Anyone who disagrees with this, just read the totally unrelated threads on here, “sexist things you get told on a daily basis” and the even more disturbing “what’s the creepiest or scariest thing that’s ever happened to you?”. The latter basically being over 400 accounts of largely unreported, socially accepted and brushed off abuse and intimidation of everyday women. Real life women who regularly post here and have very different lives and backgrounds.
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I'm okay with people inventing ridiculous labels for themselves but it should not be forced on wider society.
I'm sorry but this is just too creepy for words. It's out and out grooming
www.cnn.com
'Pose' star Indya Moore just launched 'TranSanta' to send gifts to transgender youth | CNN
The actress wants to help ensure that every kid gets a gift this year.
www.cnn.com
“"Trans issues don't receive much visibility or attention unfortunately” < sorry, no, it’s all we hear about!I'm sorry but this is just too creepy for words. It's out and out grooming
'Pose' star Indya Moore just launched 'TranSanta' to send gifts to transgender youth | CNN
The actress wants to help ensure that every kid gets a gift this year.
I'm not that bothered by the word cis.
Words are complex things. Some LGBT plus people like the word queer. Others don't because of its history as a slur. Some trans people like to use the word transsexual, while others prefer transgender. Some women call themselves les, others prefer the word gay.
Some women will be happy to be called cis, some won't mind and some will dislike it. I think we just need to respect that.
I'm not massively seeing the problem with having a Christmas gift thing spearheaded by LGBT+ communities as long as the standard safe guarding any child Christmas gift scheme should have in place is in place.
Words are complex things. Some LGBT plus people like the word queer. Others don't because of its history as a slur. Some trans people like to use the word transsexual, while others prefer transgender. Some women call themselves les, others prefer the word gay.
Some women will be happy to be called cis, some won't mind and some will dislike it. I think we just need to respect that.
I'm not massively seeing the problem with having a Christmas gift thing spearheaded by LGBT+ communities as long as the standard safe guarding any child Christmas gift scheme should have in place is in place.
@Icing _on_ the_cake it's true there are various gifts to children organizations and yes they do Christmas gifts campaigns but bringing in a completely imaginary identity into this AND positioning kids against their families is grooming and manipulative. Kids (likely confused kids too) will ID as trans and write to them and get validation and presents. Pure grooming.
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So I am pretty sure the person setting this up is not advocating that the kids involved should split from their parents. The kids signing up have likely to have already gone through coming out, some form treatment, maybe some kind of social or medical transition. This present thing is hardly exactly going 'hey kids, wanna be trans and never speak to your parents again?' I very much doubt this will be the gateway thing for anyone - far more likely to be either genuine long-held body dysphoria, or anxiety/depression/trauma issues that've been self-diagnosed as trans by falling into a Reddit/YouTube/Tumblr echo-chamber.
These kids are vulnerable so appropriate safeguarding should definitely be in place - especially if a child admits suicidal thoughts or reveals they are subject to violence at home.
If you think this is grooming then I hope you are also shouting out about any christmas gift or holiday hamper scheme by religious organisations as grooming and preying on people in vulnerable situations.
The point of positioning kids against their families is also a difficult one. Some kids - including trans kids - will be growing up in unhealthy environments. While people being encouraged to turn against their families can be a sign of cultish behaviour, sometimes it's totally not - following several years of therapy I am in a no-contact situation with my mother. Sometimes distance from family is a healthy thing to have.
I’m not sure how I feel about it. Vulnerable children need to be shown love and have someone genuinely care about their welfare. I can imagine it’s very hard for families to navigate a child’s wish to be trans without capitulating to every demand in fear of losing their child. Hard for the child themselves with a desire to control their life and identity and receiving mixed messages.
But this makes me gag:-
“Right now, trans young people, particularly brown and black trans youth are under attack...”
Under attack from whom, exactly? It’s very emotive language. If I identified as a trans kid, that would make me fearful. If my parents were less than 100% supportive then they’re attacking me. And who is going to support me and save me? Ah! The group who is affirming my beliefs and giving me stuff! It’s EXTREMELY divisive to family units and cultish in my opinion. It feels like bribing children into activism.
But this makes me gag:-
“Right now, trans young people, particularly brown and black trans youth are under attack...”
Under attack from whom, exactly? It’s very emotive language. If I identified as a trans kid, that would make me fearful. If my parents were less than 100% supportive then they’re attacking me. And who is going to support me and save me? Ah! The group who is affirming my beliefs and giving me stuff! It’s EXTREMELY divisive to family units and cultish in my opinion. It feels like bribing children into activism.
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@Icing _on_ the_cake I don't just think it is grooming, it actually *is* grooming. Secondly, please don't assume what my other beliefs are. We're on the gender discussions thread and are discussing issues pertaining to gender.
It is grooming because it is reinforcing this awful ideology on kids. As for kids having 'transphobic' parents we all know that word to be utterly meaningless in a lot of cases. A concerned parent who is worried about their kids obsession with gender identity and wanting to identify as trans could be seen as 'transphobic' and "they're not accepting me for my true self" . I get what you're saying about no contact being the best thing in some cases but there is definitely an element of kids believing that their parents are not accepting them.
Recently I saw a TiM on Twitter who shared screenshots of text messages with their uncle. The TiM's uncle was concerned because they were selling fool pics for money. The text messages were normal concerned messages from a family member but the TiM shared the screenshots with a comment like "if my uncle cant accept me for who I am then they're not worth it."
