Israeli - Palestinian Conflict #16

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Edit: Late night reading means I read your apostrophe in the wrong place, and I acknowledge this was not your meaning. I'll leave the post as is otherwise, as I still believe the point, but I fully recognise this was not your intention.

Something I want to point out here, that I think goes to part of why antisemitism is seeing a rise from all this - the Israeli government are not the government of Jewish people outside of Israel. They claim to represent the Jewish diaspora, and certainly love to claim that any resistance to or pushback on the actions of Israel is antisemitism, but they simply do not.
They are the government of Israel. They are becoming increasingly more authoritarian and enforcing the country as an ethnostate more and more with it, but that will never mean that they represent all Jews.

No Jewish citizen of another country should be attacked in the name of Israel, and nor should they place a higher value or lower expectation of adherence to international law on Israel.

A country being an ethnostate of someone's given ethnicity or ethnoreligious group does not mean that country represents them.
I know Muslims are still paying a heavy price for past wars the difference being that the media is allowed to be islamaphobic to an extent for example pro Hamas hate marches when people were protesting the war.
The problem is a lot of people believe the daily mail as fact or maybe this type of trash reporting appeals to people that have a racist mindset it’s the chicken and the egg revisited 🤣
 
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Genuinely most people don’t give a fk about Jews or Jewishness except Jews, the same can be said for most religions, religion is a club that you buy into and anyone with any sense sees that.

Jewish people can’t just go to a march to oppose a genocide they have to cut themselves open and say “look I’m Jewish and I don’t agree with genocide either” Israel and world Zionists are the ones making this about Jews and the people who are having to hold their hands up and say “whooaaa not in my name” are the Jews. Other than the ugly rhetoric thrown our way (terrorist/terrorist sympathisers etc) none Jews can say, without reference to their religion/race/club “I don’t agree with this because I’m a human and this is not right” Jews are the ones who have to justify themselves because of Israel, so so many don’t want to be associated with the psychopaths in Israel or America, they don’t want to be associated with far right racists and don’t in anyway see their religion in the eyes of the hateful bigots who try to use them for cover. Stop trying to make this about Jews it’s not.
 
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Can anyone share with me me any sources about Hamas being founded / funded by Israel please? I
 
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Can anyone share with me me any sources about Hamas being founded / funded by Israel please? I
Israel didn't directly funded Hamas but allowed and even helped for money transfers to Hamas from abroad (mostly from Qatar). It was to prevent unity between the Gaza strip and the West Bank - which could have led to the creation of a palestinian state.
A good article about it: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
 
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Wow just wow! This lad doesn’t miss a beat. How incredibly brave and articulate. I’m in awe of these students they have so much to lose and they are standing strong on this principle and it warms my heart to think the future is in their hands and it’s likely to be safe(r).
 
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Wow just wow! This lad doesn’t miss a beat. How incredibly brave and articulate. I’m in awe of these students they have so much to lose and they are standing strong on this principle and it warms my heart to think the future is in their hands and it’s likely to be safe(r).
Wow 🩷
 
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I dont get why that would even be a problem? Its part of the conflict, the rise in antisemitism is a direct consequence of the conflict there.

Thousands, possibly millions, of Jews disagree with you. But how can some perceived hurty feelings in Manchester have any bearing on what’s occurring in the Middle East? Pretty sure a fellow zio of yours asked why discuss the merits of the Labour as they can’t get a ceasefire? I mean fkng hell if the opposition party, who are said to become the next government of the UK, can’t be discussed in this context then I’m damn sure some videos of, who knows what, with someone allegedly being antisemitic in a park in Manchester, in the midst of discussions about ACTUAL real images of ethnic cleansing and genocide, can get in the bin.

Outside of Palestine itself there have been people killed because they are Palestinian, there have been people shot at resulting in life changing injuries because they were Palestinian, there have been people who have lost their jobs, been cancelled because of their pro Palestinian views, there are currently students being dragged, beaten and physically assaulted by police and Zionists for peacefully demonstrating and asking for a ceasefire. Proportionally matters to most but obviously not anyone who supports Israel because we know that 800 civilians killed - many at their own hands - means that 40,000 + Palestinian deaths is not enough, starving 2 million Palestinians is not enough, orphaning 20000 Palestinian children is not enough, injuring 100,000 Palestinians is not enough, destroying the home and infrastructure of over 2 million Palestinians is not enough- we know that enough will be when all of Palestine is occupied by Israel and all Palestinians are erased from their land.
You think I'm a Zionist for making an observation on antisemitism? Ha. Lol. I am not sure what the 'thousands of Jews would disagree with you' comment means, but I'm an atheist, and British born person with Iranian ancestry. Some of my family are Muslim, some are Christian, none are Jewish.

