Israeli - Palestinian Conflict #16

[Guyyyyyzzzzzz]

I just find it odd that people still come on here to post stuff that apparently show Jews being victimised . I’m sure they still do get abuse, from small minded people, no-one is or has ever denied that, it’s wrong.

I just don’t understand the point? Everyday that a child is murdered, or rather children and it’s posted here and then someone comes on and posts something about antisemitism it’s baffling.

Maybe I’m being incredibly stupid, but I didn’t think this is a competition to see who has it worse.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I didn’t think this is a competition to see who has it worse.

And if it was, there is no question of who would win.

It's like crying about getting a dodgy haircut to a cancer patient who has lost all their hair. Tone deaf.

 

[toomuchstuff]

I just find it odd that people still come on here to post stuff that apparently show Jews being victimised . I’m sure they still do get abuse, from small minded people, no-one is or has ever denied that, it’s wrong.

I just don’t understand the point? Everyday that a child is murdered, or rather children and it’s posted here and then someone comes on and posts something about antisemitism it’s baffling.

Maybe I’m being incredibly stupid, but I didn’t think this is a competition to see who has it worse.

You're exactly right. We can't lose sight of the Palestinians reality.

 

[Justhereforthedrama]

Saw this on AlJazeera.

argh Hamas want 30 Palestinians back for every hostage, can see how this gives Israel an opportunity to say no.

and in the second stage they want all Palestinian prisoners released?

That's never going to happen.

Sceptical head on me says they (Hamas) knew Israel would never agree to this deal.
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I just find it odd that people still come on here to post stuff that apparently show Jews being victimised . I’m sure they still do get abuse, from small minded people, no-one is or has ever denied that, it’s wrong.

I just don’t understand the point? Everyday that a child is murdered, or rather children and it’s posted here and then someone comes on and posts something about antisemitism it’s baffling.

Maybe I’m being incredibly stupid, but I didn’t think this is a competition to see who has it worse.

I dont get why that would even be a problem? Its part of the conflict, the rise in antisemitism is a direct consequence of the conflict there.

 

[avabella]

argh Hamas want 30 Palestinians back for every hostage, can see how this gives Israel an opportunity to say no.

and in the second stage they want all Palestinian prisoners released?

That's never going to happen.

Sceptical head on me says they (Hamas) knew Israel would never agree to this deal.
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I dont get why that would even be a problem? Its part of the conflict, the rise in antisemitism is a direct consequence of the conflict there.

Proportionally, Israel hold many more Palestinian prisoners than Hamas do. So why wouldn’t it be accepted? Because the Israeli lives are worth more? We’ve already seen they mean nothing to Netanyahu, or else why would he refuse? The deal is there to get them ALL back. Why would releasing more Palestinians be a problem to him? Why does he still want more Palestinian prisoners? Don’t you see how ridiculous that argument is?

Also bearing in mind that a large majority of those ‘prisoners’ in Israel are held without charge or trial. Including an 8 year old boy who was shot just the other day.

 

[toomuchstuff]

After watching last nights destruction and considering the indifference from the rest of the world to the IOF atrocities I got to thinking (I know ridiculously) lets just get all the Palestinians out of Palestine, let the fecking Israelis have it all, they can all just fecking sit in there and rot, the rest of the world can cease trading with them, no airlines or ships service the place and they can all just sit there and think how bloody wonderful they feel knowing the whole world hates them but they have all the land, then they can all just go to hell.
The Palestinians can go live some beautiful place, peacefully and just enjoy their lives.

 

[Guyyyyyzzzzzz]

My point is that the way it’s posted, like the two are the same and it can’t possibly be true that children are being murdered because look at what’s happening here.

 

[Shimmering]

My point is that the way it’s posted, like the two are the same and it can’t possibly be true that children are being murdered because look at what’s happening here.

It's classic whataboutery. Typical derailing / trolling / propaganda technique.

Whataboutism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[IGiveUp22]

Proportionally, Israel hold many more Palestinian prisoners than Hamas do. So why wouldn’t it be accepted? Because the Israeli lives are worth more? We’ve already seen they mean nothing to Netanyahu, or else why would he refuse? The deal is there to get them ALL back. Why would releasing more Palestinians be a problem to him? Why does he still want more Palestinian prisoners? Don’t you see how ridiculous that argument is?

Also bearing in mind that a large majority of those ‘prisoners’ in Israel are held without charge or trial. Including an 8 year old boy who was shot just the other day.

