Gender Discussions #5

[holliebollie]

I’ve just read an article on the BBC app about a trial in London of at home smear tests (DIY and post off)... all woman centred!!! Finally! No mention of ‘individuals with cervices’ (is that the plural?) or ‘cervix owners’. Just WOMEN. You know, the group that needs smear tests. I’m actually sad that I read it with a knot wondering when some awful label would come up halfway through. Two years ago I wouldn’t have even considered it, and now I read an article about cervical smears waiting to hear some BS name for women.

 

[jewelkitty]

Another women's refuge gone for not catering to men

 

[judgejohndeed]

Next time I'm asked to add my pronouns to something I'm just going to say 'Can't, sorry. Haven't worked them out yet. Quite transphobic you've assumed I know what they are.'

 

[Libertine1975]

Some of the things I've read on this thread have made me consider things about trans people that I hadn't necessarily thought about before. This post is just some of my thoughts and isn't meant to offend anyone but a stream of things I've been thinking about for the last few weeks/months.

I would never discriminate against anyone for the race, sex, gender identity etc but someone mentioned in one if the threads that perhaps trans people are just mentally ill. It isn't something that I had particularly thought about and someone else I think commented about people who want a limb etc removed. To me that was a really interesting point.

The trans inclusion issue is one I feel conflicted about because I have nothing against trans people but I can understand that some women don't feel safe or comfortable using a space if a transwoman were also using the space. I do think that the only way to resolve the issue is for a third space and I would happily stand alongside trans people advocating for that.

I draw the line at transwomen being able to compete as women in professional sports. I really think this is a major issue and needs to be properly considered and addressed if transwomen are allowed to complete at a professional level women might as well give up. Seriously imagine is Usain Bolt suddenly decided he was Usuala, he would be winning womens races for years.

After considering it for a long time I don't think children should be given hormones. I think that any child who believes that they are trans should have counselling and therapy for a minimum period. I do not think that they should be able to start any treatments that will stop their development or change their appearance until they are at least 16 and have had however many years of therapy.

Mental health is something I am not sure we will ever totally understand. I know historically being anything but heterosexual was considered a mental health disorder but I think we have moved in the correct way with this. I think sexuality is a spectrum. I would say I am heterosexual but I can appreciate that certain women are very attractive and I would never say I wouldn't have a relationship with a woman, but I don't think I will. I also don't think it is transphobic for someone to say they wouldn't date a transperson. If you don't fancy someone you don't fancy them.

Sex and gender I don't think can be a spectrum. You are either XX or XY, I think this is why I don't understand non-binary. Sam Smith has said they are non-binary but even since they announced this I've seen no difference in how they present themselves publicly. Harry Styles I believe considers himself a man but has been photographed for magazines wearing skirts and dresses. The singer of the 1975 had worn what I call granny skirts when playing gigs but I believe considers himself a man.

With regards to people being non-binary partly wonder if people just want a 'label' in order to be cool, trendy or an outsider. At the moment my opinion is that these people are 'gender non-conforming' but don't want to say that as it enforces gender stereotypes. Fuck gender stereotypes, fuck labels just be whoever you want. If a man wants to wear a dress and heels go for it. Doesn't mean he isn't a man. If a woman wants a shaved head and to wear more masculine clothes again that's personal choice.

I've also been considering whether trans people are just reinforcing gender stereotypes.

 

[HoGi]

I was going to share this to my Instagram story...until I read the last line!

 

[judgejohndeed]

I cannot believe the number of TRAs atm saying stuff like 'transwomen are women like black women are women' in relation to what's happened to Sarah Everard? Do they seriously not realise how outrageously racist that is...transwomen are at best transwomen (men) black women are undeniably women. If you apply the slightest bit of pressure to the reasoning behind that comparison it is just hideously racist and they think they're progressives..

 

[emm]

 

[skvallertant]

Sorry for just jumping in with an old topic, I haven't read this thread in a while, but something happened today that made me think of the endometriosis and cervical screening posts and the terms "people with cervixes".

A lot of women/men already don't turn up to their cervical/prostate screenings as it is because of taboo and fear. People understand the words men and women to mean people with penises and prostate and people with uteruses, ovaries and vaginas. I know lots of very well educated cis women and cis men who don't know a) women don't have prostates, and b) women don't pee out of their vagina. How can they then be trusted to know what a cervix is? Those are regular, everyday people.