If you cant see the link between the rise of incidents religious intolerance (both antisemitism and Islamaphobia) documented on social media as a direct consequence of current global events documented on social media then I have a solid gold book on media literacy to sell to you.

And just because heinous things are being carried out by the Israeli govt, doesn't mean I'm going to stop finding Jew-hate vile. It is.
 
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You think I'm a Zionist for making an observation on antisemitism? Ha. Lol. I am not sure what the 'thousands of Jews would disagree with you' comment means, but I'm an atheist, and British born person with Iranian ancestry. Some of my family are Muslim, some are Christian, none are Jewish.

If you cant see the link between the rise of incidents religious intolerance (both antisemitism and Islamaphobia) documented on social media as a direct consequence of current global events documented on social media then I have a solid gold book on media literacy to sell to you.

And just because heinous things are being carried out by the Israeli govt, doesn't mean I'm going to stop finding Jew-hate vile. It is.
The hate being directed at people on both sides is vile. The finger needs to be pointed at the extremists on both sides who are responsible for the death and destruction carried out in the name of their respective ideologies. It is sad to see how the polarisation has increased and hate increase towards ordinary peace loving people on either side and neutrals too. All too often, if you take a neutral position, you get labelled either an antisemite or an Islamophobe!
The whole Zionist thing has become warped too. As I understand it a Zionist is a person who believes that Israel has a right to exist. Don’t they? We probably need to find another label for those who want to remove the Palestinians so that we know exactly who we are talking about.
I’d like to think that everybody on this thread would like to see a peaceful solution found that suits everyone and for the Israelis and Palestinians to be able to live safely within agreed borders.
 
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The hate being directed at people on both sides is vile. The finger needs to be pointed at the extremists on both sides who are responsible for the death and destruction carried out in the name of their respective ideologies. It is sad to see how the polarisation has increased and hate increase towards ordinary peace loving people on either side and neutrals too. All too often, if you take a neutral position, you get labelled either an antisemite or an Islamophobe!
The whole Zionist thing has become warped too. As I understand it a Zionist is a person who believes that Israel has a right to exist. Don’t they? We probably need to find another label for those who want to remove the Palestinians so that we know exactly who we are talking about.
I’d like to think that everybody on this thread would like to see a peaceful solution found that suits everyone and for the Israelis and Palestinians to be able to live safely within agreed borders.
Totally agree. It’s beginning to turn into a meaningless word.

I’m on the side of the innocent citizen.

some good news
Battles in east Rafah as Israel reopens key Kerem Shalom aid crossing https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68975398
 
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The hate being directed at people on both sides is vile. The finger needs to be pointed at the extremists on both sides who are responsible for the death and destruction carried out in the name of their respective ideologies. It is sad to see how the polarisation has increased and hate increase towards ordinary peace loving people on either side and neutrals too. All too often, if you take a neutral position, you get labelled either an antisemite or an Islamophobe!
The whole Zionist thing has become warped too. As I understand it a Zionist is a person who believes that Israel has a right to exist. Don’t they? We probably need to find another label for those who want to remove the Palestinians so that we know exactly who we are talking about.
I’d like to think that everybody on this thread would like to see a peaceful solution found that suits everyone and for the Israelis and Palestinians to be able to live safely within agreed borders.
Do they? Does a place like Israel need to exist in this world? Somewhere that thinks dropping 2000lb bombs on an enclosed and trapped area for months and months on end, killing hundreds of thousands of children in the name of 'self defence' - does it really need to exist? Not in my mind.
 
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Zionism is a settler colonial mindset which leads to this sort of behaviour. It is an ideology that is not compatible with any sort of solution that gives Palestinians self determination.

 
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You think I'm a Zionist for making an observation on antisemitism? Ha. Lol. I am not sure what the 'thousands of Jews would disagree with you' comment means, but I'm an atheist, and British born person with Iranian ancestry. Some of my family are Muslim, some are Christian, none are Jewish.

If you cant see the link between the rise of incidents religious intolerance (both antisemitism and Islamaphobia) documented on social media as a direct consequence of current global events documented on social media then I have a solid gold book on media literacy to sell to you.

And just because heinous things are being carried out by the Israeli govt, doesn't mean I'm going to stop finding Jew-hate vile. It is.
you don’t have to be a Jew to be a Zionist- many crazy Christians are Zionists, many atheists are, Zionism isn’t a religion you see. I’m sorry if I misrepresent your allegiance to a cause, it’s just that you talk like a Zionist 🤷‍♀️ Thousands of Jews disagree that the Israelis enacting a genocide has been the reason for an increase in antisemitism, many of them dispute that allegation, you’ll see those Jews out at marches every week.

oh so now you’re mentioning Islamaphobia??? Well that would have been a useful play on your earlier posts but nobody brings these “social media” crimes of Islamophobia on to here to support…a genocide. But regardless of that I’ll take your book, golds a great investment atm!

