Jack Monroe #509 The Silence of the Scams.

stunrw · May 26, 2023

Livia Fantasy said:
What a phrase! I do love the smell of it - especially compared to two boys of 15 and 11 - but my only experience of it involved a freshly-waxed bikini line on holiday and I’ll tell you now, that took me SEVERAL pina colada to recover.

And the pool boy trying work out why you were telling him your fanny was on fire

StatusWoe · May 26, 2023

stunrw said:
This may only be relevant to people of a certain age, but a few of us from varying occupations were having a bitch the other day that everyone now is some sort of "label". Whether it's allergy, gender identity, politics that make Hitler look normal etc. There is something.

When I was a kid it was all fairly straight forward. You got on a jet you weren't told that someone was allergic to peanuts, oxygen and sunlight so you have to starve and sit in the dark for the whole flight. You didn't spend the entire day walking on eggshells in case you accidentally call someone by the wrong pronoun. Or you don't get coffee chucked at you because they overhear you say something that politically they don't like.

They were simpler times....

My reply to this might get long and it's not directly on topic so I'll spoiler it. *Potentially upsetting content WARNED*

I’m sure we have common ground in thinking that anyone who uses their labels/identities for attention or to evade criticism is a twat. And anyone who pretends to be part of a marginalised group is betraying people’s trust and doing a lot of damage to that community.

However, these ‘protected characteristics’ are more than just identifying with a subculture or something you try on like a fashion. They’re intrinsic to who you are. For example: I’m bisexual. I didn’t choose that label or seek out the identity – it’s simply the most accurate description of who I am already. The same would've been true had I been living in 1850. It’s really not a big deal!

For a lot of newly-diagnosed ADHD & autism folks, having these labels is hugely important because previously they’d never had the language to describe their experiences. These are people who’ve spent most of their lives, especially in school & work environments, being told that they are somehow ‘wrong’ and need to change to fit their surroundings. The growing body of medical/psychological knowledge adds to the overall understanding of these diagnoses, so that the environments can be adjusted to fit them for once. An accurate diagnosis should feel like a sigh of relief where you go ‘finally, that’s what this is called!’ So this is why I don’t think the labels themselves are trivial.

What you might see as an increase in (over)sensitivity or political correctness could be viewed as an increase in understanding and respect. Political correctness is concerned with politeness and avoiding offense, but imo the important concept is justice. It would be a mistake to call justice or respect 'political correctness'.

Take the examples you gave about pronouns and allergies: you’re thinking about your personal comfort on a flight. But a woman with a peanut allergy was left permanently brain damaged after a flight where peanuts were eaten. With pronouns, your concern is that you need to walk on eggshells to avoid causing offense. Meanwhile, earlier this year, a trans teenager was murdered by her classmates and then misgendered deliberately in the newspapers. The point I’m making is that the stakes are very different here – slight inconvenience vs. serious harm.

Unfortunately, these ‘simpler times’ were only simpler if you had the advantage of being a straight, white able-bodied man or someone in a position of relative privilege. Anyone else had to put up with varying degrees of discrimination, lack of awareness, inferior or inappropriate medical care, being denied jobs, lack of social support, being the punchline of jokes, and worse. Now these groups have a louder voice and can say 'hey, we've always been harmed by this and now you need to change' but there's a lot of resistance by individuals who've never had to notice how their behaviours and attitudes affected others. Having your needs catered to because you're considered by society to be 'default' and 'the average' is a luxury. It's also a luxury when you can go through life unaffected by issues that hinder so many demographics.

It can feel as though all these people with labels in their Twitter bios are coming out of nowhere to harass you, but there are a few factors to consider here:

-Increased public awareness
-Improvements in diagnosis and identification
-Reduced stigma

All these things lead to an increase in the number of people with a specific label - trans, autistic, whatever else. It doesn't mean there's bandwagon-jumping happening on a large scale.

