Lucy Letby Case #2

[Ittybittytittyclub]

This is confusing me. Operation Hummingbird has cost millions and this job advert makes me wonder if theres more to come out. I did wonder if she was part of a 'cult' or 'ring' with other nurses worldwide but that might sound a bit far fetched and I'm overthinking this job advert.

Sorry I’ve obviously missed it but what is the job advert and how does it relate to LL?

 

[Magurndy]

But are all these small things just part of a larger thread that the prosecution are using to paint a picture of her?
"She may look sweet and innocent and people will say she was a good nurse but in reality she didn't care about laws, or rules or professional standards" or that sort of thing?
The things we are being presented with aren't enough to say she killed anyone, but this is a marathon not a sprint.

Yes! That's pretty much what I am trying to articulate with regard to this specific case.

It's so easy to respond to with a picture of an overworked nurse who cares so much that she wants to see how the family of someone who died in her care are getting on which is a normal part of closure even for a professional (I'm not saying I particularly think that is the case for her) that I'll be surprised if they bother.

Yes, and to be honest there are of course much more pressing arguments to make but doesn't matter if you are overworked or not, you are expected to adhere to your code of conduct at all times.... but I doubt they will have to go into the semantics of that

 

[super grateful]

I have no medical expertise as you will be able to tell from the way I word this so please accept my premature apology. I'm sorry.


Is there a way to tell when a baby has digested what they've been given in one of those bags in order to know when the stomach is empty?

Thank you.

Really nice to see comments that are engaged and thoughtful. Social media is full of "let her rot" etc, and, though I know this is a highly emotive case, it achieves nothing apart from to make me despair.

I watch with interest as more details are given.

Those poor babies and their families.

What I will say is that in only two days the level of respect I have for HCP has multiplied. Thanks to you all.

I’m catching up so apologies if someone has beat me to it. If someone has an NG tube (which goes into your nose and down to your stomach) then you aspirate the tube regularly to see if feed comes back. If you can aspirate feed, that means it isn’t being absorbed. Also can aspirate air from the tube for comfort.

 

[Tangerine Cat]

Thai may be a stupid question but why do they expect the trial to take so long ? They have been working on it behind the scenes for years

Because there are so many victims to go though and you will hear evidence towards the person who harmed them to be LL…… then the defence begins which will try to pick it all apart.

 

[al255]

Something doesn't add up. If multiple times in the case of one child she was ignoring instructions and was there when they child was deteriorating, WHY wasn't she pulled off duty and why didn't they look into it?

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. Whether they were short staffed or not, if she ignoring instructions and was around a child when they because poorly and deteriorating, they should have taken her away from her job and looked into it.

Something is very off about it all.

i wonder if they were just such short staffed, they didn’t want to lose what staff they had. People too busy to notice something was fully amiss.

I’m following live today!

 

[CoffeeandCookies]

Part of safety checks at the start of your shift are setting your alarm limits and volumes, however I’ve taken over from a patient where alarm limits are not appropriate to the patient - and some which always have to be on are switched off.

I’d imagine it’s different on an ICU or HDU in neo-natal and I’m sure someone with more medical knowledge than I have will know but when I was on the children’s ward with my baby the monitor alarms were going off constantly when the drips stopped working. Usually if baby rolled over and it was a sound all night and didn’t usually get an immediate response. However I’d like to think this wasn’t the case on these units

 

[e.l.lofthouse]

Referencing the screenshot

That in itself isn't suspicious to me either one of my dear patients who I nursed on and off for 2 years died a short while ago. Someone new has moved into their side room and to be honest while it was sad its nice there's life in there now. Walking past that empty room was upsetting and sad.



No it's because these cases have turned out to be unsafe later down the line and then later acquitted. Look at Lucia De Burke and Daniela Poggiali.

Yeah her wanting to be in that room wouldn't usually be a red flag. Byt then again, the baby who died, she's accused of killing

 

[CrazyGiraffeLady]

If she is innocent (I’m on the fence with it) will it come down to someone else has done it deliberately or just a series of catastrophic mistakes?

 

[dustyrhodes]

For me Day 1 my two biggest issues are

I agree. We have seen that already re the Facebook searches where she said she doesn't remember but if that's what they found then she accepts she did. Not offering any other explanation.
I would also hate to be judged on my internet history, without context these things can look very strange. I won't say I've never searched for a random person I've encountered, I'm a nosey begger.

Honestly I think this is going to have a major impact on the jury.

 

[e.l.lofthouse]

Same haha , I was going to Google a book called how to kill your family and get away with it but I chickened out and searched the authors name instead

I get well nervous about stuff like that and I can't even kill a wasp and I'm allergic haha

 

[Milktray]

Equally… if you were innocent you could ask if they’ve got the bag still so her own legal team could get it inspected too.

I'm not sure we heard verbatim what was said so I personally wouldn’t draw anything from it - yet….

I agree. I think her defence will rip that comment up because it really doesn't imply guilt.

