I'd imagine AE's dad and stepmum had to deal with a lot of this same sort of BS, (without the legal matters and publicity) both before and after they went no contact. We see vile cruelty and abuse from AE online, but then court documents come out and we realize all over again that what we see is only the tip of the iceberg. I'll never forget that post AE wrote about her stepsister's suicide, the implications that her dad was abusive, her stepmum didn't care and the girl killed herself because of them.
Ioan Gruffudd & Alice Evan #159 Saint Ioan of Tattle wouldn’t ride MN into battle.
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You know what i can't get my head around is mAlices FMs:
FM: Hi Alice I hope you're okay after having to go to court for repeatedly breaking the DRVO for being an abusive bleep!
Malice:
I'm starting to think that all these FMs accounts are actually all mAlice and sockbro, because, please don't tell me people are really this thick! That after all the evidence they still think that this fuckwit is innocent
FM: Hi Alice I hope you're okay after having to go to court for repeatedly breaking the DRVO for being an abusive bleep!
Malice:
I'm starting to think that all these FMs accounts are actually all mAlice and sockbro, because, please don't tell me people are really this thick! That after all the evidence they still think that this fuckwit is innocent
Will Malice be required to respond to the breaking of the DVRO per incident, or will they all be bundled together in one? Will she have to plead her case over every incident? I’m sorry - I’m not au fait with the American legal system; but if she has to give a blow-by-blow account of every piece of venom she’s directed at IG/BW post the RO, it would easily take 10 days to wade through them all. Or will she not be required to give any testimony at all, and the judge will simply evaluate all the egregious breaches by themselves?
I believe that was AE using Tone's twitter again, and I absolutely agree with you that she's using the girls deliberately to hurt/intimidate IG and Iris.
Yeah… I got that from my physically (and mentally, and emotionally) abusive ex. ‘I wouldn’t have done X if you hadn’t made me lose my temper/if you had done what you were told/if you didn’t keep defying me.’ Malice is cut from the same revolting narcissist cloth. It’s just never her fault: someone else always made her do it.
Sadly true. And to be a spy and an instigator. There doesn't seem to be any bond between the eldest and Ioan left. No contact might be the safest option right now until Ella grows up a bit.
It might be best if Ioan just had visitation with Elsie but of course she would be heavily pressured not to go by the other two.
So this is a lawyer who admits in writing that she doesn’t read the court filings of the person she will have to face in court. Brilliant!
I suppose the idea is to have formally 50/50 but he will accept it if they go away after a few hours, and hopes that with weekly therapy (at some point they'd get therapy sessions that would also involve him) it can slowly become more possible.
I guess a chaperone (or he hires a nanny, I mean Gloria stayed often full days too) would move in from 3pm to 8 am every 2nd week (and Bianca spends time with him in the mornings, while she stays elsewhere the remaining week every two weeks), I mean given that he has filed for this there must be some idea behind it. Although if he does what I suggest he heavily risks his relationship to Bianca while likely not fixing his relationship to his kids.
Though I also wouldn't be surprised if he is just creating the paper trail at this point to show them in many years that he fought for them, and that's also why I understand filing for 50/50, if he files for full custody it looks like he is the problem who wanted to seperate them from their mom. I mean ultimately even 100 % custody will end up the same in the current scenario, they wont come anyway, or very little.
This whole disaster is btw proof yet again that it didnt mattered that he moved in with Bianca early. Through the custody in 2021 Alice taught Ella that she can just act up and leave, and now Elsie is dragged into this too. This has happened without Bianca, and it's happening now without her too. Though I do think he left court intervention too late.
I concur with others that this will not change until either a) Alice is locked up, b) the kids fall out with her extremely (which will no doubt happen), c) Ioan relentlessly reports every single breech to the court.
Much as I think Ioan should fight, and I think he should continue to fight especially with Alice inevitably at some point facing more serious consequences, at some point he too will have to consider whether it's just making things worse that way for both him and the kids (every time they go with him, even if just for 15 minutes they probably go through quite a trauma due to her "mother", which is probably why he wants full weeks instead of the classicall 5-5-2-2 most parents do). Or if him removing himself from the situation is what actually could tip the scales to his favour long term. He deserves a happy life. And it's too his credit that he is still fighting despite knowing that his heart will be broken every saturday over and over again. I actually hope regardless how this goes that he will have more children, he deserves to have children with a normal person.
