Gender Discussions #5

[Merpedy]

Biological women can be the victim of hate crimes too

I do agree that things should be kept separate though especially as they keep pushing the narrative that trans women are far more at risk

Interestingly that doesn't seem to be recognised by police forces (other than one in Nottinghamshire) or the law (? not sure on this but there have been calls to include misogyny as one in Sept 2020), obviously correct me if I'm wrong as this does seem an interesting topic if it is not recognised

I don't disagree but it's one of those things where stat definitions would be important

 

[SqualorVictoria]

This is what a hate crime is defined as by the police force in Ireland:

Hate Incidents – (Non Crime)
Any non-crime incident which is perceived by any person to, in whole or in part, be motivated by hostility or prejudice, based on actual or perceived age, disability, race, colour, nationality, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or gender.

Explanatory Notes
A person, community or institution may be a victim of hate crime by virtue of perceived or actual association with a particular group or background.
`Motivation` is presumed by a demonstration or expression of hostility or prejudice.
Ethnicity includes ‘Traveller’ and ‘Roma’.
Religion includes ‘non-believers’.
`Gender` includes gender identity, transgender, intersex, gender expression and gender exploration.
An `incident` is an occurrence reported to An Garda Síochána.

 

[Mr Krabs]

Biological women can be the victim of hate crimes too

I do agree that things should be kept separate though especially as they keep pushing the narrative that trans women are far more at risk

There was a police advert on a while ago about how making transphobic, homophobic, disablist comments in real life or online is illegal, and I remember thinking why aren't women included in these anti-hate crime campaigns? If you send someone abuse based on their gender identity, then according to the ad, the police would come knocking, but what about the raft of nasty tit we deal with just for being women?

 

[Merpedy]

This is what a hate crime is defined as by the police force in Ireland:

Hate Incidents – (Non Crime)
Any non-crime incident which is perceived by any person to, in whole or in part, be motivated by hostility or prejudice, based on actual or perceived age, disability, race, colour, nationality, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or gender.

Explanatory Notes
A person, community or institution may be a victim of hate crime by virtue of perceived or actual association with a particular group or background.
`Motivation` is presumed by a demonstration or expression of hostility or prejudice.
Ethnicity includes ‘Traveller’ and ‘Roma’.
Religion includes ‘non-believers’.
`Gender` includes gender identity, transgender, intersex, gender expression and gender exploration.
An `incident` is an occurrence reported to An Garda Síochána.

I've done some googling at it doesn't appear to be the case all around:

[from CPS] The term 'hate crime' can be used to describe a range of criminal behaviour where the perpetrator is motivated by hostility or demonstrates hostility towards the victim's disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or transgender identity.

Citizens advice has a similar definition to the above

The HoL library also seems to suggest the same thing but police forces do have the power to recognise misogyny as a hate crime, but essentially it only seems to apply to transgender?

 

[Inforapenny]

The police have a long way to go and you wonder why women don't trust them. I imagine its similar to why black and ethnic minorities don't trust them. It's be proven there is institutional racism. When faced with this sad excuse I definitely don't trust the police.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I've done some googling at it doesn't appear to be the case all around:

Citizens advice has a similar definition to the above

The HoL library also seems to suggest the same thing but police forces do have the power to recognise misogyny as a hate crime, but essentially it only seems to apply to transgender?

I would say though that a woman could be a victim of a hate crime for any of the other things mentioned, race, religion, etc. I can't decide if misogyny is not there because they see it as being too broad to define or if it is just so prevalent it's accepted as the norm. Depressing either way

 

[sephylily]

this person is one of the thickest individuals i've seen on twitter. no facts. no ability to read. no ability to grasp that in the very video you are quote tweeting it states that this is a list of women killed in the last year instead bleating on about trans women who were killed several years ago. and yet still 100 odd people liked it.

 

[emm]

this person is one of the thickest individuals i've seen on twitter. no facts. no ability to read. no ability to grasp that in the very video you are quote tweeting it states that this is a list of women killed in the last year instead bleating on about trans women who were killed several years ago. and yet still 100 odd people liked it.

so... I don't get it, should she have randomly thrown in loads of non white women?!