Finally, campaigns centered around specific identities serve some important purposes:

-A way of organising for positive change, be that in attitudes, stigma reduction, better services or policy.
-Mutual aid and support. Mental illness and disability can be extremely isolating, so flags and symbols are a means of finding and connecting with like-minded people. In the past, there would have been loads of poor individuals sitting at home wondering wtf was the matter with them. Now they can go online and find their people.
-Pride. The idea behind pride events (and wider movements like BLM) isn't to revel in victimhood or to let one characteristic define your whole being. The point is empowerment, to make people feel supported and valued even when society at large doesn't treat them well.

*None of my trans friends will be offended if it’s a genuine mistake! They’re a friendly bunch and will probably just correct you and move on. @stunrw is marked safe from Big Linda.

I bet you need a drink after reading that, tendertrifles. Big apologies. Rant mode was activated. Won't happen again.

Ablemabel · May 26, 2023

StatusWoe said:
My reply to this might get long and it's not directly on topic so I'll spoiler it. *Potentially upsetting content WARNED*

I’m sure we have common ground in thinking that anyone who uses their labels/identities for attention or to evade criticism is a twat. And anyone who pretends to be part of a marginalised group is betraying people’s trust and doing a lot of damage to that community.

However, these ‘protected characteristics’ are more than just identifying with a subculture or something you try on like a fashion. They’re intrinsic to who you are. For example: I’m bisexual. I didn’t choose that label or seek out the identity – it’s simply the most accurate description of who I am already. The same would've been true had I been living in 1850. It’s really not a big deal!

For a lot of newly-diagnosed ADHD & autism folks, having these labels is hugely important because previously they’d never had the language to describe their experiences. These are people who’ve spent most of their lives, especially in school & work environments, being told that they are somehow ‘wrong’ and need to change to fit their surroundings. The growing body of medical/psychological knowledge adds to the overall understanding of these diagnoses, so that the environments can be adjusted to fit them for once. An accurate diagnosis should feel like a sigh of relief where you go ‘finally, that’s what this is called!’ So this is why I don’t think the labels themselves are trivial.

What you might see as an increase in (over)sensitivity or political correctness could be viewed as an increase in understanding and respect. Political correctness is concerned with politeness and avoiding offense, but imo the important concept is justice. It would be a mistake to call justice or respect 'political correctness'.

Take the examples you gave about pronouns and allergies: you’re thinking about your personal comfort on a flight. But a woman with a peanut allergy was left permanently brain damaged after a flight where peanuts were eaten. With pronouns, your concern is that you need to walk on eggshells to avoid causing offense. Meanwhile, earlier this year, a trans teenager was murdered by her classmates and then misgendered deliberately in the newspapers. The point I’m making is that the stakes are very different here – slight inconvenience vs. serious harm.

Unfortunately, these ‘simpler times’ were only simpler if you had the advantage of being a straight, white able-bodied man or someone in a position of relative privilege. Anyone else had to put up with varying degrees of discrimination, lack of awareness, inferior or inappropriate medical care, being denied jobs, lack of social support, being the punchline of jokes, and worse. Now these groups have a louder voice and can say 'hey, we've always been harmed by this and now you need to change' but there's a lot of resistance by individuals who've never had to notice how their behaviours and attitudes affected others. Having your needs catered to because you're considered by society to be 'default' and 'the average' is a luxury. It's also a luxury when you can go through life unaffected by issues that hinder so many demographics.

It can feel as though all these people with labels in their Twitter bios are coming out of nowhere to harass you, but there are a few factors to consider here:

-Increased public awareness
-Improvements in diagnosis and identification
-Reduced stigma

All these things lead to an increase in the number of people with a specific label - trans, autistic, whatever else. It doesn't mean there's bandwagon-jumping happening on a large scale.

Finally, campaigns centered around specific identities serve some important purposes:

-A way of organising for positive change, be that in attitudes, stigma reduction, better services or policy.
-Mutual aid and support. Mental illness and disability can be extremely isolating, so flags and symbols are a means of finding and connecting with like-minded people. In the past, there would have been loads of poor individuals sitting at home wondering wtf was the matter with them. Now they can go online and find their people.
-Pride. The idea behind pride events (and wider movements like BLM) isn't to revel in victimhood or to let one characteristic define your whole being. The point is empowerment, to make people feel supported and valued even when society at large doesn't treat them well.

