might have been me, one of the articles I linked was how in the US 3 women were murdered from dv.
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That’s a good point and I don’t think there’s much data to build a picture of what happens if a child “pauses” puberty and then decides to stop taking blockers (incidentally, are children ever “just” prescribed blockers or is it ALWAYS blockers and cross sex hormones? I get the impression that blockers alone is quite a rare medical path to be on?). I know the evidence put forward in the Keira Bell case was that once a dysphoric child starts taking the drugs, they are less likely to desist compared with dysphoric children who aren’t given drugs. And that makes perfect sense to me, it’s basically the sunken costs fallacy: “I started puberty blockers, I’m not developing like my peers, OK I have some doubts but I’m doing this now and can’t go back”.
Like I said, despite so much rhetoric that says puberty blockers are harmless little “pause” buttons that give a child “time to think”, I don’t think this is what really happens. Blockers are inevitably followed by cross sex hormones. I don’t think one happens without the other.
You’re right, the impact upon not going through puberty on brain function, IQ and emotional intelligence really isn’t spoken about enough.
Sigh.
People are not having an anti-trans circle jerk as you so nicely put it. All I read is post after post of people explaining they are NOT anti-trans at all. People are asking questions, valid ones at that and questioning things. Yet this makes them hateful, bigots, TERF (don’t even start me on that outrage)
My “stance” if it needs to be called out:-
Yes, trans people exist
Yes, trans people have the right to live as they please
Yes, trans people should be free from harm/violence
No, I do not support or condone violence towards trans (or anyone for that matter)
Yes, trans (genuine trans) should have legal rights to identify as opposite gender and I will recognise them as such.
No, I refuse to be called a CIS-woman. Stop that please if referring to/about me.
No, I do not agree with the removal of female only spaces - where any man can claim he’s trans and use our spaces
Yes, I recognise that genuine trans woman have rights to be in women’s spaces.
My fundamental issue is the expansion of everyone included under the trans umbrella. This includes some fetishist and questionable motivated men. Until the trans community and wider LBTQ+ communities have a shake up and start to denounce these fringe elements of the “trans” community then, unfortunately, more people will have concerns.
I put “trans” in quotes because I do not believe the likes of Jessica Yaniv is an actual trans woman or reflective of trans people. I think he does the trans group NO favours at all. Yet most TRAs stay silent on his predatory behaviour towards children.
Which doesn’t reflect trans. So why not publicly condemn him?!
Thank you for that. I'm getting a bit tired of the "you just hate trans people" narrative. Earlier today on another thread I post on, out of nowhere a poster went off on one about how gender critical feminists are using feminism to hide their 'anti trans' views and how gender critical feminists have 'odious' views. Another poster said the JK Rowling thread should be classed as hate speech as it's openly transphobic.
What even is transphobic? It's a meaningless description in most cases as its just not true. Is not accepting that self identified trans folk are women transphobic?Is being worried about the rise of kids being told they're trans and born in the wrong body transphobic?
I've said it I don't know how many times but this ideology is dangerous to women, children and genuine trans people.
What even is transphobic? It's a meaningless description in most cases as its just not true. Is not accepting that self identified trans folk are women transphobic?Is being worried about the rise of kids being told they're trans and born in the wrong body transphobic?
I've said it I don't know how many times but this ideology is dangerous to women, children and genuine trans people.
I go back and forth on the Jessica Yaniv situation, I think he's a pedalo and doubt his trans claim, but if society says that you can't do that, that anyone who says they're trans is trans, then should we really seperate the likes of him from said group? Just like some white guys can be pedos doesn't mean every white guy is..
having genital preferences is transphobic wether you're LGB or straight, peticularly if you're LGB..
Oh yes 'genital attracted individuals' are bigots
That’s my point though. He’s not trans. He’s using trans as a means to assert his power and dominance over women. And gain access to young girls. That is not something genuine, law abiding trans people do. However, the TRA community are silent on this matter. Why? Why not condemn him? In that example, I imagine majority of non-pedophile white males would condemn (at the very least) a fellow white male for being a pedophile?