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I remember him, he went off on a rant about being misgendered in Tesco and was tweeting their social media account non stop. I felt so sorry for the poor girl who had to deal with him in store and the person who runs their social media account

 

[sephylily]

so... I don't get it, should she have randomly thrown in loads of non white women?!

there were non white women though! they just throw us women of colour in to try and add some substance to their argument when there isn't any

 

[CheshireLove]

this person is one of the thickest individuals i've seen on twitter. no facts. no ability to read. no ability to grasp that in the very video you are quote tweeting it states that this is a list of women killed in the last year instead bleating on about trans women who were killed several years ago. and yet still 100 odd people liked it.

He seems to only be able to give 1 name; of a black transwoman who died in 2018.

What a prat.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

He is most definitely a furry

 

[Mardymermaid]

Trans women often ask for others to elevate their voices and let them be heard. Now it’s time for them to do the same . Support us but don’t speak for us and don’t make it all about you.
Id tweet it but there’s no longer any civil discussion and I’d just be piled on.

 

[emm]

there were non white women though! they just throw us women of colour in to try and add some substance to their argument when there isn't any

sorry I didn't even realise this. it is ridiculous!

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

In Ireland during a well known grape case the victims knickers were held up in court as 'proof' that the victim was sexually open

I remember that. Shocking how that was allowed.

jess phillips getting told off by the TRA for not mentioning any trans women who have been killed on her list despite the fact the list is noting women killed in the last year and there have been no trans women killed in the last year.

Couldn’t make it up. They want to be victims. Pathetic.

The police have a long way to go and you wonder why women don't trust them. I imagine its similar to why black and ethnic minorities don't trust them. It's be proven there is institutional racism. When faced with this sad excuse I definitely don't trust the police.

Pc Skye. My local friendly neighbourhood police officer (not that local but close enough)

 

[Zenchick101]

I remember that. Shocking how that was allowed.

Couldn’t make it up. They want to be victims. Pathetic.


Pc Skye. My local friendly neighbourhood police officer (not that local but close enough)

I have a feeling he'll correct you if you misgender him..

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

A woman I know has just this moment "come out as non-binary" ... sigh. She says "gender is fake!" Yes, it is. Sex, however, is real and you are a woman. The fact that you're a marginalised woman (she is disabled and bisexual) doesn't change that, you can't choose not to be a woman

 

[skvallertant]

A woman I know has just this moment "come out as non-binary" ... sigh. She says "gender is fake!" Yes, it is. Sex, however, is real and you are a woman. The fact that you're a marginalised woman (she is disabled and bisexual) doesn't change that, you can't choose not to be a woman

I know someone who is quite a bit younger than me who has suddenly come out as bi and gender queer. She has a male partner and has said that she's never thought about this stuff before, yet suddenly she is drinking the koolaid. Her reasons for not feeling like a woman gender-wise is because she prefers the company of men. She's definitely "woke". I don't want to challenge her, because maybe she's telling the truth, but she's clearly a woman. It's only within the past few months that any of this has come up. I remember her recoiling and being awkward on a work night out years ago when I mentioned I'd had girlfriends in the past. All of this is really disturbing to me. I know I've not expressed myself that well in this post, but do you know what I mean?

 

[mindlessness]

That sounds like she’s found a comfort in a NB community online of people during lockdown and sort of latched on to it? @skvallertant
The last year of lockdown and restrictions I can understand people being radicalised by all sorts of stuff online - loneliness etc. It’s sad. Hopefully as things go back to normal real life human connections will help.

 

[skvallertant]

That sounds like she’s found a comfort in a NB community online of people during lockdown and sort of latched on to it? @skvallertant
The last year of lockdown and restrictions I can understand people being radicalised by all sorts of stuff online - loneliness etc. It’s sad. Hopefully as things go back to normal real life human connections will help.

Maybe. I don't know. At the end of the day it's none of my business. I just thought it was very odd and out of the blue, so just sharing my thoughts