J. K. Rowling #3 JK and the Prisoner of Gender Stereotypes

[Lanavalentine]

An observation - whenever we get the odd poster like this, they charge in throwing accusations of us being awful vile transphobes everywhere. Nobody rises to it. As they post more, the vitriol tends to get worse. And still, nobody rises to it and everyone's civil until it's really obvious we're all wasting our time. But...they're abusive to us from the start, and we're just meant to lie down and take it? I think that in itself is another form of misogyny tbh. I'm not criticising anyone for being polite by the way, I just think it's interesting that for some reason we are expected to put up with this and not to rise to it and they can say whatever they like from the get go and that's fine.

I immediately assume people like this are women haters from the off now. Anyone who thinks there's no clash of rights going on - misogynist. Anyone who tells me to jUsT ReAd tHe EssAy and but but but but the internet says Rowling is a transphobe so it must be true - misogynist. Of course telling those people they're women haters is never received as well as us being told we're TERFs all the time, but that's another story. They can dish it but they can't take it.

Yep, and I think often there is an ageist element to it also, because there seems to be a strong idea amongst transgender ideology that all “TERFs” are always 60+, white, straight, conservative mothers from rich backgrounds.

In my experience the only one of those that is anywhere near correct is that the majority of gender critical and rad fems are white (although that’s not to say there aren’t a lot of Black women and other woc involved too, because there is).

 

[Zenchick101]

Yep, and I think often there is an ageist element to it also, because there seems to be a strong idea amongst transgender ideology that all “TERFs” are always 60+, white, straight, conservative mothers from rich backgrounds.

In my experience the only one of those that is anywhere near correct is that the majority of gender critical and rad fems are white (although that’s not to say there aren’t a lot of Black women and other woc involved too, because there is).

yes i love being called a white supremicist, lololol or being told my ancestors were dumb dumbs who didn't understand the concept of sex

edit to add woke racism is nothing new, but i digress.

 

[Vanillaco]

Yep, and I think often there is an ageist element to it also, because there seems to be a strong idea amongst transgender ideology that all “TERFs” are always 60+, white, straight, conservative mothers from rich backgrounds.

In my experience the only one of those that is anywhere near correct is that the majority of gender critical and rad fems are white (although that’s not to say there aren’t a lot of Black women and other woc involved too, because there is).

Ironic when poor women, and WOC who have to flee domestic abuse will be dismissed in favour of a group of people who are in the majority, middle aged white men.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Yep, and I think often there is an ageist element to it also, because there seems to be a strong idea amongst transgender ideology that all “TERFs” are always 60+, white, straight, conservative mothers from rich backgrounds.

In my experience the only one of those that is anywhere near correct is that the majority of gender critical and rad fems are white (although that’s not to say there aren’t a lot of Black women and other woc involved too, because there is).

Definitely agree. I follow some black radfems on Twitter and the abuse they get compared to white radfems is IMMENSE. I don't know how they do it tbh.

 

[2020two]

I've probably discussed the JKR/trans issue with 20-30 people at this point - including friends (+ a trans friend), colleagues, family and even on dates () and every single person has discussed it rationally and calmly and ultimately agreed JK isn't a transphobe and everyone agrees with her. Funnily enough the only person I know personally who's on the duck JK bandwagon is an Instagram "influencer" who goes on and on about JK being a transphobe without any evidence. I think people online are just joining in without really doing any research because of peer pressure/they don't want to be labelled as a transphobe - including the lady today who's determined to persuade us JK is a transphobe yet not being willing to show any evidence. It's easier to be a "sheep" and follow the crowd than to think critically and form your own opinion.

 

[judgejohndeed]

It's easier to be a "sheep" and follow the crowd than to think critically and form your own opinion.

it's bizarre being called sheep by people who are happy to jump in and participate in what is an abusive, sexually violent pile on of an influential female. If that's what your side is doing, why is that your side? The cognitive dissonance is real. Germaine Greer hit the nail on the head with the whole 'women have little idea how much men hate them' thing.

 

[2020two]

it's bizarre being called sheep by people who are happy to jump in and participate in what is an abusive, sexually violent pile on of an influential female. If that's what your side is doing, why is that your side? The cognitive dissonance is real. Germaine Greer hit the nail on the head with the whole 'women have little idea how much men hate them' thing.

I think I'm possibly reading your message wrong (apologies, I'm tired!) But are you speaking theoretically to the trans activists or to me? Just to be clear I absolutely adore JK and was referring to JK haters as sheep.

 

[judgejohndeed]

I think I'm possibly reading your message wrong (apologies, I'm tired!) But are you speaking theoretically to the trans activists or to me? Just to be clear I absolutely adore JK and was referring to JK haters as sheep.

No I know don't worry! Was just agreeing
Edit - sorry I see what you mean now, I made the jump in my head that they also call us sheep and accuse us of not thinking about what Rowling has said etc but didn't actually include that in my post. I'm also really tired. Thank god it's Friday huh!

 

[emmer_moans]

or are you just parroting views you’ve read on social media?