Well done 👏 for not liking bigotry, now if you need to discuss that further there’s a whole thread, that someone, I think it was the lovely @avabella, from here made, for you to go and share antisemitic social media clips. This thread is about Israel and Palestine and your petty takes, about an anonymous playground clip which show absolutely nothing, to try to silence someone on here is rude! We are done with that level of derailing, take it to the antisemitism thread.

And right on cue Moley arrives with her both sides take but meh 🫤

No I don’t believe Israel should exist - it was a colony it wasn’t a safe homeland for Jews from Europe, Europe should be a safe homeland for jews from Europe. It clearly isn’t a safe homeland for Jews and never will be, if the last 75 years is anything to go by. No need to steal other peoples land and then demand a right to exist. So I’m clear on what Zionists are and they are very similar to Nazi who I also find abhorrent - right wing extremists all the same!
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So those delightful “settlers” who believe that Israel, and anything else they deem Israel, has a right to exist are trying to storm UNWRA headquarters in Jerusalem- I guess these are just the extremists 🤷‍♀️


Just a nice reminder of exactly why UNWRA exists


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Here are some more of those extremists…the IDF…is national military service mandatory for everyone over 18 in Israel, anyone? (Obviously not the non extremists)


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And just cos I’m on a roll this beautiful thing came to me from some beautiful Jews who aren’t watching the massacre and screaming ANTISEMITISM

 
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Totally agree. It’s beginning to turn into a meaningless word.

I’m on the side of the innocent citizen.

some good news
Battles in east Rafah as Israel reopens key Kerem Shalom aid crossing https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68975398
It is becoming a useless word to non jews, it’s like oh that card again for decades the world had sympathy for the Jewish people because of all they had suffered during the holocaust but the blatant misuse of the term antisemite and the hounding of anyone that disagrees with Israeli policy is wrong because most people just don’t want to see any more women and kids blown up or starved and that’s it.
The problem is that they want to turn this Genocide into a religious war and to turn people against each other because that’s extremely weakening and their worst nightmare is for the world to stand as one in opposing this war.
This war is about land and the need to take it all and religion has nothing to do with it if the Palestinians were Hindu the same scenario would happen.
 
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Zionism is a settler colonial mindset which leads to this sort of behaviour. It is an ideology that is not compatible with any sort of solution that gives Palestinians self determination.

What in the ever loving world is wrong with these people? How do you become so filled with such hatred? I don't understand. That bit of my brain is missing.

But then I grew up (as Catholic in Belfast) in a home that despite the Troubles (and we had bombs and shootings very close to my home) never taught me hate, never showed me how to grow up with a chip on my shoulder and with parents who if they saw me behaving as those people are would give out to me no end.
 
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you don’t have to be a Jew to be a Zionist- many crazy Christians are Zionists, many atheists are, Zionism isn’t a religion you see. I’m sorry if I misrepresent your allegiance to a cause, it’s just that you talk like a Zionist 🤷‍♀️ Thousands of Jews disagree that the Israelis enacting a genocide has been the reason for an increase in antisemitism, many of them dispute that allegation, you’ll see those Jews out at marches every week
I'd say most Jews I've met protesting this have said they've dealt with increased antisemitism during this genocide, none of them have seen that as any deterrent or relation to protesting this with all their hearts.
Like many minorities they're used to racists incorporating new justifications for their racism, and don't see any conflict between opposing that and the Palestinian genocide.

Day to day have bumped into a lot using any spec of awareness of this just as a chance to spew equal hate towards Muslims and Jews ☹

Merail but I met a wanker (just generally as a person, not related to this) on a march who was proud of some ancestors I think could have ethnically cleansed my ancestors, was kind of darkly amused that we were united on this in the present day.
 
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you don’t have to be a Jew to be a Zionist- many crazy Christians are Zionists, many atheists are, Zionism isn’t a religion you see. I’m sorry if I misrepresent your allegiance to a cause, it’s just that you talk like a Zionist 🤷‍♀️ Thousands of Jews disagree that the Israelis enacting a genocide has been the reason for an increase in antisemitism, many of them dispute that allegation, you’ll see those Jews out at marches every week.

oh so now you’re mentioning Islamaphobia??? Well that would have been a useful play on your earlier posts but nobody brings these “social media” crimes of Islamophobia on to here to support…a genocide. But regardless of that I’ll take your book, golds a great investment atm!