It is grooming because it is reinforcing this awful ideology on kids. As for kids having 'transphobic' parents we all know that word to be utterly meaningless in a lot of cases. A concerned parent who is worried about their kids obsession with gender identity and wanting to identify as trans could be seen as 'transphobic' and "they're not accepting me for my true self" . I get what you're saying about no contact being the best thing in some cases but there is definitely an element of kids believing that their parents are not accepting them.
Recently I saw a TiM on Twitter who shared screenshots of text messages with their uncle. The TiM's uncle was concerned because they were selling fool pics for money. The text messages were normal concerned messages from a family member but the TiM shared the screenshots with a comment like "if my uncle cant accept me for who I am then they're not worth it."
Some people would argue that, yes.
Personally I believe that these 98% of children in the study found themselves on a medical conveyor belt that they couldn’t get off. Once they start puberty blockers they inevitably proceed to take cross sex hormones. It’s also what the Tavistock staff were telling them and their parents to do. This path was how they were going to fix themselves and fix their dysphoria.
Compare that with trans identifying kids who weren’t given the drugs. They overwhelming desist once they’re out of their teens.
Think for a moment - surely it’s too much of a coincidence to say the kids who took blockers must be truly trans, and the kids who didn’t, and desisted, must be not truly trans.
Also, how to do account for the massive increase in trans identifying kids over the last few years? Are more trans kids simply being born, or is it social contagion?
I'm not having a go at anyone's belief - I'm just saying that if it's ok for one group then you can't say it's not ok for another.
From the screenshot @Doc included its aimed at people who are already estranged rather than encouraging people to estrange. There is a difference between parents saying 'lets wait and see' or 'lets get you a therapist or see what the gender clinic say but let's be patient and careful and make sure we make all the right decisions.' and 'I'm throwing you out of my house' or 'I'm locking you up until you stop this trans bullsh*t.' I understand that some have conflated the two and those internet wormholes encourage conflating the two, but I am not. So what I was referring to above as 'transphobic families' was the latter interpretation rather than the former.
It doesn't look like the programme is encouraging family estrangement or encouraging continued family estrangement. It is simply about giving presents to people currently in a lonely situation. As I said, the programme ought to have safeguarding in place, but I don't see anything outright wrong about the concept, especially since plenty of organisations and groups already do this with no societal push back, and I doubt anyone becomes trans and stays identified as trans because of a transsanta gift.
More thought on the Tavistock’s (tweets copied and pasted for ease of reading, original tweets here: )
While it may not be actively encouraging estrangement try to look at it from the point of view of a troubled kid who feels at odds and who has concerned parents. They might keep internalizing the message that they're not accepted as they are.
A child will not have the maturity to realise that parents might be acting out of concern. They could think "why is this charity validating me but my parents don't". Thus encouraging a further rift. Anyway, it doesn't sit right with me
Totally agree with you @SqualorVictoria
It is irresponsible to tell these children that they are somehow in danger or being actively harmed by not being affirmed to the extent they want (or being told they should be). It seems a calculated move.
Some of them might be in danger, but I would agree that they could have phrased everything different. Something like:
'Christmas time is a difficult time of year for those who are homeless, isolated, living in care or estranged from their families. Show a trans/non-binary person that they are not alone in this time by giving to Trans Santa.'
But I don't think the original wording is made with conscious bad intentions and a lot of communications messaging around many causes is problematic. Just look at the big debates that have come up about Comic Relief and how the narratives they told for decades is now being criticised.
I think it's fair to criticise messaging - and I've seen some good arguments as to why Mermaids pushing suicide fear is really damaging. But I don't think the anything in this transanta thing is being done intentionally for nefarious purposes.
He makes a good point.
I'm sorry @Icing _on_ the_cake but IMO telling kids they're trans or 'non binary' and in danger is a problem. Adults are pushing this gender ideology on kids, it didn't fall out of the sky. We can't base the charity on what they didn't say or could have said better, we can only judge them on what they did say. As @Doc points out, it's cult like.
On a separate note, here is a good twitter thread.
On a separate note, here is a good twitter thread.
I agree, the person who set this up isn't directly advocating alienating children from their parents - but the narrative of #protecttranskids (which in in the instagram bio for this) and the other items shared on the account do have that effect.
The instagram account shares frankly alarmist suicide statistics and unsupported statements such as "In the UK, a court decision has led to trans youths across England and Wales having their health care cut off." That's not true. Health care entirely cut off??? To a U.S audience who doesn't understand the NHS this is very alarmist.
A lot of the posters are still living with their parents, and quite a few are as young as fifteen for sixteen, asking for binders or packers. A lot of them also say they haven't come out.
It's on Instagram. The parents likely don't know what the children are doing on there, taking money from strangers. I do think it's part of the echo chamber.
In all honestly, take away the trans aspect of this charity drive and there a number of young people reporting that they are unemployed or homeless - even a 19 year old who is doing sex work to eat. I'm absolutely fine with people donating to young people struggling with these issues, as so many do sadly (and many other charities support young people with this also) there's just an echo-chamber, secrecy aspect of this I don't like.
As a parent I find it horrifying. Kids asking strangers on the internet for binders and packers? These items are classed as underwear in my opinion. In what universe is it ok for strangers on the internet to buy underwear for minors? That’s before you even get into the fact that binders can be unsafe and cause all sorts of issues especially on the developing body, if the parent isn’t even aware the child is using them how can they help if any issues come up? Every parent should be disturbed by this.
Binders are also self harm
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