Lucy Letby Case #2

[Ittybittytittyclub]

I just don't understand any of it.

How can they say that the babies have been killed with insulin and air, but it wasn't picked up in a post mortem at the time as this would have obviously would screamed something was going on?

Its not like they could dig up the babies and do tests on them now as it's already been said on here that these 2 methods are hard to prove as they are quickly absorbed.

I just can't see what their evidence for this method of killing will be at all.

I believe, and anyone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but a) some of the babies didn’t even have post mortems and b) like you say these methods are quickly absorbed. I think because they were in NICU already, their deaths may have been put down to problems they were already suffering from. Although some of these illnesses weren’t life threatening, it’s known that, unfortunately, babies that small can suddenly take a turn for the worse

 

[stephobz]

Oh god sky news have accidentally named child c by not redacting a quote. I hope they realise and remove it

The children have all been named before, in older news articles. Is there a reason they are not being named in reporting now? I’m assuming it’s to protect the identity of the parents/prevent them from being hounded online? And also any surviving siblings I suppose.

 

[dottynotty]

Thank you! I’m theatres, we have to sell our soul to get a 6 or know the right people… obviously

I’m not sure about NICU, but in general ITU you need to do the ITU Course to enable you to apply for band six.

 

[veevee04]

She wasn’t the nurse for child B so why would she have the handover sheet for child B? I absolutely have taken home my lists but it never contains information about a patient not in my care. That’s the red flag for me

I don't know about NICU I don't work on them but handover for me is a big list , it doesn't have the patients name say name someone is called Joe Bloggs they will be called JB , it will say risks allergies etc . It says their OBS , medications whether they accepted medication. Any incidents etc. It doesn't have their entire life story or about their family that would be on the notes on the computer. Does NICU not have a large handover in the morning and evening of all patients?

 

[super grateful]

I would like to know if she fussed around the parents after the babies had suddenly become seriously ill or passed away.

Did she hop into action and a play kind of angelic nurse role with the families, helping them through their trauma and grief “we couldn’t of coped without you Lucy” kind of thing. Was she doing that and getting a kick out of the feeling she got from it possibly?

Or did she distance herself from them completely.

That’s a super interesting question. Thriving off their attention / being the saviour or did she run off and watch from afar! Intrigued.

(If guilty of course. I’m in camp don’t know)

 

[Tangerine Cat]

Would the parents be called as witnesses?

Of course, anyone could if they witnessed something or the police think they did

For me Day 1 my two biggest issues are

Honestly I think this is going to have a major impact on the jury.

Not sure it would me. It’s the evidence towards the murder and harm of all those babies that’s crucial.

 

[Toffeebythesea]

She came on shift at 7:30pm, did a 30 minute handover and then baby collapsed at around 8:20. It’s all in the reports from today.

Wow. Thank you. The details really make it seem so much more real and heartbreaking don't they.

 

[dustyrhodes]

I think this may be where the hospital failures may play a part. Whatever the outcome those babies were failed. Even if Lucy is guilty I hope there is a full inquiry to how a serial killer was able to go so long unnoticed. And if she isn’t a killer then what the hell actually happened.

My initial thoughts, and maybe some HCPs could shed some light on this, is that the prosecution are saying LL was a constant, which means the other staff members for each incident would vary. I’ve no idea how big these teams are. So for example, these first 5 babies, could they have each had a different senior medic respond (not sure what role, excuse my ignorance) so whilst that individual doctor may think something was unusual, they may not be privy at that stage about the other cases so there wouldn’t initially be any concern?

I’m wondering who at the hospital would oversee the whole department and look at all deaths and serious incidents and should be alert to unusual trends?

i don’t mean to belittle the case by this comparison but in my old role as a CS manager, I would review all complaint cases but probably on a monthly basis. It might not be until a few months I could spot a particular trend. Who would be the equivalent in the hospital. And if the hospital had significant failures, then what processes fell short to pick up on these incidents - whether it was Lucy harming them or some other cause.

ETA: I said before the trial started that both a failing hospital and serial killer could exist at the same time. Maybe she knew the hospital weaknesses and thought she could get away with it.

YES exactly this!

 

[candyland_]

Did she have a boyfriend or friends ? Wonder what her life was like

There doesn’t seem to have been any mention of a boyfriend but her friends have said good things about her to the media.

 

[stardust1]

If there’s any evidence of her blowing the whistle on senior management I would say it’s an excellent defence for her.

as I say, let’s see if any evidence of this occurs….