This, this, this. When people accuse us of being transphobic, or JKR of being transphobic, it is because they interpret OTHER PEOPLES’ words on Twitter, from peoples own summaries of JKR’s supposed wrongthought, they reinforce, retweet misquotes and others’ opinions as gospel versions of JKR’s views. However when you ACTUALLY go back to the source text - her own essay in her own words - there is nothing transphobic of the sort. People attach their own words, feelings and agendas to things and even trick themselves into thinking that’s what someone supposedly said. A LOT of people on twitter are sheep and will parrot their friend’s interpretations but I bet not many have actually combed through JKR’s essay. No, they will have retweeted rehashed tweets of tweets of retweets. It’s a frenzy. Is it possible to disagree with JKR? Of course, we all have our views, but at least quote her actual words to bring it to the discussion.

 

[CheshireLove]

To say with such certainty that J.K Rowling is a TERF, they must have read her essays. As we all have.

So why is it so difficult to go to the essay, bookmark what you don't agree with and then present an argument as to why you think J.K Rowling is so wrong/transphobic/a TERF?

Apparently it is too big of an ask that someone substantiate their claims by providing evidence from a easily accessible source that we are familiar with.

I'm very open to hearing the 'other side' as it were. I think we are all very open to having a geniune discussion.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

imagine if christopher columbus told the reigning monarchs of Spain that he had discovered north america the same way we're supposed to believe JKR is a transphobe. "it exists I swear!!" "you're just idiots" "go look yourselves"

I was on the school debating team. When it came to arguing my motion, I just got up, took to the podium and said "figure it out yourselves" before dropping the mic and exiting the stage

 

[Enigmata]

Just wondering why TERF is such a negative term. Not sure I am a 'radical' feminist but I think women are women and men are men!!!!!

Totally shocking, I know. I have no problem supporting anyone who wishes to identify as the opposite gender. I will respect their pronouns.

However, I am a woman and wish to protect our hard won rights. I can see them being torn away with nonsense such as people with cervixes etc!!!

I say 'Well Done JKR'. I read the essay and nodded all the way through. I didn't see anything transphobic, just a lot of common sense.

 

[SoulRebel]

It’s impossible to convince anyone who has decided to stubbornly refuse to acknowledge JKR’s transphobia what is clear for many people to see and to be honest a bit of a waste of energy to even try to do so.

The only people who blindly follow and defend a bigot are other bigots

I think that you may have arrived here via a weird Google search but there's another thread that may interest you called #Gender Discussions under the Off Topic heading. See how you get on and report back.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Just wondering why TERF is such a negative term. Not sure I am a 'radical' feminist but I think women are women and men are men!!!!!

It’s only become negative because of the way it’s used as a slur. TRAs often tell us it’s not a slur and it’s just what we are - but trans exclusionary radical feminism doesn’t really make sense as a concept. Most key radical feminist thinkers I can think of off the top of my head include trans men in their feminism precisely because they are biologically women. So when they call us TERFs what they’re really whinging about is that we include only the wrong ‘type’ of trans - aka bio women - and excluding men. Then they get pissy when you say it’s men’s rights activism

 

[Misbehaving]

To say with such certainty that J.K Rowling is a TERF, they must have read her essays. As we all have.

So why is it so difficult to go to the essay, bookmark what you don't agree with and then present an argument as to why you think J.K Rowling is so wrong/transphobic/a TERF?

Apparently it is too big of an ask that someone substantiate their claims by providing evidence from a easily accessible source that we are familiar with.

I'm very open to hearing the 'other side' as it were. I think we are all very open to having a geniune discussion.

According to the conversation website (which is a network of not for profit media outlets that publishes news stories written by academics and researchers) it was the tweet she sent with #StandWithMaya#ThisIsNotADrill which had j.k rowling widely labelled a TERF.
So because maya forstater tweeted that a transgender women cannot change her biological sex she lost her job because her views were deemed absolutist. She was also against self id apologies for going over this again but my point is that as has been said on tattle life before j.k rowling is guilty by association (probably because maya lost her case lets be honest) so being gender critical can lose you your job now.Way to silence the critics! Oppose self id have a different opinion you will get punished for it but this story should not be left to die.This is a test case and is setting a frankly alarming precedent which others will follow.
Maya is now taking her case to an employment tribunal (having to use crowdsurfing in order to do so i will be making a contribution towards that as others have already).She wants to see gender critical beliefs protected under the equality act of 2010.God good luck to her is all i say... When i started this post i was vexed by the allegation that j.k rowling was a terf and a transphobe i tried to see the things the way her critics do (to try to understand) instead the only evidence i found was the proof of what a brave and principled human being she is.
Are you telling me she didn't know the precarious position she would be in when maya lost the case? Or that a minority of very vocal extremists would make her life hell in the aftermath? Of course she did but she did it anyway because as a writer freedom of speech and the ability to think critically are paramount.Whatever anyone thinks about j.k rowling or maya forstater this issue is no longer about them but about safeguarding our rights as individuals.
Its the oldest trick in the book to demonise your opponent (especially if they are women) so that no one takes them seriously and invalidates any legitimate criticism they have and the law just steps in to finish off the process.So the way things are going we won't be able to debate anything first its terf then its transphobe create a climate of fear (lose your job become a victim yourself of hate crime) watch as the people around become scared and very few will have the courage to speak out i find it very disturbing a real life witch hunt that could happen to any of us...
I don't know about you but i don't mind if i am being repetitive in bringing attention again to this matter because its not going to go away is it? We are going to have to fight to protect our critical independence of thought and its scary how quickly this is escalating.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Are you telling me she didn't know the precarious position she would be in when maya lost the case? Or that a minority of very vocal extremists would make her life hell in the aftermath? Of course she did but she did it anyway because as a writer freedom of speech and the ability to think critically are paramount.Whatever anyone thinks about j.k rowling or maya forstater this issue is no longer about them but about safeguarding our rights as individuals.