 

[e.l.lofthouse]

The hospital are not on trial though. Yes they have failed but this trial is purely to determine if LL is guilty of a crime. Regardless of that, the hospital will be under incredible scrutiny and following this trial, there will potentially be a separate investigation/inquest raised to work out how this was allowed to happen. The parents may decide to pursue the hospital for negligence...but at the moment, hands are tied until they have an outcome from this trial.

But it can be used in her defence. Them not being on trial doesn't matter if they failed and it can be used in her defence

 

[Mascaragirl]

Case is starting again with details coming out on sky news now.

 

[stardust1]

I’m glad! And yes definitely, I’ve made mistakes before that still flash in my mind when carrying out the task now and remind me to be extra cautious (again, nothing life threatening, just stuff like not securely fastening a tube and then it migrating out or not documenting something correctly and it causing confusion - mistakes stick with you and you learn from them, it’s how you become experienced).

Gosh that’s a hard one. I think, in my own unit anyway, the incompetent staff are well known… And if someone is cocky, arrogant or appears to have all their shit together, they’re one to watch too! Being so incompetent and slipping under the radar would take a great amount of personality altering. Does that make sense? It’s been a long day ha!

yes perfect sense, I don’t work in health care but it is obvious at work who aren’t very competent. I do wonder if the other nurses ever had any concerns at the time. I’d probably imagine they wouldn’t want to say too much incase they get thrown under the bus too. If you noticed someone was making multiple mistAkes would that generally get reported/documented?

 

[acsunderland]

The number of victims - each case needs to be presented on its own merits. It's 7 murder trials and 10 attempted murder trials all at once.

Said in an article earlier she’s facing 15 counts of attempted murder I found that strange considering the victims

 

[allyouneedislove]

Another thing the notes not written up on the day of care- this happens a lot but you have to document exactly when the care was given and document that the records are written in retrospect from nursing notes made on whatever date. Obs and meds have to be signed off at the time of being done. Where I worked handovers were never just patient initials, often we had patients with the same initials. It was always both names. Yes you are meant to get rid of them in confidential waste at end of shift but human nature sometimes after a busy shift u forget xx

 

[crumpets2]

If it was equipment malfunctioning, why would it only ever happen on Lucy’s watch over the course of an entire year and not any other nurse? How would the hospital go about covering this up without the police finding out after years of investigating?

Good points, she could of also been incompetent. It was just one of my thoughts before more evidence came to light yesterday.

 

[Theyeahyeahs]

Joining late but very interested in this case.

I am an ICU Nurse, so knowing how an ICU works (adult/child/neonatal) I’m keen to understand how this all unfolded.

I did read that she was “in the second highest band”, so am I right in thinking she was a band 7? Ie. Senior Sister. Can anyone correct this please?

I have only skimmed the 1st thread, but did read some things such as “can a nurse administer insulin” “why wasn’t she being watched” etc. ICU Nurses are very autonomous, and work alone. Often 1nurse:1patient or 1nurse:2patients. But despite having our own patients, it is not uncommon (if your patient is stable) to help other Nurses out. Ie running a blood gas for someone or administering medication for someone else. So she’s either a super helpful Nurse (which if she was a band 7, she would be in charge most of the time and helping her staff) and her name is on everything she helped with and that’s the reason she’s all over everything, or she is a super devious, calculating Nurse.

In Nursing, all IV medication is double checked and in paediatrics ALL types of medication is double checked. So to inject something like insulin into a bag of medication/fluid that 2 Nurses have prepared together, would take sneaking off with it somewhere. We have cameras in our medication room and in ICU you often draw up medication at the patient’s bed space (as you live in that one bed space for the shift and never leave the patient alone), so I’m definitely intrigued by this one!

As for the Facebook thing… I will be frowned upon for this, but I have definitely looked up a patient on Facebook. Often the family tell you of a charity they have set up in the patients name/to help with rehab, or you see their story on the local news, and it is nice to have 1 quick look to see how they are getting on post their traumatic, life altering accident. But NEVER interact. Or constantly search and search. So this is something I’m also interested in.

So yeah, hi. Will be following along very closely.

Thank you for this insight, really valuable! Especially interesting what to say about only being able to tamper with medicine if you took it away; but if someone is motivated enough could they possibly fly under the radar? Would you notice if someone was acting strangely if they did so with confidence rather than skulking around? I hope that makes sense what I’m asking!

I don’t know how NHS bands work but if it’s comparable to civil service, I assumed she was one away from the top pay rate in her band rather than a senior nurse? And if moving up the pay scales is based on length of service then she may have been the most senior/well paid nurse in her band on the department but working under nurses/sisters in a more senior role?

 

[Aberscot]

Sorry I thought it was the prosecution opening we are hearing then we hear defence before all the evidence and witnesses?
But I could be wrong

Weeks. Maybe even 2+ months I’m thinking!

 

[ChampagneBox]

Juries aren’t screened in England & Wales. Jurors just have to declare if they know any of the parties eg 2 jurors had to stand down in this trial as they knew barristers.

Oh okay so if it came out one was a parent of, say, a NICU baby, they wouldn’t be taken off due to not being able to be objective?