 'abducted'
She then freaked. Left the twins in situ because she knew that the twins were not part of the deal.
When the remaining T9 elements heard KMH's outburst, they were used to it because they were well aware of her obsessive behaviour.

That's what they are keeping secret: KMH's instability, not any murder or disposal.

Sorry but this makes no sense whatsoever, are you saying the whole family and everyone who knew them went along with this?

 

[Emsie]

Nah come on now. Kate or Gerrys parents would have said take no notice she's unwell. And even if they held some crazy loyalty someone would be like nooo she died years ago.
I get what you're saying about neighbours etc and that makes sense, but what about people that are closer than neighbours but not loyal like family. People you went to school with, worked with, doctors, nursery care, friends of friends etc.

 

[Facehugger]

My money is on too much mulled wine !

Moonshine by the sounds of it. Ye lord

 

[Shinealight]

I don't claim to have all the answers. I said it was a 'best guess'. I appreciate there are significant holes in the hypothesis. Nevertheless, whichever way I remodel it, it keeps coming back to the 'substitute child' theory.

You are being generous when you say that many people would have asked questions. We'd like to think they would but, if anything, this charade has made it clear that people don't even want to think about things critically. If they did, all the contradictions in this story would take centre-stage, but they don't: a substantial part of the UK population won't look beyond the idea that a child is missing and see that KMH and GPM are whiter-than-white. Even if one believes they are innocent, then there are still contradictions to be resolved but nobody even goes there.

Regarding MBM dying some time prior, would people even notice ? I don't know what sort of demographic you inhabit, but in some milieux, it is perfectly possible to pass someone off as 'your child' or to claim not to have a child that you do have. I can hear the childer of my neighbour, but I have no idea how many there are. More importantly, if one were replaced by another, I don't think anyone would notice.

So, were the extended famille 'in on it' ? Not exactly. I believe they all 'knew' about KMH's behaviour and worked to shield it fron people. When this cover-up happened, they were pretty much forced to go along with it. Especially now that 12M£ has been spent, they are going to reluctantly keep the charade going, because it has now reached the stage of major criminal fraud. They don't want to continue but they are in too deep, want it to stop but at the same time, don't want to put othwr famille members under the bus to do so.

Sorry it would never have gotten so far.
Relatives and child minders would definitely ask questions about a missing child.
And as a grandparent I know that I’d definitely notice if another child was being passed off as my grandchild.
There’s just no substance to your claims.
None whatsoever.

 

[Okgolightly]

Sort of. I don't doubt that -someone- traveled 'as' Madeleine on that holiday.

I am saying that the Madeleine on the plane pictures, on the Donegal holiday, and in a few other places is not the same person.

I believe that her 'disappearance' was nothing out of the ordinary. Once she'd got to PdL, she went on to wherever she was going.

I haven't got a full working hypothesis yet. Best guess so far is:

MBM was born (maybe as a twin) possibly years earlier than 2003.
MBM died about the age of 3
KMH started to convince herself that MBM was still alive.
The holiday to PdL came around
Someone wanted to transport a girl to (somewhere) and the McCanns used MBM's passport to do so (still valid upto age five, and unrecognisable from a baby)
This girl had to get used to being called Madeleine for a while
KMH imprinted on this girl to the extenf that she thought she /was/ Madeleine.
When Madeleine went wherever she was going, KMH naturally interpreted that as her being 'abducted'
She then freaked. Left the twins in situ because she knew that the twins were not part of the deal.
When the remaining T9 elements heard KMH's outburst, they were used to it because they were well aware of her obsessive behaviour.

That's what they are keeping secret: KMH's instability, not any murder or disposal.

This is the weirdest thing I have ever read…Kudos?

 

[Chicken Man]

Sorry it would never have gotten so far.
Relatives and child minders would definitely ask questions about a missing child.
And as a grandparent I know that I’d definitely notice if another child was being passed off as my grandchild.
There’s just no substance to your claims.
None whatsoever.

Yes, you would notice if YOUR grandchild were passed off as another. We are talking of a person amongst a grop of similar-looking blonde girls who, at the time, were just ordinary British tourists, who would've been gone within the week and replaced by another lot. When you take into account the transitory nature of the nannies' employment, having of 20? Lobsters and Sharks in the same space, the shenanigans with the signing in-out sheets, it is more than possible to pass one child off as another. Some people have speculated that any deep-probing of the nannies would have revealed this, and that this is the reason they were shipped off to Egypt before the PJ could get to them.

Yes, my claims have no substance. That's because I'm not claiming anything. It's just that I am trying to fit the many many contradictions into a working theory which doesn't involve abduction or death-in-the-apartment, because the evidence that I can see completely rules those possibilities out.

The population has reached a deadlock, with the sedate-die-dispose crowd and the stranger-abduction crowd both remaining intransigent despite each side having significant data points to endorse their claim and to debunk the other sides'

This, to me, suggests that neither is correct, and that CM has deliberately fostered this bipartisan arrangement because.. well, who knows ?

The only thing I can do, is to abandon all previous knowns and start afresh.
So far everything keeps coming back to the idea of child substitution.

 

[Emsie]

Yes, you would notice if YOUR grandchild were passed off as another. We are talking of a person amongst a grop of similar-looking blonde girls who, at the time, were just ordinary British tourists, who would've been gone within the week and replaced by another lot. When you take into account the transitory nature of the nannies' employment, having of 20? Lobsters and Sharks in the same space, the shenanigans with the signing in-out sheets, it is more than possible to pass one child off as another. Some people have speculated that any deep-probing of the nannies would have revealed this, and that this is the reason they were shipped off to Egypt before the PJ could get to them.

Yes, my claims have no substance. That's because I'm not claiming anything. It's just that I am trying to fit the many many contradictions into a working theory which doesn't involve abduction or death-in-the-apartment, because the evidence that I can see completely rules those possibilities out.

The population has reached a deadlock, with the sedate-die-dispose crowd and the stranger-abduction crowd both remaining intransigent despite each side having significant data points to endorse their claim and to debunk the other sides'

This, to me, suggests that neither is correct, and that CM has deliberately fostered this bipartisan arrangement because.. well, who knows ?

The only thing I can do, is to abandon all previous knowns and start afresh.
So far everything keeps coming back to the idea of child substitution.

As much as I don't think your theory makes sense what you've said in this post makes perfect sense.

 

[Chicken Man]

This is the weirdest thing I have ever read…Kudos?

Why 'weird'. If you've analysed the pictures as much as I have, it would be difficult to conclude otherwise.

If you think my current theory is weird, you wouldn't think much of my earlier theories (from which this evolved) which involved being abducted by means of time travellers,.the Mandela effect, and Bostrom' Simulation Hypothesis.

Anyway, what's so weird about a slightly-unhinged woman claiming she had a child but doesn't, compared to the weirdness of pimping one's child out, leaving them in an insecure room, piggy-backing a child's dead body into an existing coffin, transporting a DB in the boot of a car, burning a body in that pet crematorium, or dissolving same in the Huelva acid baths. Compared to that lot, the idea of a woman having an imaginary friend is minor !

My theory still has a way to go, but I remain convinced that, at some level, MBM is 'not real'. Whether this is due to twins, early death, photo maniplulation, cloning, name-changing, identity theft, I don't yet know.