I do agree, @veevee04. I’d actually argue that Ella is the most vulnerable of the bunch. She’s being used by Malice as a crutch and parentified. She feels things very deeply (I wager more so than Elsie, of whom even Malice said she was unperturbed by most things). She has to protect Elsie and help her with her schooling because Malice can’t be bloody bothered. All her friends will know about this hideous state of affairs - ditto their parents - which, for a young teen, is utterly mortifying. She has the burden of holding the household together because of Malice’s selfishness, laziness and various addictions. And Malice is relentlessly filling her head with poison, every single damned day. She is lashing out at IG because he’s the only one at whom she CAN lash out. Somewhere, beneath the surface, she knows he is a safe harbour and won’t pull a Malice - threatening to send her away if she doesn’t comply with Malice’s maliciousness, for example. And of course she blames him for leaving - she doesn’t yet understand that he had to leave because of the abuse (which I imagine had been normalised in that family). Living in such a toxic environment makes you normalise all kinds of abhorrent behaviour and, additionally, deeply untrusting: you don’t realise until you go out into the world that it is not the norm.
Poor kid. I wish someone could give her a big hug and tell her ‘it’s all right. It’s going to be all right. I’ve got you. You’re safe now.’
There is a very good documentary from SBS Australia on DV called See What You Made Me Do because it's such a bleeping cliché justification from abusers. With AE I think she really believes it. "I never abuse anyone... unless they deserve it." She really believes she has the right to treat people like this and like you wrote, her justification is it's always their fault because they made her do it. It's interesting actually that for all her online public bullying and abuse, there is a lot more she's hidden, so she knows it's wrong, but she just doesn't care. She's going to do what she wants to do and to hell with the consequences, to her, to the kids, to everyone. At the end of the day I think that's why she does what she does, no matter how batshit insane it is to the rest of us or how bad the consequences will be for her - for AE the only thing that matters is she gets her own way and she gets to do what she wants to do.
I wonder how the girls find it when they go to friends houses and realise how different their home life is.
I feel Ella is going what she can to survive the situation at the moment. AE is the dominant figure in her lives and if she does right by her, twisted as that is, in the short term she may see it as protecting her and Elsie. This isn’t unusual sadly in hostile co-parenting situations but it is incredible difficult for a non resident parent to navigate. I imagine IG will be well aware of her potential to harm him through false accusations, but will also realise that directly addressing or distancing himself from her will reinforce the abandonment narrative AE is trying to push.
I’ve been through this situation as part of the family dynamic and it was just awful. The anticipation mixed with dread leading up to each limited visit. The nonsensical cancellations, accusations, refusals. The feeling of not wanting to plan too much because it was so unpredictable but also not wanting the kids to feel under appreciated. The feeling of being observed by proxy by the other hostile co-parent, the barbs and distortions that would follow. Watching the pain it caused their dad but his refusal to give up or ever take it out on them. The eldest child in our situation was much like Ella, the younger was more passive and less obviously influenced, much like Elsie. In our situation, in the end it was the elder child who had enough when he got older and set his own boundaries, with the younger following suit after though she is still inclined to go along with things just not to ‘rock the boat’ . I truly hope the same in this situation but know it’s not always that simple.
Can Alice be required to comply with any sort of evaluation and if she doesn't comply it will impact custody? I think she needs some sort of psych hold would so she's away from the girls. This level of instability is heartbreaking for those girls to deal with.
I agree with everything you've said but the BIB. I think it's safe to assume pretty much every word out of AE's mouth is a lie, and given the photos we've seen of Elsie lately, I think she's a lot more affected by this. Often those who seem the most stoic are the ones who are the most sensitive and feel the most deeply.
I think the best thing that could happen at this point is for Alice to have a stint in jail. Not years, but not short. It would solve so many problems. Alice would detox, though possibly the hard way. She would not have to worry about finding a job or food or lodging, at least for a while. She could play the martyr role for her FMs. Meanwhile, the girls would presumably have to go to Ioan. No skipping visits or walking home (no Alice to go to) after 15 minutes. Far less Alice influence and the demands that the girls pick Alice 100% would lose their punch. It would give them all a chance to reset. Here’s hoping.