Well done 👏 for not liking bigotry, now if you need to discuss that further there’s a whole thread, that someone, I think it was the lovely @avabella, from here made, for you to go and share antisemitic social media clips. This thread is about Israel and Palestine and your petty takes, about an anonymous playground clip which show absolutely nothing, to try to silence someone on here is rude! We are done with that level of derailing, take it to the antisemitism thread.

And right on cue Moley arrives with her both sides take but meh 🫤

No I don’t believe Israel should exist - it was a colony it wasn’t a safe homeland for Jews from Europe, Europe should be a safe homeland for jews from Europe. It clearly isn’t a safe homeland for Jews and never will be, if the last 75 years is anything to go by. No need to steal other peoples land and then demand a right to exist. So I’m clear on what Zionists are and they are very similar to Nazi who I also find abhorrent - right wing extremists all the same!
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So those delightful “settlers” who believe that Israel, and anything else they deem Israel, has a right to exist are trying to storm UNWRA headquarters in Jerusalem- I guess these are just the extremists 🤷‍♀️


Just a nice reminder of exactly why UNWRA exists


---
Here are some more of those extremists…the IDF…is national military service mandatory for everyone over 18 in Israel, anyone? (Obviously not the non extremists)


---
And just cos I’m on a roll this beautiful thing came to me from some beautiful Jews who aren’t watching the massacre and screaming ANTISEMITISM

This is an utterly brilliant post. Everyone should read each one watch each video. Explains so much on a straightforward, simple level.
 
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",No offense but nobody gives a 💩
Your are the one who is taking offence where none was intended towards you,pet. What age are you?!

What a stupid response from a stupid tit (your word)such as yourself
I guarantee you don't know anything especially about geopolitics,hence your unitelligent responses.
No gives a tit about you and your bad mannered and bizarre responses, but this thread is not meant to be an echo chamber. Get over it

Why I responded here in the first place is because I believe the Israeli government response to be majorly disproportionate.

There is nothing "wrong" with anything I commented here.

"No offense but no nobody gives a tit" you're not a spokesperson for anyone that wants to read and/ or comment here 😆😆😆

This thread would have been a good thread were it not for the bizarre personal and rude responses.

If one did not want discussion about the relevant wider politics in addition to the genocide, then it shouldn't have been called the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
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",No offense but nobody gives a 💩
Your are the one who is taking offence where none was intended towards you,pet. What age are you?!

What a stupid response from a stupid tit (your word)such as yourself
I guarantee you don't know anything especially about geopolitics,hence your unitelligent responses.
No gives a tit about you and your bad mannered and bizarre responses, but this thread is not meant to be an echo chamber. Get over it

Why I responded here in the first place is because I believe the Israeli government response to be majorly disproportionate.

There is nothing "wrong" with anything I commented here.

"No offense but no nobody gives a tit" you're not a spokesperson for anyone that wants to read and/ or comment here 😆😆😆

This thread would have been a good thread were it not for the bizarre personal and rude responses.

If one did not want discussion about the relevant wider politics in addition to the genocide, then it shouldn't have been called the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
 
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Your are the one who is taking offence where none was intended towards you,pet. What age are you?!

What a stupid response from a stupid tit (your word)such as yourself
I guarantee you don't know anything especially about geopolitics,hence your unitelligent responses.
No gives a tit about you and your bad mannered and bizarre responses, but this thread is not meant to be an echo chamber. Get over it

Why I responded here in the first place is because I believe the Israeli government response to be majorly disproportionate.

There is nothing "wrong" with anything I commented here.

"No offense but no nobody gives a tit" you're not a spokesperson for anyone that wants to read and/ or comment here 😆😆😆

This thread would have been a good thread were it not for the bizarre personal and rude responses.

If one did not want discussion about the relevant wider politics in addition to the genocide, then it shouldn't have been called the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
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Your are the one who is taking offence where none was intended towards you,pet. What age are you?!

What a stupid response from a stupid tit (your word)such as yourself
I guarantee you don't know anything especially about geopolitics,hence your unitelligent responses.
No gives a tit about you and your bad mannered and bizarre responses, but this thread is not meant to be an echo chamber. Get over it

Why I responded here in the first place is because I believe the Israeli government response to be majorly disproportionate.

There is nothing "wrong" with anything I commented here.

"No offense but no nobody gives a tit" you're not a spokesperson for anyone that wants to read and/ or comment here 😆😆😆

This thread would have been a good thread were it not for the bizarre personal and rude responses.

If one did not want discussion about the relevant wider politics in addition to the genocide, then it shouldn't have been called the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Are you ok hun?
 
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