I agree and think we all need to be extremely grateful to JK Rowling. As a result of her being able to draw attention to this issue on a huge scale because of her influence, self ID has been taken off the table. I genuinely believe had she not become involved, they would’ve implemented self ID. And if I were her right now I would genuinely be scared to leave the house - the #RIPJKRowling thing trending on Twitter, the TRAs tweeting that they would rape her or kill her in their droves. People say she’s brave to endure the social media abuse etc or that she can’t be cancelled because of who she is but it’s more than that - yeah she can’t lose her job, but she has seriously compromised her general safety to push this issue. As we’ve seen with the cowardly Harry Potter cast there are very few people willing to do that.

 

[emmer_moans]

According to the conversation website (which is a network of not for profit media outlets that publishes news stories written by academics and researchers) it was the tweet she sent with #StandWithMaya#ThisIsNotADrill which had j.k rowling widely labelled a TERF.
So because maya forstater tweeted that a transgender women cannot change her biological sex she lost her job because her views were deemed absolutist. She was also against self id apologies for going over this again but my point is that as has been said on tattle life before j.k rowling is guilty by association (probably because maya lost her case lets be honest) so being gender critical can lose you your job now.Way to silence the critics! Oppose self id have a different opinion you will get punished for it but this story should not be left to die.This is a test case and is setting a frankly alarming precedent which others will follow.
Maya is now taking her case to an employment tribunal (having to use crowdsurfing in order to do so i will be making a contribution towards that as others have already).She wants to see gender critical beliefs protected under the equality act of 2010.God good luck to her is all i say... When i started this post i was vexed by the allegation that j.k rowling was a terf and a transphobe i tried to see the things the way her critics do (to try to understand) instead the only evidence i found was the proof of what a brave and principled human being she is.
Are you telling me she didn't know the precarious position she would be in when maya lost the case? Or that a minority of very vocal extremists would make her life hell in the aftermath? Of course she did but she did it anyway because as a writer freedom of speech and the ability to think critically are paramount.Whatever anyone thinks about j.k rowling or maya forstater this issue is no longer about them but about safeguarding our rights as individuals.
Its the oldest trick in the book to demonise your opponent (especially if they are women) so that no one takes them seriously and invalidates any legitimate criticism they have and the law just steps in to finish off the process.So the way things are going we won't be able to debate anything first its terf then its transphobe create a climate of fear (lose your job become a victim yourself of hate crime) watch as the people around become scared and very few will have the courage to speak out i find it very disturbing a real life witch hunt that could happen to any of us...
I don't know about you but i don't mind if i am being repetitive in bringing attention again to this matter because its not going to go away is it? We are going to have to fight to protect our critical independence of thought and its scary how quickly this is escalating.

It's scary. I cannot voice my gender critical opinion or speak up for womens rights because I work in a setting that would sack me for it.

 

[Lanavalentine]

Just wondering why TERF is such a negative term. Not sure I am a 'radical' feminist but I think women are women and men are men!!!!!

Totally shocking, I know. I have no problem supporting anyone who wishes to identify as the opposite gender. I will respect their pronouns.

However, I am a woman and wish to protect our hard won rights. I can see them being torn away with nonsense such as people with cervixes etc!!!

I say 'Well Done JKR'. I read the essay and nodded all the way through. I didn't see anything transphobic, just a lot of common sense.

Just a note to say that radical feminism is often misunderstood - it doesn’t mean radical as in “radicalisation”, aka extreme and violent views.

Radical as used in the definition of radical feminism means root cause, because women who follow radical feminism believe that the root cause of oppression of women is their female biology.

I just want to clear that up for anyone who might be confused, as it’s a common misconception and is often weaponised by transgender ideologists, where they claim Mumsnet is a “radicalisation portal” and that radical feminism believes in violent methods.

 

[SoulRebel]

It's scary. I cannot voice my gender critical opinion or speak up for womens rights because I work in a setting that would sack me for it.

This is awful, what sector do you work in?

 

[Milliemoo99]

The straight cis men at a corporate gym helped save my trans soul

I was afraid of the cis men at my new luxurious gym. But as it turned out, I needed them

www.theguardian.com

This is an interesting article.... about someone who is in the process of becoming trans, moving from originally someone born female to a man.

They are living with a man, and percieve themselves as gay because they are a trans man, who sadly still has their vagina and his boyfriend. Im happy he is happy with his life, but dictionary words and definitions get extremely confusing!