Ioan Gruffudd & Alice Evan #159 Saint Ioan of Tattle wouldn’t ride MN into battle.

[Ally Pally]

Co sis

Blimey, had a lot to catch up on. I honestly didn't think she could sink any lower. What a disgusting witch.

Re custody, whether that be 100% or 50%, I just don't see how either can safely work. They have shown that they are willing to walk back to Alice, so how can he safely have them overnight? He can't keep an eye on them for 24 hours a day.

Consistency I'm guessing and gaining the girls trust. Kids see far more than they let on and I'm pretty sure at this stage they both know what their mother is doing isn't normal behavior.

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

the one filing Leon made (about the TRO) was pretty impressive, he had me almost agreeing

and yes, agreed, if you skim and you see a unknown date...I mean what person would not stop and read that?!

I don't think Marie read the document at all. Just signed that she did.

 

[Nadia Vulvokov]

I'm not sure if someone has already said this but narcissists see their children as an extension of themselves. Fictional example Tommy Lee Royce in Happy Valley, and IRL Jeanette McCurdys mum (If you haven't read Jeanette's book I'm Glad My Mom Died then it's absolutely harrowing but a vital read to educate on non physical child abuse).

It's pretty clear Ella is the main bargaining chip here. Unfortunately, Alice can't see the enormous amount of damage she is inflicting on her and poor Elsie probably wants to be with her sister and not alone with her father because of how Ella appears to feel about him.

Unless some Judge/CPS steps in then the damage caused will be irreversible. Jeanette McCurdy is still struggling and admits in her book she thinks she will do all her life.

Ioan is really stuck between a rock and a hard place isn't he? He must be absolutely exhausted. A resolution to this situation cannot come fast enough.

 

[klairklopp]

Jesus Christ. Poor Ioan. Poor Elsie. And poor Ella, being used as a weapon by Alice.

And yet on SM she’s still claiming he doesn’t want to see them and her FM’s lap it all up. All they have to do is read these official court documents to see the truth and see what a nasty manipulative narcissistic waste of time she is. I can’t believe she’s getting away with such traumatic PA for this long especially given Ella’s age and the difficulty in rehabilitating her from Alice’s lies. Reading what Ioan and the girls are going through is actually unbelievable. It’s none of my business but it makes me so angry .

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

I would imagine she has asked Ella to record her time with IG. That’s why A was in a panic and thought he was going through the phones. The recordings would be on Ella’s phone.

I don't have the latest phone (can't afford an iphone 14 unlike that bleep) but can you record for 6 hours non-stop?

 

[klairklopp]

Gonna make myself a cuppa tea and get comfy to read this! Thank you for posting it

I suggest something stronger than tea. As was suspected it’s not good reading

 

[Lulugrace]

Apologies for just barging in … I’m a reader not a poster …
but one positive in the whole sorry saga is that there seems to be a number of strong, kind women on the sidelines (Ioan’s mum, Bianca, Gloria and now Iris and Gina that we are aware of) who have stepped up and hopefully will be there to help the girls through whatever comes next in a positive role model way.

Hi! Glad you posted and yes I agree there are some strong women there ready to help and support when needed.

 

[ButterTart]

I'm pretty sure that it's viewed as a crime in California.

It's not a crime in California though evidence of it can be used to modify custody.

 

[welp]

I don't have the latest phone (can't afford an iphone 14 unlike that bleep) but can you record for 6 hours non-stop?

Easily, it's not limited other than memory space and battery capacity. 6 hours is a breeze. even my 2 year old Samsung can do that

 

[Lulugrace]

I lost my dad 2 months ago and this broke my heart

Sorry for your loss

 

[Moe]

She will continue to disrupt any contact Ioan has with the girls. Whether it’s 50/50 or 100%. She has enmeshed them to her and parentified them. Not a slight on either kid, it’s Alice that has caused all of this.
This woman called her kid a “tedious witch” and the other 9 year old a “snitch”.
She’s an absolute monster.

She’s Mummy bleeping Dearest.