*None of my trans friends will be offended if it’s a genuine mistake! They’re a friendly bunch and will probably just correct you and move on. @stunrw is marked safe from Big Linda.

I bet you need a drink after reading that, tendertrifles. Big apologies. Rant mode was activated. Won't happen again.

Foxvint · May 26, 2023

The QT appearance is a massive own goal. I think it'll be fairly nondescript, she fades into the background when the focus isn't all on her, I think the actual appearance will be a non event. But its a gift as a blow against the grift. QT mentions are going to go wild. I know that must be the case for other guests, like polarising politicians but this guest isn't that. She's got no mandate, she's got no show, no column. Media types will see that she's hated and the reasons why.

People-huv-tae-know · May 26, 2023

Jelly Bean said:
'Ratings get recommissions'.
Yes you really showed us guest.
Just like how you showed us with Daily Kitchen Live.

View attachment 2197523

(Thanks to dear heart OG @GrunkaLunka for screenie).

And Marms please don't stop with the throwbacks - always hilarious. She just never learns

Looks like we had the last laugh.

Beansbeans · May 26, 2023

stunrw said:
This may only be relevant to people of a certain age, but a few of us from varying occupations were having a bitch the other day that everyone now is some sort of "label". Whether it's allergy, gender identity, politics that make Hitler look normal etc. There is something.

When I was a kid it was all fairly straight forward. You got on a jet you weren't told that someone was allergic to peanuts, oxygen and sunlight so you have to starve and sit in the dark for the whole flight. You didn't spend the entire day walking on eggshells in case you accidentally call someone by the wrong pronoun. Or you don't get coffee chucked at you because they overhear you say something that politically they don't like.

They were simpler times....

I'm going to jump on the allergy thing. That's not being precious or wanting a label. And it's not a societal change but a medical one -there has been a huge rise in the severity and number of allergies. And you aren't going to starve if you miss out on peanuts on a flight. My kids both have multiple severe allergies and have had major reactions on contact with food (ie without eating). It's a shit hand to be dealt. I am not at all precious or helicoptery as a parent- they do all sorts of adventure sports etc- but for children with allergies food isn't benign, it's life or death.
---

HotesTilaire said:
@stunrw I respect your input here too, it’s unfortunate that you showed you have some unconscious bias, in writing on a forum. But if you know it’s there you can work on it (if you want)

My final word on this - person asking for so called “special” treatment due to their dis/ability, non/gender, sexuality etc to live their life a bit easier- snowflake, weak, needy

“Average person” refusing to make any concession, and going out of their way to carry on living their life as they always have, without change - not a snowflake, strong, capable

aka projection

Completely agree. My son ended up leaving scouts as they constant did activities he couldn't join in with (like a game 'throwing eggs" when he is anaphylactic to eggs. When I complained they said they didn't want the other scouts to miss out on a fun game and he needed to "be more resilient". So the onus on the child with allergies to be resilient about missing out, not the other children to adapt and accept a different activity

Katkat · May 26, 2023

Is it half term where she is next week? Hope she takes her son camping in the wilds of Leicester.

Seaford Haggington · May 26, 2023

Jelly Bean said:
'Ratings get recommissions'.
Yes you really showed us guest.
Just like how you showed us with Daily Kitchen Live.

View attachment 2197523

(Thanks to dear heart OG @GrunkaLunka for screenie).

And Marms please don't stop with the throwbacks - always hilarious. She just never learns

How many of the mavens of misery are Barb panel members? The only viewers that are actually counted. She's so stupid and lacking in knowledge it is excruciating.

HotesTilaire · May 26, 2023

Katkat said:
Is it half term where she is next week? Hope she takes her son camping in the wilds of Leicester.

Please please let her be escorted in a car. If she gets a train there’s a real chance of “pet cemetery rucksack/did you know things are cheap in ethnic shops” Jack manifesting. I can’t cope with her being amazed at the price of turmeric.