Jessica Yanivtried to host an event for children, no parents allowed. Clothing optional. Wtf.
There is documented cases of him texting 12/13 year old girls asking them intimate questions about their vaginas.
He also repeatedly asks young girls / early teens advice on how he can deal with his period and use tampons.
Female or male, Jessica yaniv has NO need to use a tampon. And cannot get periods. He still has a fully functioning pen! If anyone argues this I swear it’ll be confirmation that the world is just too much for me.
jessica Yaniv and others like him are not trans. They are power obsessed, fetishist odd men. Who sadly are being protected by the trans community. Any who do speak out against him are called TERFS. I mean, how can a trans person be a TERF? Anyway!
Just done a google on this Jessica person. Seems they are at worst a predator and a weirdo and at best an attention and drama bleep.
The Guardian criticised them and also said that the story was being left too much to the right wing to use for their own agendas:
The Guardian criticised them and also said that the story was being left too much to the right wing to use for their own agendas:
just the headline lol yaniv's a dumbass not everyone is qualified to wax your balls you idiot
So there’s this documentary that came up on bbc iplayer called Lily: A Transgender Story. It’s not very long but follows Lily’s transition over the last 5 years, transitions at 15, starts blockers at 17, hormones at 18 and surgery at 20. Nothing too outrageous considering what we’ve seen happen to other trans kids.
A few things I find interesting:
• The dad really struggled when Lily was ‘Llyr’ because he wasn’t in to typical ‘boy things’ like helping around the farm and driving tractors. No doubt his disappointment is a driving factor on why Lily felt wrong living as a boy.
• Dad repeatedly calls Lily ‘Llyr’ but obviously feels bad about this. He mentions that it’s hard to change a habit after 18 years but will get there in the end. Thought it was good that the documentary showed this as I think it’s important to remember it’s hard for parents especially to suddenly stop calling your kid the name they’ve had since they were born.
• Lily is very active on social media. Says she first came across trans people on YouTube. Seems to thrive on the attention and validation she receives from social media and YouTube channel. Seems to me like Lily wasn’t getting the attention or acceptance at home so they sought it out on the internet. A sad but common theme with not just trans kids but kids & teens in general.
• Lily’s mannerisms are very overly feminine and immature. Guess at 20 no one is fully mature, hard to watch though at times as a woman myself
• Lily wants and gets full gender reassignment surgery and thinks getting surgery will make life easier because she won’t have to tuck and use restrictive underwear. I don’t think having to maintain an open wound for the rest of your life is easier than tucking tbh. After the surgery Lily seemed delighted, no real mention of pain or discomfort apart from being dosed up on pain killers.
• At the end of the documentary Lily has had full GRS, her boyfriend talks about Lily post surgery and said that since having the surgery she hasn’t had to worry about ‘silly things like the restrooms’. This comment rubbed me the wrong way especially coming from a man.
It’ll be interesting to see how Lily feels about things 25 years down the line. It was portrayed in the documentary like everything was going perfectly for her. She moved to the city, got a boyfriend, a job and finally the surgery. Overall I believe Lily just wants to be happy and I hope she finds that happiness.
I feel sad for these young people who feel they have to take such drastic steps to feel comfortable with themselves. With no adult guidance and YouTube and the rest of the internet in their back pocket, is it really surprising they end up down this medicalised path? Parents are often clueless and scared by the time they realise what’s going on and are led to believe affirmation is the only way to go.
There really is no going back once you go the whole hog and Kiera Bell is not an isolated case. My concerns don’t come from a place of hate but a place of concern not just for women and children’s safety but for these very young people who are taking huge risks to make these unnatural, irreversible changes to their bodies.
A few things I find interesting:
• The dad really struggled when Lily was ‘Llyr’ because he wasn’t in to typical ‘boy things’ like helping around the farm and driving tractors. No doubt his disappointment is a driving factor on why Lily felt wrong living as a boy.
• Dad repeatedly calls Lily ‘Llyr’ but obviously feels bad about this. He mentions that it’s hard to change a habit after 18 years but will get there in the end. Thought it was good that the documentary showed this as I think it’s important to remember it’s hard for parents especially to suddenly stop calling your kid the name they’ve had since they were born.