I’d guess they would do a SAR to find any evidence of this whistle blowing from LL. I am pretty sure that would also include deleted documentation. I’d hope for her sake she has the evidence on her part of where she whistle blew. I’m pretty certain if they wanted to get rid of her there would be much easier ways to do it than accuse her of something so hideous.

For any nurses:

If you were understaffed/felt that machines weren’t working and it was effecting your job and many babies were dying would you turn a blind eye and crack on or would you feel it was your responsibility to do something about it to protect your self?

 

[Tui]

It’s just been one day of evidence though..

Sure I’m just saying we cant say either way whether the evidence is strong or not

 

[super grateful]

I think neonatal nurses are band 5 but then if they do extra critical care nursing then band 6?
Neonatal is 3 levels. Critical care, high dependency and special care.

That’s also true. Most specialities have a “course” that you can do after a certain length of time. Ie I did my post grad ICU course 3 years after starting in ICU. Some trusts would then make me a band 6 upon completion of this, whereas my Trust don’t have this policy and you stay as a 5. So yeah maybe if she has done her course and her Trust is decent, she could be a 6.

 

[Leo100]

The old thread was locked and now it isn't

 

[AllSeeingEye123]

Why must they have doubts?

Because other than blind faith in her because she is their daughter, there are bound to doubt she's not guilty like she's said.

 

[super grateful]

I don’t find searching for someone you have came into contact on Facebook weird but to search for the family 8 times including on Christmas Day, surely this is a bit unhinged.

I was hoping she wasn’t going to be guilty but with every detail it gets worseView attachment 1642486

Wonder if there is a pattern to those dates. Once a month but why THOSE dates?

 

[Gymhoned]

I can’t stop thinking about or reading about this case. My baby girl was born in June and spent just over 2 weeks in NICU with sepsis, acute kidney failure and respiratory issues. She had a central IV line, cannulas, feeding tube, was on a ventilator… the thought that somebody could purposely harm these tiny little babies makes me feel sick to my stomach. You put so much trust in the nurses, especially at night time when you have to leave them, you think oh they’re safe they’re in the best place. It’s so so sad I can’t quite put into words what I want to say.

Part of me wants to stop reading about it but I can’t

Im so sorry. Hope all is ok now? Must have been so worrying.

 

[Alicedownthehole]

Following this case, just putting myself here. Is there any knowledge of she had a triggering event?

 

[juy7nhio]

Where are you seeing the updates?

look at judith moritz on twitter, shes live tweeting

 

[crumpets2]

I Used to see no one else except the 1 nurse 7am-7pm and then a new one would come in from 8pm. Maybe they checked outside of the room?I‘d like to hope so but it now has me thinking about how they ended up giving my son too much morphine and would it actually have been very easy for them
To do something on purpose.

They could well of checked outside the room. I’m sorry to hear what happened with your son x

 

[acsunderland]

This whole case is absolutely heartbreaking. I genuinely don’t get the whole ‘she looks innocent’, I may be looking at her based on what she’s standing trial for but her photo gives me the shivers.

As a nurse yes there are things you are MEANT to do such as certain meds being signed for by two nurses but when it’s busy and you trust who you’re working with, often nurses won’t even look or watch what has been drawn up or added to an Iv and will just counter sign. The whole thing about her attending to other baby’s who weren’t in her direct care also is something normal as often you will help your colleagues over breaks or if they’re busier than you to help them out. The Facebook stalking again I think a lot of nurses do this especially as often we are so short staffed we genuinely go home in a
panic thinking omg is that patient/family okay. We are so short staffed and over worked it is hard to switch off.
I do think that there is a lot more to come out from this trial though and my gut instinct is she is guilty. I’ve often been torn about the use of cctv in health care as you couldn’t have them in patient areas for confidentially so a nurse could easy mix an Iv in an area with cctv but then add something behind the curtain in a patient area. I do see though how it could protect both staff and patients.
I just want to add I may have got this wrong as there was a lot on this list to catch up on but the poster who had social service due to their child ingesting an antibiotic. Yes ‘most’ antibiotics are harmless but the point is the child ingested something not meant for them. What if this had been a strong opioid or even something like ecstasy? I think in this case social services were right to contact you. Just cos you were innocent doesn’t mean to say a child in a similar situation isn’t at risk. Again I do apologise if I have missed the explanation for this. I think social workers and health visitors get a bad rap for doing their jobs at times xx

I agree have had minimal dealings with them myself and didn’t mind coz they were actually doing their job but a lot of people slip thru the net