 

[iamthecat]

I feel so sorry for Ella - she’s clearly in survival mode and just doing what she can to keep Alice back from the edge (I wouldn’t be surprised at all if A has told her that she’d kill herself or do something terrible), keep Elsie safe and protect her from the worst of Alice’s rages. Ella probably thinks all of this is her responsibility (because Alice has told her it is) and that if she does have the contact with Ioan that she wants, it’ll be her fault when Alice implodes/explodes… it’s no wonder she’s having emotional outbursts and kicking off whenever she’s with Ioan, it’s the only chance she gets to let off the incredible amount of pressure building up for her

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

Kids see far more than they let on and I'm pretty sure at this stage they both know what their mother is doing isn't normal behavior.

This is why Alice has them so isolated. No contact with the wider family - I am not even sure the real Tone has phone contact with them. The kids are basically in a cult and it is worrying that we don't know if Ella has a school or not. They are totally dependent on Alice and forget that they only have a roof over their heads and food etc is because of the dad they refuse to see.

Alice is also showering them with expensive tit too and lets them do what they want (except if they want to see their dad). They will love her and want to please her despite everything. That said, there must be a lot of gossip secretly amongst Ella's friends. I would be mortified if I was her. It is noticable that the kids haven't featured on her SM in a good while. CF posted them though.

 

[Seagreen]

What is it about this situation that is so heart wrenching. I'm not a sentimental person but reading the latest report, I had tears again.

It's the thought of him walking behind them, and the knowledge that she will have twisted that caring act (that any normal parent would do) into something to make him look small to the girls. It's just so very, very unfair. She must know it, how does she live with herself. This has to end well for Ioan.

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

Easily, it's not limited other than memory space and battery capacity. 6 hours is a breeze. even my 2 year old Samsung can do that

yikes. That's probably what happens then.

Narcs always tell on themselves. Their accusations are admissions.

IG: Ella called Alice on speakerphone after I asked everyone to put their phones in the center console of the car so we could have a nice, phone-free time. I heard Alice telling Ella on speakerphone that there was something wrong with me, and I don't have a right to their phones. Alice said that she had called her lawyers, the lawyers were going to call the police, and that I wanted their phones to "investigate" Ella and Elsie and "look for tit."

Alice is using the kids' phones to get 'tit' on Ioan. For sure.

 

[House of Tea]

yikes. That's probably what happens then.

Narcs always tell on themselves. Their accusations are admissions.

IG: Ella called Alice on speakerphone after I asked everyone to put their phones in the center console of the car so we could have a nice, phone-free time. I heard Alice telling Ella on speakerphone that there was something wrong with me, and I don't have a right to their phones. Alice said that she had called her lawyers, the lawyers were going to call the police, and that I wanted their phones to "investigate" Ella and Elsie and "look for tit."

Alice is using the kids' phones to get 'tit' on Ioan. For sure.

Projection

 

[ButterTart]

Not sure I totally agree with this - I don't think Ioan can get, nor would want 100% custody. He is in a difficult place in that he is a B-/C+ list actor and right now has to take what work is given and invariably this means working away from home for large chunks. He also made a key mistake, in my opinion, in going to Australia and missing 2 key therapy sessions - I question whether that was essential. That, together with his extended holiday in the UK is likely to have given the girls the firm impression that they come second after Bianca. This, with the other missing session (work in NY) plus Alice's shenanigans mean the therapy has not happened meaningfully for the girls at a critical time. I think Ioan is in a truly awful position but I also think he has made mistakes.
The likelihood of him getting 100% custody is moot anyway. No-one can prove - to the burden of proof required for the courts/CPS - that Alice is abusive or neglectful to her children. Her PA is clear but again that has gone on so long now and is so entrenched that it may work against Ioan getting any custody at all (in particular for Ella as she may refuse to engage and the courts won't force her). If regular therapy isn't immediately instituted (and it's doubtful it will for months and months due to the slow pace of the court) it's unlikely anything will change. And if therapy doesn't work, the only thing to hope is that Alice will do a Betty Broderick and drop the kids off with him to try and break up him and B.
It is a horrible crappy situation, but sadly it's one that happens on an all-too regular basis in divorce cases. Unfortunately it is usually the father who is alienated. Alice, the evil bleep, will likely succeed with her PA in the short term, but long term, once they are adult, I am sure they will start to see the truth and will re-develop a relationship with Ioan.

She has a violation on her DVRO and the judge MUST consider that in deciding whether to grant Alice any custody. So it's not moot at all. I suspect Ioan has a mountain of evidence showing Alice's abuse and neglect. And yes, the court can force a child under the age of 18 to comply with custody orders, and if the child refuses, the parent enabling this can face court ordered sanctions.