I don’t believe it is a problem/the OP was saying it was. It’s something Isreal will use to continue to bomb Gaza because their argument is that all/most of those people will be hamas so they won’t want to release them which obviously is ridiculous to the normal person because those people are mostly innocent civilians that have been imprisoned wrongly, with no trial for doing nothing.
But the brain washing is “they’re all hamas” so if they release these people, they’re re-arming hamas which tbh, I actually think is part true. Half of those people that have been imprisoned wrongly, their homes have been destroyed, their family’s have been murdered..what do they have to live for anymore? Some of them probably will fight back.
This is what I meant by the bombing to “wipe out hamas” will never happen because of Israel’s actions

 

[IBH8-8]

Half of those people that have been imprisoned wrongly, their homes have been destroyed, their family’s have been murdered..what do they have to live for anymore? Some of them probably will fight back.
This is what I meant by the bombing to “wipe out hamas” will never happen because of Israel’s actions

Exactly. What are some kids orphaned due to Israeli bombs going to do when they grow up? Pick up a weapon and fight back. Then be labelled a terrorist. Israel’s strategy of ‘wiping out Hamas’ only works if they kill every single person otherwise people will fight back. And so the cycle of violence will continue.

 

[Lammington]

My point is that the way it’s posted, like the two are the same and it can’t possibly be true that children are being murdered because look at what’s happening here.

"Down there are people who will follow any dragon, worship any god, ignore any iniquity. They accept evil not because they say yes, but because they don't say no." - Terry Pratchett

 

[IGiveUp22]

Yep, the cycle just continues. This, and the land grab, is the reason why Isreal will not stop or agree to any deal. I just wish everyone else would step in and stop it all and force them to accept this deal and then separate the two into two states where neither have involvement with the other - I know this will never happen but you can wish can’t you

 

[Dogmuck]

That's never going to happen.

Sceptical head on me says they (Hamas) knew Israel would never agree to this deal.

This is exactly what happens every time there’s a hostage swap * because
1. Israelis think their lives are worth at least 30 times more than the Palestinians *
2. That’s why the Israelis continually take thousands (currently 10000) of Palestinians including children and women and hold them without charge or on trumped up charges in military prisons…ergo hostages**
3. That’s why the delightful Israelis constructed the Hannibal directive - and that’s why only a few hundred hostages were taken rather than many more…because the Israelis blew them up with helicopters and tanks and then tried to pin it on Hamas. That’s why they killed 3 of their own hostages and have done fk all to safely release the others - dead hostages work better for Israel
*see the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange where a 2011 agreement between Israel and Hamas to release Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in exchange for 1,027 prisoners
**About 3,660 Palestinians being held in Israel are under administrative detention, according to Addameer. An administrative detainee is someone held in prison without charge or trial
***https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67745092.amp

Hannibal Directive - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

.

Hannibal Directive in Jewish law

The Hannibal Directive is just one more reminder of the dangerous consequences of well-intentioned but ultimately misguided prisoner exchange policy.

m.jpost.com

Another Israeli soldier admits to implementing the ‘Hannibal Directive’ on October 7

Captain Bar Zonshein recounts firing tank shells on vehicles carrying Israeli civilians on October 7. “I decide that this is the right decision, that it’s better to stop the abduction and that they not be taken,” he told Israeli media outlets.

mondoweiss.net

 

[Charlotte1993]

I just find it odd that people still come on here to post stuff that apparently show Jews being victimised . I’m sure they still do get abuse, from small minded people, no-one is or has ever denied that, it’s wrong.

I just don’t understand the point? Everyday that a child is murdered, or rather children and it’s posted here and then someone comes on and posts something about antisemitism it’s baffling.

Maybe I’m being incredibly stupid, but I didn’t think this is a competition to see who has it worse.

I feel that a lot of people are uneducated on the difference between Judaism and Zionism and I know the lines are blurred with some denominations but not all because many Jews are appalled by what’s happening and they’re out there demonstrating and being active on SM and expressing their dislike of the current situation/government in Israel.
I think many just clump all Jews as pro Israel/Arab haters but that’s not true but I see how that could cause an issue as it does when xenophobes label all Muslims as terrorists.
I tend to judge people on a case by case basis regardless of any religion or colour and if I think hey you’re a good person then that’s good enough for me.
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Proportionally, Israel hold many more Palestinian prisoners than Hamas do. So why wouldn’t it be accepted? Because the Israeli lives are worth more? We’ve already seen they mean nothing to Netanyahu, or else why would he refuse? The deal is there to get them ALL back. Why would releasing more Palestinians be a problem to him? Why does he still want more Palestinian prisoners? Don’t you see how ridiculous that argument is?

Also bearing in mind that a large majority of those ‘prisoners’ in Israel are held without charge or trial. Including an 8 year old boy who was shot just the other day.

