Gender Discussions #5

[emmer_moans]

THREAD NUMBER 5.
A thread to continue gender discussions...

 

[DanaScully]

Thanks @emmer_moans for starting the new thread!

 

[emmer_moans]

Thanks @emmer_moans for starting the new thread!

I’m on my iPad and I was a bit butterfingers with it but now I know how to do it And the mods sorted us out so we should be fine now.

If anyone fancies doing a summary, go ahead.

 

[holliebollie]

I’ve just read an article on the BBC app about a trial in London of at home smear tests (DIY and post off)... all woman centred!!! Finally! No mention of ‘individuals with cervices’ (is that the plural?) or ‘cervix owners’. Just WOMEN. You know, the group that needs smear tests. I’m actually sad that I read it with a knot wondering when some awful label would come up halfway through. Two years ago I wouldn’t have even considered it, and now I read an article about cervical smears waiting to hear some BS name for women.

 

[Zenchick101]

That last post about "if it wasn't for TERFS transwomen would have uterus transplants and fibroids + dying in childbirth" was horrifying. I imagine first they would say that it would be donation based, by generous women in the U.K (assuming this person was from the uk) who would donate them for whatever reason, then when there weren't enough donations they'd go off about how it's their human right and demand there be more access and "donated" uteruses, how they should have priority over bio women. Nothing is ever enough.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

I’ve just read an article on the BBC app about a trial in London of at home smear tests (DIY and post off)... all woman centred!!! Finally! No mention of ‘individuals with cervices’ (is that the plural?) or ‘cervix owners’. Just WOMEN. You know, the group that needs smear tests. I’m actually sad that I read it with a knot wondering when some awful label would come up halfway through. Two years ago I wouldn’t have even considered it, and now I read an article about cervical smears waiting to hear some BS name for women.

I think a lot of the "individuals with cervixes" talk is designed to reach women who "don't identify" as women and might otherwise think it irrelevant to them. I guess that's not a problem with home tests, as they will just post it to women regardless of "gender identity"/"pronouns"

 

[jewelkitty]

Another women's refuge gone for not catering to men

 

[emmer_moans]

Another women's refuge gone for not catering to men

This is a disgrace.

 

[sephylily]

so you love lesbians who aren't lesbians? right.

 

[Lonelylondon]

Another women's refuge gone for not catering to men

And at a time where gender based violence (against women) is on the rise


where is the uproar about this? The conversation on race last year was 100% valid, but I can’t help but notice any uproar regarding women is non existent..

And at a time where gender based violence (against women) is on the rise


where is the uproar about this? The conversation on race last year was 100% valid, but I can’t help but notice any uproar regarding women is non existent..

Sorry noticed my link didn’t work, it was just a link to an article about the rise globally in violence against women during the pandemic

 

[holliebollie]

@witchofwestbyfleet I get why some (thankfully not all yet) companies want to use descriptors like ‘vagina owners’ but they mean women. Women have vaginas. And if someone who IS a woman but doesn’t want to be known as one doesn’t like being in the same category as ‘women’ then tough, really. Surely if you’re a woman with a cervix you’re going to know you still need a smear test. Not suddenly wake up one day and forget just because you now use they pronouns.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

@witchofwestbyfleet I get why some (thankfully not all yet) companies want to use descriptors like ‘vagina owners’ but they mean women. Women have vaginas. And if someone who IS a woman but doesn’t want to be known as one doesn’t like being in the same category as ‘women’ then tough, really. Surely if you’re a woman with a cervix you’re going to know you still need a smear test. Not suddenly wake up one day and forget just because you now use they pronouns.

Yes, exactly. And conversely we don't want (as reportedly happens) men who don't have a cervix showing up and wanting to use gynaecology services so they feel "validated"!

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

I managed just under an hour.

She is articulate and well read, I will give her that. But the majority of this is performative bullshit, littered with inaccuracies and hypocrisy. She is TOTALLY dismissive of the experience of women, sorry, cis, women, who have experienced misogyny. She is totally reductive (something she accuses us of) and laughably talks about transphobia and abuse and the use of acronyms, whilst simultaneously smearing the word TERF across the screen every 2 minutes or so just in case we'd forgotten it existed as a term of abuse. Our biology and our experiences of being a woman do not mean tit and the trans community have it far worse than anyone. She is obsessed with Rowling (or Joanne as she keeps calling her) and is far too smug for her own good.

@Phil Anne Throw Pee I think she made a good point about the 'sleep with whatever consenting adult who'll have you' coming across really douchy but I agree, I think ContraPoints is often a lot of style/performance over substance - and really, really long. I also find the drinking really weird and unnecessary.