Apologies for just barging in … I’m a reader not a poster …
but one positive in the whole sorry saga is that there seems to be a number of strong, kind women on the sidelines (Ioan’s mum, Bianca, Gloria and now Iris and Gina that we are aware of) who have stepped up and hopefully will be there to help the girls through whatever comes next in a positive role model way.
I’m not sure about that. Malice was clearly in narcissist devaluation mode for the last four years of their marriage. When narcs get bored and tired with their current relationship, they begin to infantilise and psychologically abuse their spouse/partner. It starts with a simple question, statement or message that causes the narc to want to tip the other off the pedestal of their own creation. (I’m wondering whether Malice’s moment came when he chided her for making hideously inappropriate remarks on Twitter - that’s not the woman I married; the woman I married was dignified, &c., and she told her followers that he didn’t know her at all, or words to that effect.) The abuse and gaslighting starts slowly, then snowballs. I think IG’s survival instincts kicked in when she rang him on set when he was in Australia and bullied him/those around him so that he would come back to LA, followed by the beating-around-the-head and drunken stupor on the floor incident. He was at the end of his tether. He couldn’t even have a bath in privacy. And he would have realised that her behaviour was seriously jeopardising his ability to get work - which was essential, given that she refused to get off her fat arse/SM. Chatting with BW online and being exposed to actual kindness and respect must have made him realise that Malice’s treatment of him was unforgivable - and the fact that she was doing it in front of the children even more so. So, in order to save his sanity, his career and a respectful and loving relationship with his children, he left. I am firmly of the opinion that Bianca came later - and thank God she did.
With Alice, every time on Twitter she makes a point of accusing Ioan of doing something/not doing something, in fact the opposite is true.
- "He didn't want to take them to therapy"
- "He cut off our phone and internet"
- "He doesn't want to see our girls"
- "He left us with no money"
- "He hates Ella"
- "He blindsided me when he left me"
I'm sure there's more I've missed off, this is just what I can remember off the top of my head.
Alice is manipulative, but she's also a bleeping moron. She needs to express herself in writing (Twitter, abusive emails and texts to Ioan and his family), so she's left a rich paper trail of her abuse, lies and contradictions, as well as evidence that knows she's done wrong.
From the first Mail Online interview she gave about their split. BIB is mine:
Why do you think that was "strange", you utter moron? Because your appalling and incomprehensible behaviour broke him.
So you even admit you knew it wasn't right, but the dopamine hit you got from the Twitter notifications from your internet friends made up for it.
Here, a woman in her 50s admits she doesn't like being told what to do, even though what she was doing had legal ramifications. What a bleeping hateful idiot. You're not 5 years old anymore. It really sounds like she could have oppositional defiant disorder (or maybe she's just a bleep).
Here, Alice neglects to mention that she was recording this whole interaction, ready to put up on her Instagram. Totally normal behaviour to record your husband coming back from being away for weeks, without any warning, right?
No you dipshit, you're meant to protect your girls and provide a stable environment for them. You're not meant to complain about your ex, use your daughters as confidantes/parentify them, terrify them, and manipulate them into hating their father.
But it's OK for you to call him "saggy vagina eyes" and insult him about his hair loss? You also threatened to leave him and get a new boyfriend, it's all there in the court documents.
To be fair, Ella did hand over her phone at the end but it's interesting that she couldn't just do that without calling mAlice first. She knew that Alice would make a meal of a simple request but it's worse than that. AE is trying to make them deeply suspicious of their own father. He will 'investigate' his kids as if they are criminals and 'look for tit'. All part of the PA.
There could be recordings on their phones of their convos with IG which Alice makes them record so that she can listen to them. That said, IG is not 'investigating' his kids and if we think that then we are buying into Alice's bullshit. He just wanted to talk to them without having to compete with their phones.
She’s terrified the children of their own father and their therapists. She mocks her brother for being a “conspiracy theorist” while telling her own children the world and its granny is against her. Paranoid they’ll discover and document her abuse. It’s clear she will never stop. It’s the fear of evidence leaking out.
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