Captainmouse · May 26, 2023

HotesTilaire said:
Oh I’m so excited for a watchalong it’s been ages. And we’ve got lots of time to plan a Jack Bingo
- laughs maniacally
- picks nose/checks phone
- serious glasses
-pov jumper
- sarky sulky voice
- pre-planned “zinger” or ”soundbite”

Tiffany dupes

SusieTCones · May 26, 2023

StatusWoe said:
My reply to this might get long and it's not directly on topic so I'll spoiler it. *Potentially upsetting content WARNED*

I’m sure we have common ground in thinking that anyone who uses their labels/identities for attention or to evade criticism is a twat. And anyone who pretends to be part of a marginalised group is betraying people’s trust and doing a lot of damage to that community.

However, these ‘protected characteristics’ are more than just identifying with a subculture or something you try on like a fashion. They’re intrinsic to who you are. For example: I’m bisexual. I didn’t choose that label or seek out the identity – it’s simply the most accurate description of who I am already. The same would've been true had I been living in 1850. It’s really not a big deal!

For a lot of newly-diagnosed ADHD & autism folks, having these labels is hugely important because previously they’d never had the language to describe their experiences. These are people who’ve spent most of their lives, especially in school & work environments, being told that they are somehow ‘wrong’ and need to change to fit their surroundings. The growing body of medical/psychological knowledge adds to the overall understanding of these diagnoses, so that the environments can be adjusted to fit them for once. An accurate diagnosis should feel like a sigh of relief where you go ‘finally, that’s what this is called!’ So this is why I don’t think the labels themselves are trivial.

What you might see as an increase in (over)sensitivity or political correctness could be viewed as an increase in understanding and respect. Political correctness is concerned with politeness and avoiding offense, but imo the important concept is justice. It would be a mistake to call justice or respect 'political correctness'.

Take the examples you gave about pronouns and allergies: you’re thinking about your personal comfort on a flight. But a woman with a peanut allergy was left permanently brain damaged after a flight where peanuts were eaten. With pronouns, your concern is that you need to walk on eggshells to avoid causing offense. Meanwhile, earlier this year, a trans teenager was murdered by her classmates and then misgendered deliberately in the newspapers. The point I’m making is that the stakes are very different here – slight inconvenience vs. serious harm.

Unfortunately, these ‘simpler times’ were only simpler if you had the advantage of being a straight, white able-bodied man or someone in a position of relative privilege. Anyone else had to put up with varying degrees of discrimination, lack of awareness, inferior or inappropriate medical care, being denied jobs, lack of social support, being the punchline of jokes, and worse. Now these groups have a louder voice and can say 'hey, we've always been harmed by this and now you need to change' but there's a lot of resistance by individuals who've never had to notice how their behaviours and attitudes affected others. Having your needs catered to because you're considered by society to be 'default' and 'the average' is a luxury. It's also a luxury when you can go through life unaffected by issues that hinder so many demographics.

It can feel as though all these people with labels in their Twitter bios are coming out of nowhere to harass you, but there are a few factors to consider here:

-Increased public awareness
-Improvements in diagnosis and identification
-Reduced stigma

All these things lead to an increase in the number of people with a specific label - trans, autistic, whatever else. It doesn't mean there's bandwagon-jumping happening on a large scale.

Finally, campaigns centered around specific identities serve some important purposes:

-A way of organising for positive change, be that in attitudes, stigma reduction, better services or policy.
-Mutual aid and support. Mental illness and disability can be extremely isolating, so flags and symbols are a means of finding and connecting with like-minded people. In the past, there would have been loads of poor individuals sitting at home wondering wtf was the matter with them. Now they can go online and find their people.
-Pride. The idea behind pride events (and wider movements like BLM) isn't to revel in victimhood or to let one characteristic define your whole being. The point is empowerment, to make people feel supported and valued even when society at large doesn't treat them well.

*None of my trans friends will be offended if it’s a genuine mistake! They’re a friendly bunch and will probably just correct you and move on. @stunrw is marked safe from Big Linda.

I bet you need a drink after reading that, tendertrifles. Big apologies. Rant mode was activated. Won't happen again.

Beautifully and powerfully said. Thank you.

definitelynotvlad · May 26, 2023

Marmalade Atkins said:
I promise to stop doing this for a while after today, but...

This day in history...