I find it really interesting that she didn't want to go near definitions because not even the trans community can agree with what being trans is. Compare that to being gay, which has a very clear definition! I felt her argument on the Bell case 'infantalising transpeople' ridiculous considering the Bell case was concerned with literal children.

I was please that she criticised people for sending JK threats of sexual violence, but I also found her use of 'Joanne' quite overly familiar and a bit weird.

 

[Lonelylondon]

@witchofwestbyfleet I get why some (thankfully not all yet) companies want to use descriptors like ‘vagina owners’ but they mean women. Women have vaginas. And if someone who IS a woman but doesn’t want to be known as one doesn’t like being in the same category as ‘women’ then tough, really. Surely if you’re a woman with a cervix you’re going to know you still need a smear test. Not suddenly wake up one day and forget just because you now use they pronouns.

Yep, and what bothers me the most is that, when it comes to medical communication, you really need to keep things as simple as possible. The UK has a lot of people who’s first language may not be English, woman is simple ‘I am a woman so I need to get a smear test’, person with a cervix’ not so simple, ‘do I have a cervix? I don’t know.. what’s a cervix?’ For example

So re the ‘people with a cervix’ thing, I actually think it’s kind of ironic that we could actually take the language they want used, and flip it.. I’m gonna use the toilet scenario as an example (even though I think the toilet thing is focussed on waaaay too much and isn’t really a massive issue)

so, let’s go along with them and remove the word woman from everything, women’s toilets are now cervix toilets, women’s shelters are now cervix centres etc etc etc

well guess what, trans women don’t have a cervix
If they want to start using body parts to define woman and man then bring it on
Sometimes you have to give a group what they want for them and everyone else to realise how stupid it is

 

[Vee6]

I made the mistake of watching this before I went to bed, made my blood boil!!! I’ve never heard of this woman before and I’m glad I watched it through a critique video and not the original. Says how Joannnnne weaponises trauma and dv with a passive aggressive smiley face. Ugh. Vile.
I hate the joannnne thing, it’s like they are trying to patronise her. Do they really think she will give a dam what some jumped up, misogynistic Americans on YouTube think of her!!?!! Ha!

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

What is it with people calling her Joanne as if they know her? And often it’s people on the opposite side of this discussion.

I love that she can’t be cancelled. Who ever called her “she who cannnot be cancelled” on the last thread is a genius.

Someone on the covid thread got told off by a non-binary person because they assumed she was a woman whilst doing some volunteer work. I mean, most people are one or the other. NBs are so self important and also boring.

 

[jewelkitty]

What is it with people calling her Joanne as if they know her? And often it’s people on the opposite side of this discussion.

I love that she can’t be cancelled. Who ever called her “she who cannnot be cancelled” on the last thread is a genius.

Someone on the covid thread got told off by a non-binary person because they assumed she was a woman whilst doing some volunteer work. I mean, most people are one or the other. NBs are so self important and also boring.

I dunno if they're trying to sound subtly threatening when they use someone's first name like that. Ages ago when I first got pointed to a Contrapoints video I left what I thought was a fair comment, that I thought her theatrics got in the way of her points and that I also found her condescending. Someone swooped in on me addressing me by first name as I commented using my google account. I dunno it kinda felt deliberately invasive, they were so snide and passive aggressive. I changed my name on my account after that lol

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

I think it's supposed to be threatening, yeah. I knew one guy who tried to intimidate people by constantly repeating their names as he was talking to them "Actually Jack, the thing is, Jack, I don't think you know what you're talking about, Jack ..." He pulled this on me once and I did it back, which he didn't like

 

[jewelkitty]

Yeah I know those kinds of people too, I definitely think it's supposed to be threatening because it does feel like it, but if you say that to them they can just say "I'm only saying your name, how is that threatening?" So sly

 

[SqualorVictoria]

What is it with people calling her Joanne as if they know her? And often it’s people on the opposite side of this discussion.

I love that she can’t be cancelled. Who ever called her “she who cannnot be cancelled” on the last thread is a genius.

Someone on the covid thread got told off by a non-binary person because they assumed she was a woman whilst doing some volunteer work. I mean, most people are one or the other. NBs are so self important and also boring.

I've said on former threads that if someone identifies as non binary I know I won't be able to have a reasonable conversation with them. I have a non binary acquaintance who was great fun in their former self but is now just so boring and self important and bristling with victimhood. Being around someone like that is exhausting, having to watch every word you say and not being able to relax in case you cause offence