• Lily is very active on social media. Says she first came across trans people on YouTube. Seems to thrive on the attention and validation she receives from social media and YouTube channel. Seems to me like Lily wasn’t getting the attention or acceptance at home so they sought it out on the internet. A sad but common theme with not just trans kids but kids & teens in general.
• Lily’s mannerisms are very overly feminine and immature. Guess at 20 no one is fully mature, hard to watch though at times as a woman myself
• Lily wants and gets full gender reassignment surgery and thinks getting surgery will make life easier because she won’t have to tuck and use restrictive underwear. I don’t think having to maintain an open wound for the rest of your life is easier than tucking tbh. After the surgery Lily seemed delighted, no real mention of pain or discomfort apart from being dosed up on pain killers.
• At the end of the documentary Lily has had full GRS, her boyfriend talks about Lily post surgery and said that since having the surgery she hasn’t had to worry about ‘silly things like the restrooms’. This comment rubbed me the wrong way especially coming from a man.
It’ll be interesting to see how Lily feels about things 25 years down the line. It was portrayed in the documentary like everything was going perfectly for her. She moved to the city, got a boyfriend, a job and finally the surgery. Overall I believe Lily just wants to be happy and I hope she finds that happiness.
I feel sad for these young people who feel they have to take such drastic steps to feel comfortable with themselves. With no adult guidance and YouTube and the rest of the internet in their back pocket, is it really surprising they end up down this medicalised path? Parents are often clueless and scared by the time they realise what’s going on and are led to believe affirmation is the only way to go.
There really is no going back once you go the whole hog and Kiera Bell is not an isolated case. My concerns don’t come from a place of hate but a place of concern not just for women and children’s safety but for these very young people who are taking huge risks to make these unnatural, irreversible changes to their bodies.
i feel for concerned parents right now, in canada you can have your kid taken away.. i'm just floored
The majority of poster's myself included have called you out for making totally misleading statements and generally provided some figures to back this up. A recent example is the trans women are more likely to suffer violence than woman statement.
Rather than go away and come up with a counter argument we have the toys out of the bathwater and labelling us all anti-trans
I am not anti trans
I have a partner and a daughter who are both exceptionally capable woman. They are not "vulva people" or people with tina's as has been used by the NHS amongst other public funded bodies
I stay in a country that is trying to bring in a law around speech even in your own home. They already had to amend it to ensure libraries where not breaking the law by having certain books
I am a guy but no one label's me a pen haver or other such nonsense. If I ever went to the gym I would never be presented with a naked member of the opposite sex in the men's changing rooms. No one is trying to dismantle our freedoms or spaces we have fought for. The worst guys have is campaigns about bringing in women members to a golf club or a private members club.
So I will continue to counter false/misleading claims and discuss in a reasonably civilised tone gender issues.
From a very quick google there are a number of articles that talk about the rise in crimes in England/Wales against trans people. This one states that trans people are 'twice as likely' to be victims of crime as cisgender people. (Trans people twice as likely to be victims of crime in England and Wales | Society | The Guardian)
@Lava, I have provided sources like Fair Play to Women because they collate information and resources on this topic. They’re not creating information out of thin air.
On murders of trans people, perhaps refer to the Trans Murder Monitoring Project. https://transrespect.org/en/map/trans-murder-monitoring/?submap=tmm_2020
Every year the UNDOC does a study on Global Homicide. https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/global-study-on-homicide.html
One booklet is solely on gender-related violence toward women and girls. On page 10 of this document, 14 of the PDF, you will see the key findings:
https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/gsh/Booklet_5.pdf 87,000 women were murdered in 2017, most often by intimate partners or family members. According to the Trans Murder Monitoring Project, in the same year 325 Trans or gender-diverse people were murdered, 63% were sex workers, https://transrespect.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/TvT_TMM_TDoR2017_Infographics_EN.png
I don’t have a specific goal in sharing this information except to prove to you that it’s information that isn’t just available on websites with views you categorised as biased. Every murder was an abhorrent crime.