2020

We were very excited because Jack was live streaming from the Mayo Palace for the very first time.
View attachment 2197374

She started late and didn't know what the fuck she was doing.
View attachment 2197384

Her signal was shit.
View attachment 2197390

She did weird stuff with her hair.
View attachment 2197392

As usual, we were were apx. 100% of her audience.
View attachment 2197395

Jack thought it went okay.
View attachment 2197411

And ratings get recommissions so...
View attachment 2197418

Yay!
View attachment 2197426

For a brief moment there I felt a bit sorry for guest, “views are views” knowing she was being watched by a load of ninnies laughing at her. But THEN I remembered she’s a horrible terrible awful person, so I stopped feeling sorry for her.
Please don’t discontinue the on this day series @Marmalade Atkins it’s great! Shows what a wild ride it’s been the last 3 years.

Geetbo · May 26, 2023

ForgettyBetty said:
PSA: minty condoms = just don't

Tingly lube = not suitable for bumming.

definitelynotvlad · May 26, 2023

Celeste90 said:
My OH LEFT but came back with a new kettle. Will I say 'why you sob, Russell hobb' softly, gently to myself every time I go in the kitchen?

Yes, absolutely x

Ps don't try to me by my pink kitchen. WARNED

View attachment 2197496

Edit for

I only realised yesterday that my microwave is Russell Hobb. Why I sob? No see Russell Hobb.

HotesTilaire · May 26, 2023

Geetbo said:
Tingly lube = not suitable for bumming.

What is it suitable for?

Geetbo · May 26, 2023

HotesTilaire said:
What is it suitable for?

Setting your ringpiece on fire in my experience.

lilykestrel · May 26, 2023

HotesTilaire said:
Please please let her be escorted in a car. If she gets a train there’s a real chance of “pet cemetery rucksack/did you know things are cheap in ethnic shops” Jack manifesting. I can’t cope with her being amazed at the price of turmeric.

"my bag is full of 24 multipacks from the Walkers factory!!! the evening watchman looked me up and down and waved me in, thanking me for all that I do, and let me take as many bags as I could fit in my teeny tiny rucksack, and it was a lot! moving 70 times in 10 years has taught me how to cram things into a bag!"

Captainmouse · May 26, 2023

BubbleDuck said:
I’m too slow but
View attachment 2197201

Chapeau tenderstem

CrackingOwlSanctuary · May 26, 2023

HotesTilaire said:
Why is goodwill rationed? Just ban Jack. Jacks the problem.
see also - fake SA allegations.

You're absolutely right, good will shouldn't be rationed but as we know from the users on here many people become very wary of supporting anyone once they get a peek behind the bungamansion curtain, which has a net negative effect on the people who actually deserve the good will Jack feeds on. In my opinion, anyway.

Maybe she'll claim after QT she did something really wacky despite evidence to the contrary, like when she said she threw a pencil case at Kelvin Mackenzie's head and shouted 'Justice for the 96!*' during a panel despite there being no evidence.

*the correct figure at the time.

bracrumbs · May 26, 2023

I can’t talk for much but I did randomly develop life threatening allergies at a, er, later stage of life. Let me tell you, anaphylaxis is way less fun that you think it’s going to be. Mine involved the cliche swelling etc but then bonus projectile vomiting and then stomach cramps for hours that were so intense I started to bleed. It was worse than child birth.

Anyhoo, one of my allergies is actually tomatoes. I have my epi pens with me at all times.

and Jack’s hey ho my epi pens are in a Sainsbury’s bag far away bollocks is hugely irritating. My random allergies already have people going “sure jan.gif” at me without her LOLZANAPHYLAXISAMIRIGHT approach to talking about it.

she discredits the rest of us when the fight is hard enough. And I’m only talking about food, not something so completely intrinsic to who I am like gender or sexuality. So I don’t necessarily think I agree in a “everyone needs a label” way but certainly in “unfortunately in pushing for a more accepting and kinder society we Leave slack for charlatans and frauds to take advantage of that but it’s probably better than people dying cos Seat 31b wants some honey roasted” way.

Jack Monroe #509 The Silence of the Scams.

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