As a result, I think the everyday language of "male" and "female", "man" and "woman" needs to be retained for the health and safety of everyone. If it offends you as a trans person, that's fine by me, because it could potentially save the lives of other people who don't keep up to date with all the changes in discourse.

Medical language should be clear and simple. Adding things like "menses experiencers" is just obfuscatory.

*edit. Sorry for the poor writing. It's late and I'm angry

*edit again. I also think it's really immature to focus on language and stuff. Just admit you were born a dude and now you've embraced your true self as a woman. All that erasure is just immature to me. It's avoiding a huge part of the topic.


Edit again (sorry). Don't even get me started on how offensive I find period simulation. If you glamorise and simulate that, how dare you call yourself a woman.

Okay. I'm done. When do I get my column in a tabloid?

 

[Badabing101]

I’m on a call about something work related where a product has been specifically made with female biomechanics and anatomy in mind - it’s a big step forward for my company who has historically been testing and building products for men...can’t really say much more, but most products have been made pink and that’s enough (apparently lol) . Anyway, there’s a discussion around the consumer facing messaging that it shouldn’t say women because not all women are born female.

So basically the first time we have ever made a product which has been specifically researched and developed to fit women perfectly and massively enhance their / our experienc, the message is being diluted and reduced. This reminds me of the book ‘Invisible Women’ ... it’s making my blood boil

To use Female instead of women in our language just feels so cold and clinical.

edit : typos

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

This basically.

 

[judgejohndeed]

I have to say I find it really tiresome that the only time people listen about this issue are when it comes from men or men pulling stunts. It really shouldn't be that way. I appreciate that for now it's probably going to be the only way anyone listens. But it does infuriate me that listening to women saying the same thing just isn't good enough.

 

[jewelkitty]

Abortion Rights IE (@freesafelegal) are holding a panel for IWD and 4 out of the 5 people are trans, 3 are tranwomen (wtf has abortion got to do with them) and the other is that twat Noah Halpin
Jesus, didn't take them long to hijack the entire movement did it

 

[holliebollie]

I’ve not been on here for a few days so will have a proper catch up later... all I can say is WTF is going on in the world of women?!? Why are so many putting other people’s rights so far above their own?

I don’t care if a trans woman who has been through transition, lives fully as a woman, no longer has a penis, uses a women’s toilet and I’m sure that’s a normal view to have. We all need to go to the toilet.

What I don’t want is self identifying men who put on a £5 wig from Wish (or not even bother with that with self ID, be what you want!) and then enter any women’s toilet without any fear of being confronted. Why is that so hard to understand?

It’s not transphobic to fear men in your private space- I fear them when I’m out on my own in the street. I fear them when it’s dark and I have to walk past one or more of them. I fear them on nights out (the good old days!) when they linger close to my drink or grope me at the bar. It’s surely not a leap of faith to think I’ll fear them if they walked into a toilet and announced they were a woman and they had the LEGAL right to be there? Argh.

 

[TheGramIsASham]

Hi everyone, have I actually found a place where I can scream from the rooftops that a woman is an adult human female? And that men can never ever be women?
On this day, have I got that lucky?

 

[DanaScully]

This image is still relevant!

 

[sephylily]

jess phillips getting told off by the TRA for not mentioning any trans women who have been killed on her list despite the fact the list is noting women killed in the last year and there have been no trans women killed in the last year.

 

[Aquamarina]

I unashamedly and unapologetically stand with the wonderful Germaine Greer on the transgender issue. She said, “I’ve asked my doctor to give me long ears and liver spots and I’m going to wear a brown coat, but that doesn’t turn me into a fucking Cocker Spaniel.”
Men cannot be women, even if they decide to chop their penises off (which 99% of TiMs don’t according to medical data.)

 

[judgejohndeed]

I'm so tired of all these International Women's Day messages that centre transwomen...can we not have one day? But sure, tell me again how women aren't being erased by this shite.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

How spot on was Germaine Greer when she said years ago that the trans movement is basically men saying they can be better women than us

 

[DanaScully]

Women have to risk assess things every day. I bet most of us do it without even realising. Where will I park, how far will I need to walk, who is walking behind me, who is that outside my house, who is knocking at my door, is this repair man OK to let in while I'm home alone, etc etc.

A woman I know was chased by a group of men through our local park not so long ago and I haven't been able to bring myself to go there since.

TIMs will never know or be able to experience what women go through every single day. They may receive separate abuse for being trans but they'll never have an identical experience to women.