 

[Nixlondon]

as for custody: if Alice is convicted for a DVRO breech she is not entitled to custody, though obviously even if he would get 100 % on paper it wouldnt be at least short term what would happen in reality though

Not true - she will likely be charged with a 'wobbler' misdemeanour. The rebuttal presumption against custody can be argued against. The key issue is the best interests of the child. There is no physical violence against the children and the children have resided with Alice for the majority of their time for years. The arguments against the rebuttal presumption are:

1. Whether the alleged abuser has demonstrated that giving sole custody or joint custody of a child to him or her is in the best interest of the child.
2. Whether the alleged abuser has successfully completed a batterer’s treatment program that meets the criteria outlined in subdivision (c) of Section 1203.097 of the Penal Code. Even if not ordered, a batterer’s intervention program is almost universally required by family court judges when a litigant is attempting to overcome the Family Code 3044 presumption. [Not applicable to Alice as no physical violence]
3. Whether the alleged abuser has successfully completed an alcohol and chemical dependency program if the court determines that counseling is appropriate. [Not applicable as court has not made this determination - but hopefully will do so]
4. Whether the alleged abuser has successfully completed parenting classes if the court determines the classes to be appropriate. [She has completed the required parenting classes. Hopefully the court will order more]
5. Whether the alleged abuser is on probation or parole, and whether he or she has complied with the terms and conditions of their probation or parole. This is even more important when the criminal conviction relates to domestic violence. [Not applicable to Alice and unlikely to become applicable - likelihood is misdemeanour wobbler charge]
6. Whether the alleged abuser is restrained by a protective order or restraining order, and whether he or she has complied with its terms and conditions. [This is applicable, but again only refers to Ioan and not the children]
7. Whether the alleged abuser has committed any further acts of domestic violence. [This is applicable, but again only refers to Ioan and not the children]

Unfortunately, Alice has a strong chance to legally overturn the rebuttal presumption on the key item of 'in the best interests of the children'

 

[Bridgeofsighs]

It's the thought of him walking behind them

It's sad that he can't even walk with them until they get close to Alice's den of doom. Jeez, as Alice Tone would say...

 

[welp]

Not true - she will likely be charged with a 'wobbler' misdemeanour. The rebuttal presumption against custody can be argued against. The key issue is the best interests of the child. There is no physical violence against the children and the children have resided with Alice for the majority of their time for years. The arguments against the rebuttal presumption are:

1. Whether the alleged abuser has demonstrated that giving sole custody or joint custody of a child to him or her is in the best interest of the child.
2. Whether the alleged abuser has successfully completed a batterer’s treatment program that meets the criteria outlined in subdivision (c) of Section 1203.097 of the Penal Code. Even if not ordered, a batterer’s intervention program is almost universally required by family court judges when a litigant is attempting to overcome the Family Code 3044 presumption. [Not applicable to Alice as no physical violence]
3. Whether the alleged abuser has successfully completed an alcohol and chemical dependency program if the court determines that counseling is appropriate. [Not applicable as court has not made this determination - but hopefully will do so]
4. Whether the alleged abuser has successfully completed parenting classes if the court determines the classes to be appropriate. [She has completed the required parenting classes. Hopefully the court will order more]
5. Whether the alleged abuser is on probation or parole, and whether he or she has complied with the terms and conditions of their probation or parole. This is even more important when the criminal conviction relates to domestic violence. [Not applicable to Alice and unlikely to become applicable - likelihood is misdemeanour wobbler charge]
6. Whether the alleged abuser is restrained by a protective order or restraining order, and whether he or she has complied with its terms and conditions. [This is applicable, but again only refers to Ioan and not the children]
7. Whether the alleged abuser has committed any further acts of domestic violence. [This is applicable, but again only refers to Ioan and not the children]

Unfortunately, Alice has a strong chance to legally overturn the rebuttal presumption on the key item of 'in the best interests of the children'

I've linked the explanation of the court site the other day, but you are wrong on 6. It doesnt matter if Alice's restraining order is the kids having a RO against her. so long it's a close relative of the kids (grandparents, father, stepparent) that point applies

edit: see here https://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/3044sheetEN.pdf