but aren't her parents divorced? which would mean their earnings are not counted together
Grace Beverley #11 I’m a bestseller-to-be, don’t worry - always keep my roommates on cctv
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Definitely not working class
Why do so many professional, middle-class Brits insist they're working class? | Sam Friedman
LSE’s new study shows how our fetishisation of meritocracy makes privileged people frame their lives as an uphill struggle, explains academic Sam Friedman
www.theguardian.com
That was my point, you can’t compare someone like Grace who both of her parents are either millionaires or close to, to a family with a joint earning of that
ah ok, sorry misread your post!
I don’t mean to be rude, but please take a look at the state of Britain right now, and rethink your opinion on this. When there are single parents raising kids on minimum wage, 80k+ is absolutely enough to split between 2 people lol. And it is absolutely not an average salary, even in the south.
There is a lot of families up north that manage on ~40k combined even working really hard in normal jobs. 80k combined is not a standard wage
My original question was on what the different classes are and how you change between them because someone like Grace and her family who earn millions and inherit millions are not going to be in the same class as someone whose family wealth reaches 80k which puts you in that top %. I’ve not suggested that people with lower income don’t work hard or said anything negative around that, I myself don’t earn anywhere near that amount. But In many, not all but many, professions 40K is a very normal salary. Which goes back to my original question how does that change what class you’re in
Top 5% of earners would actually be £80k each, not per household. For household you'd have to have over £1.7m in assets to be considered in the top 5%. If your parents were earning £160k+ and you had a house valued over £1.5m you'd definitely benefit lol.
Thank you, you're doing the Lord's work here. And dare I say, you could write a whole
book on her bullshitAlso sorry to double post but if you're curious about where you'd be the IFS has a tool to show where you'd be in the UKs wealth distribution! https://www.ifs.org.uk/tools_and_resources/where_do_you_fit_in
I had never really considered this from a personal POV but it is such a complicated issue isn't it? my parents both grew up very poor working class but are now solidly middle class, due in part (obviously) to hard work, but also partly luck because the time they were born saw a large amount of social mobility, which is not really the case now. However, even when they were both on good salaries at times they felt different from a lot of the people around them who had grown up with more money just because of childhood experiences etc. And then I have an MA but work in a professional but very badly paid profession (out of choice, I love my job) and earn quite a lot less than the average UK salary but would still consider myself middle class just from my upbringing
I think it's helpful to understand that in Britain, class was more static than it is now and historically, to be upper class meant to be part of the aristocracy. Rich merchants were not considered upper class back in the day. Grace's family are not part of the aristocracy, but as social/class mobility has increased, the notion that upper class = aristocracy has decreased in popularity - especially for people that haven't been exposed to British society and its history. And as time passes and certain families - like Grace's - hold onto their wealth, as their wealth produces more wealth, these families seem more similar to aristocracy than ever. Because they are wealthy through what they inherit, and they accrue social influence and power over time, they become less distinguishable from your standard wealthy aristrocrat. I can see that to some people, the differences between aristocracy and families like Grace's aren't really meaningful. Like, "who cares how long your class status goes back once you've had the money for a few generations and dine with genuine aristocrats and other people in power?"
I do think the vast ground the term 'middle class' covers facilitates someone like Grace masquerading as 'just like us', and maybe people don't want to give her a way to lay claim to identifying as 'middle class' by referring to her as 'upper middle class'? Which TBF is exactly what she does.
Anyway, some people keep 'upper class' as purely in reference to aristocracy and therefore use 'upper middle' to describe families like Grace's, whereas other people don't. The standard definition is more the former, but maybe a case for linguistic descriptivism. (Edit: I also think the fact that people can move between being working class and middle class makes people apply the same logic to middle -> upper)
(Also @emm , similar bg to me!)
I do think the vast ground the term 'middle class' covers facilitates someone like Grace masquerading as 'just like us', and maybe people don't want to give her a way to lay claim to identifying as 'middle class' by referring to her as 'upper middle class'? Which TBF is exactly what she does.
Anyway, some people keep 'upper class' as purely in reference to aristocracy and therefore use 'upper middle' to describe families like Grace's, whereas other people don't. The standard definition is more the former, but maybe a case for linguistic descriptivism. (Edit: I also think the fact that people can move between being working class and middle class makes people apply the same logic to middle -> upper)
(Also @emm , similar bg to me!)
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See this makes more sense to me, whereas I have always understood it to be family income; meaning two adults or household income. Where that amount is much more realistic than just one person with that amount of wealth
Ugh this is just dripping in self entitlement. The one that got me was “I bought this house as a project knowing I wouldn’t be able to move in right away” and that she got the keys 3 DAYS after completing her Oxford Degree, and saved up for 2 YEARS. But yeah, she struggled all the way through uni...I found the interview and these are the offending quotes from it:
"My mum worked full time and that was such an important part of my upbringing"
"I needed some extra money to help me through uni"
"At Oxford, you're not allowed a part time job, which can throw a spanner in the works as the living costs were so high" (says the girl who didn't even take out a maintenance loan because she was that rich - don't pretend the cost of living was an actual impediment to you, ever)
exactly, most people don't even have the luxury to buy somewhere and not live there, especially somewhere like London. Her being able to live with family is in itself a huge priveledge, which of course she ignores. 2 years of saving to buy a multimillion pound house is hardly a lot either, most people save for much longer than that just to buy a small flat . Am I mistaken or did she once say she has no mortgage?
I think she said she has a mortgage but put down a hefty deposit and paid for renovations from savings. Happy to be corrected if wrong.
Also I’ve been saving for way longer and am looking at a max budget that’s many multiples smaller than what she spent on her house, not even including the renovations. She lives in a completely different world.
Yeh, was the same for me. I saved for years and years and was also lucky to have help from my parents, and even so in London it wasn't easy to just get a small flat.
I also don't get the logic of buying a huge house for your first purchase tbh, kind of unrelated to money (although bills etc must be insane) but surely part of buying somewhere (IMO anyway) is basically living alone (or maybe with a partner) for the first time? Although maybe this is just my view lol
Yeah it seems a bit ludicrous to me, especially to dive in with such huge renovations straight away as well. Maybe she’s so rich this feels like a starter home idk
This is one of the only places I’ve seen on the internet in which people actually talk directly about class inequality instead of solely bullshitting around with identity politics. Vive la tattle.
I think this thread is a really supportive environment. In some social settings, people are always trying to one-up each other, but I think by and large, people are ready to learn here (I’ve learned so much!!!) and don’t put each other down, belittle each other or argue in bad faith. I also think people care in this thread, maybe because the people that were drawn to Grace way back when, do care. People talk about their insecurities here and it’s never weaponised, which makes this feel like a safe space. We hold each other accountable but stay welcoming. I’m grateful for all the times people have addressed it frankly when I’ve said something out of line, and I’m happy to see people that have been called out return and are welcomed back to the conversation with a new perspective.
For the most part, nobody cares about “clout” (vomit), nobody is passive aggressive to each other, nobody is wilfully ignorant. I have seen stuff in other threads (but far more on twitter) that makes me question humanity but I come here and see the analysis & bants & it’s just *chef’s kiss*.
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