On murders of trans people, perhaps refer to the Trans Murder Monitoring Project. https://transrespect.org/en/map/trans-murder-monitoring/?submap=tmm_2020
Every year the UNDOC does a study on Global Homicide. https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/global-study-on-homicide.html
One booklet is solely on gender-related violence toward women and girls. On page 10 of this document, 14 of the PDF, you will see the key findings:
https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/gsh/Booklet_5.pdf 87,000 women were murdered in 2017, most often by intimate partners or family members. According to the Trans Murder Monitoring Project, in the same year 325 Trans or gender-diverse people were murdered, 63% were sex workers, https://transrespect.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/TvT_TMM_TDoR2017_Infographics_EN.png
I don’t have a specific goal in sharing this information except to prove to you that it’s information that isn’t just available on websites with views you categorised as biased. Every murder was an abhorrent crime.
I’ve had a look at the ONS data and it doesn’t specify what the circumstances were. Trans people are more likely to work in riskier professions, such as sex work, which makes them more vulnerable to crime. For what it’s worth, I think sex work should be banned and the soliciting of sex for money made illegal like the Nordic model. It is a industry that preys on the marginalised and vulnerable.
Crime in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics
Crime against households and adults, also including data on crime experienced by children, and crimes against businesses and society.
www.ons.gov.uk
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This is the headline to that "ONS figures show 28% of trans people experienced crime compared with 14% of cis people"
Now if you where to read that headlines you would be mistaken in believing that there was a huge increase in crimes against trans running into the 10.000s
In actual fact the article is based off a survey of people asking them about crime and it states " Estimates of the likelihood of being a victim of crime for those whose gender identity is different from their sex at birth (trans or transgender) are based on a small base size of 63 and are therefore subject to lower reliability".
I've just watched it. I was a little confused why the things that the Dad mentioned about farm work being boys things. Would have assumed any kid growing up on a farm would do a certain amount of help with animals, crops, etc etc. It probably says more about Lily's personality (prefers urban environment to rural) and the traditional beliefs of the dad than anything else.
I think with the way Lily's behaviour, it felt a lot like someone who isn't confident trying very hard to act like someone who is. That's probably to be expected if you've spent your life feeling uncomfortable in your body and in your environment.
I was amused by the description of Birmingham as 'The City' like it's NYC.
I'm sorry but Birmingham isn't glamorous.Social media, especially Instagram, can be very dangerous in terms of people developing mental health issues around looks and about feeling that your life isn't measuring up compared to others (because most things on there are a facade). I'd be a bit wary of becoming too dependent on social media to feel good about yourself.
Going in for the surgery alone must have been horrible. I had a day operation earlier this year and so glad I had it before COVID hit as I would have hated going in alone.
I wish the documentary had had a bit more footage from the previous years because I feel like most of it was 2019-2020 rather than the full 5 years. You just didn't get as full an impression of her journey as you would have if more of the earlier content had been included.
I hope this makes her happy and that she enjoys her life in Birmingham. However, Juicy Couture tracksuit needs to go back to 2003 where it belongs.
It’s always the same narrative isn’t it? Boy doesn’t like boy stuff/girl doesn’t like girl stuff - they must be trans!
It’s so regressive.
It’s so regressive.
I know it’s pretty bad form to quote yourself but I’m coming back with receipts, because I just saw this on Twitter - according to data from the Tavistock, all but one of the children studied (admittedly a small group, but that’s to be expected) moved onto cross sex hormones after commencing puberty blockers. Puberty blockers aren’t a harmless pause button but the first step towards cross sex hormones in 98% of cases.
The Tavistock argued that puberty blockers and cross sex hormones are not linked but that’s bull.
Tavistock puberty blocker study published after nine years
The study by the Tavistock gender clinic shows all but one child was also later given cross-sex hormones.
www.bbc.co.uk
Tulsi Gabbard introduces bill to ‘protect women’s sports’ based on biological sex. Be interesting to see how this goes.
called transphobic for doing so
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