Plus it was an Israeli deal I know mediators put it forward headed by the Americans but come on it was given the green light first because the Americans wouldn’t have put it forward otherwise.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

 

[Justhereforthedrama]

Proportionally, Israel hold many more Palestinian prisoners than Hamas do. So why wouldn’t it be accepted? Because the Israeli lives are worth more? We’ve already seen they mean nothing to Netanyahu, or else why would he refuse? The deal is there to get them ALL back. Why would releasing more Palestinians be a problem to him? Why does he still want more Palestinian prisoners? Don’t you see how ridiculous that argument is?

Also bearing in mind that a large majority of those ‘prisoners’ in Israel are held without charge or trial. Including an 8 year old boy who was shot just the other day.

Well to Israel (not to us outside Israel\Palestine), yes the Israeli lives are worth more. So they wont accept a 30/1 ratio of captive swap. I feel that's fairly obvious. it was a ceasefire proposal that was designed to fail IMO.

Heres Piers Morgan poking holes in the Israeli govt spokespersons argument.

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My point is that the way it’s posted, like the two are the same and it can’t possibly be true that children are being murdered because look at what’s happening here.

I totally don't see it that way, I see Palestine being eviscerated and normal Jewish people in countries outside of Israel suffering the consequences of their governments' action (goes without saying incomparable than the Palestinian genocide but absolutely should not be happening all the same.)

 

[Veronicaaa]

After watching last nights destruction and considering the indifference from the rest of the world to the IOF atrocities I got to thinking (I know ridiculously) lets just get all the Palestinians out of Palestine, let the fecking Israelis have it all, they can all just fecking sit in there and rot, the rest of the world can cease trading with them, no airlines or ships service the place and they can all just sit there and think how bloody wonderful they feel knowing the whole world hates them but they have all the land, then they can all just go to hell.
The Palestinians can go live some beautiful place, peacefully and just enjoy their lives.

Even if they manage to get rid of every Palestinian in Gaza, they won't stop there. They'll go even harder on the West Bank and try to expand into Southern Lebanon and god know where else. What I'm looking for is some sort of realisation of the scale of the crimes they've committed, a 'what have we done' moment of horror and regret that appears unlikely to ever come.

 

[bitterntwisted]

I feel that a lot of people are uneducated on the difference between Judaism and Zionism

Yeah, tell my dumb dumb prime minister that. Actually, I will give him a piece of my mind, the twerp. Here's the clip where he says "Zionism is not a dirty word."

 

[Dogmuck]

I dont get why that would even be a problem? Its part of the conflict, the rise in antisemitism is a direct consequence of the conflict there.
[/QUOTE]
Thousands, possibly millions, of Jews disagree with you. But how can some perceived hurty feelings in Manchester have any bearing on what’s occurring in the Middle East? Pretty sure a fellow zio of yours asked why discuss the merits of the Labour as they can’t get a ceasefire? I mean fkng hell if the opposition party, who are said to become the next government of the UK, can’t be discussed in this context then I’m damn sure some videos of, who knows what, with someone allegedly being antisemitic in a park in Manchester, in the midst of discussions about ACTUAL real images of ethnic cleansing and genocide, can get in the bin.

Outside of Palestine itself there have been people killed because they are Palestinian, there have been people shot at resulting in life changing injuries because they were Palestinian, there have been people who have lost their jobs, been cancelled because of their pro Palestinian views, there are currently students being dragged, beaten and physically assaulted by police and Zionists for peacefully demonstrating and asking for a ceasefire. Proportionally matters to most but obviously not anyone who supports Israel because we know that 800 civilians killed - many at their own hands - means that 40,000 + Palestinian deaths is not enough, starving 2 million Palestinians is not enough, orphaning 20000 Palestinian children is not enough, injuring 100,000 Palestinians is not enough, destroying the home and infrastructure of over 2 million Palestinians is not enough- we know that enough will be when all of Palestine is occupied by Israel and all Palestinians are erased from their land.

 

[Lammington]

I totally don't see it that way, I see Palestine being eviscerated and normal Jewish people in countries outside of Israel suffering the consequences of their governments' action (goes without saying incomparable than the Palestinian genocide but absolutely should not be happening all the same.)

Edit: Late night reading means I read your apostrophe in the wrong place, and I acknowledge this was not your meaning. I'll leave the post as is otherwise, as I still believe the point, but I fully recognise this was not your intention.

Something I want to point out here, that I think goes to part of why antisemitism is seeing a rise from all this - the Israeli government are not the government of Jewish people outside of Israel. They claim to represent the Jewish diaspora, and certainly love to claim that any resistance to or pushback on the actions of Israel is antisemitism, but they simply do not.
They are the government of Israel. They are becoming increasingly more authoritarian and enforcing the country as an ethnostate more and more with it, but that will never mean that they represent all Jews.

No Jewish citizen of another country should be attacked in the name of Israel, and nor should they place a higher value or lower expectation of adherence to international law on Israel.

A country being an ethnostate of someone's given ethnicity or ethnoreligious group does not mean that country represents them.