Notice
Thread ordered by most liked posts - View normal thread.

SqualorVictoria

VIP Member
Feeling so angry about the HSE's decision to remove woman from cervical smears literature. Trans man is there but not woman. Why are they concerned with being "inclusive" to trans women as they don't have a cervix? Cervical cancer is something that kills women but language has to be adjusted because of the "feelings" of men. I'm so angry and upset and frustrated
 
  • Like
  • Angry
Reactions: 51
Oh I’m so sorry. I didn’t realise trans women’s feelings might be hurt if they can’t get a smear test or cervical cancer. It must be such an emotional topic to discuss what with the painful history of all the 0 trans women who have died of cervical cancer.
Biology is such a transphobe!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 32

2020two

Chatty Member
@Lava I certainly don't believe every trans person is trying to infiltrate private spaces but I do believe women and especially teenage girls should have access to their own private spaces. Thank you for being honest about the fact that you don't believe they deserve their own private spaces.

It's stories like below that are doing nothing to change my mind that women should have their own private spaces. And it's not a cherry picked example, it's common. Many, like you, believe women don't deserve private spaces and that it's transphobic or bigoted or prejudiced to say anything or complain
Sorry to interupt your discussion ladies! But this sends a shiver down my spine and stops me from being able to use such facilities. I can't even tell you the anxiety I felt in my chest reading that post. Why should I - a survivor of rape and domestic violence have to come face to face with someone's flacid penis somewhere I would naturally consider to be a female only safe space for me to get changed. My rape support advocate never prepared me for this shit 😢

Thought you might like to hear from someone who genuinley would not be able to emotionally handle that situation.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
  • Sad
Reactions: 27

CheshireLove

VIP Member
Well, as predicted, Tampax have gone full on female erasure

“People with periods”. Give me strength.

This is just woke signalling at its finest.

In a response to a comment saying Tampax aren’t inclusive of the trans community enough (because they use the word ‘girls’ in another ad..) Tampax say they’re working with Stonewall. What a surprise.

How dare they use the word ‘girls’ in an advert for tampons. /s

You’ve also got to love the phrase “people who bleed”. Because that’s all a period is right, a “bleed”. Not a specific biological function of the female reproductive system. Just a ‘bleed’. How reductive.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
  • Wow
Reactions: 26

CheshireLove

VIP Member
Adding to what others have said, I don’t like the term ‘cisgender’ because it supposedly means being ‘comfortable with your gender identity’. I wouldn’t say I’m ‘comfortable’ with my gender. I don’t feel I really have a ‘gender’. I just know I am a woman. I know I am female and my life is shaped around that experience, not because of a ‘gender identity’. It’s so rude to be called something that imposes an identity on me that I don’t have have or agree with. I am a woman. That’s it. I don’t ‘identify’ as anything.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 26

Squirrelfriend

Chatty Member
Feeling so angry about the HSE's decision to remove woman from cervical smears literature. Trans man is there but not woman. Why are they concerned with being "inclusive" to trans women as they don't have a cervix? Cervical cancer is something that kills women but language has to be adjusted because of the "feelings" of men. I'm so angry and upset and frustrated
It’s utterly ridiculous , trying so hard to be inclusive it excludes the very people it exists for .
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 25

SqualorVictoria

VIP Member
It’s utterly ridiculous , trying so hard to be inclusive it excludes the vary people it exists for .
Not to mention that Ireland faced a huge cervical screening scandal recently. But hey let's pander to men because some dick in a dress might get upset at the use of the word woman. Boo fucking hoo

Also here's a handy guide to describe women who refer to themselves as cis women
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: 25

emmer_moans

VIP Member
I think my main concern is not that transgender people exist but the dangerous identity poltics occurring where women are finding that the word woman, mother, female etc are being erased in the name of inclusivity and yet men still keep their identities, language etc without any push back. Any woman who says "hang on a minute, I am a woman, not a 'cervix haver', I am a breastfeeding mother, not a 'chest feeder'" are becoming increasingly dismissed as hateful, and told to shut up.

There should be ways to be respectful and inclusive of trans people and personally I think that should be third spaces in terms of toilets, healthcare settings that are sensitive to sex characteristics such as maternity wards, obgyn clinics, rape crisis centres, womens swimming sessions etc, and also by including/acknowledging trans people ALONGSIDE women in wording in literature, for example, cervical smear invitations should be explained as a routine service for women, AND people with cervixes, not just rebranded to 'people with cervixes'. When you try to include people, it shouldn't be to the detriment of a larger majority. It is offensive, imo, to expect all women to be okay with their identity being erased.

I also don't agree that people should be irreversibly lopping off or grafting on body parts when they are 13. I understand some people are dysphoric but when I was 13 I still half believed in Santa, I only just understood what a uterus was, and was only just getting to hear about the birds and the bees at school. It's definitely not an age to make a decision to take puberty blockers. Sure, transition as an adult, but maiming onself physically at a prepubescent age just strikes me as harmful, and children should be protected from that until they are truly cognicient of the consequences in balance to the perceived benefits. Also especially as we hear so many dysphoric girls are also autistic or have other mental health considerations like depersonisation that needs appropriate care and time to be supported. Who is to say they should undergo a sex change so young when it is very plausible that they have social difficulties and are learning to navigate themselves in the world? Why is a sex transition the definite solution to their difficulty? These people deserve proper time and support to come to that conclusion themselves without peer pressure or immediate affirmation.

I've said countless times in these threads it is not in my nature to hate anyone wilfully, but I also refuse to accept the absolute mysogyny facing women in this gender identity storm. Sometimes it hurts me to be perceived as on the "bad" side but I know in my heart if I was to turn my back on womens' sex based protections then I would be a traitor to myself. Just my opinion.

In an ideal world, we would recognise that there are adult human females, adult human males and adult human people who do not identify with M or F. All should have a right to a happy life. All should have a right to a life where they are not discriminated against my a patriarchy. One day hopefully trans people can exist without fear of violence, but so should all females (and males). If TRAs we see on social media stopped being so aggressive in taking over the identity of women, and respected womens' safe spaces, then perhaps trans people might find more people are willing to ensure they get what they need too, ALONGSIDE us.

Why can't TRAs in general respect women rather than try to change them?

At the end of the day I am just a scared woman wondering if in 10 years time I can still call myself a woman, or call myself a mother without someone calling me a b*itch for not saying 'birth giver', or whether my religious friends can carry on going to Tuesday Ladies swim night because they don't wish to swim with men, or whether young girls can go to school loos without some boys using self iD as a fun excuse to mess about. It seems so easy for that right to be abused for a laugh at that age.

I appreciate in an ideal world it's nice to say TWAW but in reality, saying TWAW causes a lot of confusion and infringes upon sex based rights of a lot of vulnerable women, imo.

I see so many women throw other women under the bus on this issue because they are personally comfortable with TWAW, but I say, when that statement is made, who is thinking of the elderly who have lived their whole lives fighting against mysogyny, and need ladies toilets in public places because they feel vulnerable? Who is thinking of some little girls who might grow up with persuasive friends and family who try to influence perception of their own sexual and gender identities? Who is thinking of the millions of women in countries where women are treated as barely second class citizens and would find the very few protections they have being taken away from them in the name of gender identities? Who is thinking of the women who are on waiting lists of months and months for smears or obgyn ops, worrying about conditions they are experiencing because a trans identifed 'woman' insists on having access to such tests when they don't have the requisite body parts? I appreciate this might be a very small minority but with growing entitlement, who knows how many waiting lists grow, to pander to feelings?! Who is thinking of the women who don't want to discuss intimate female anatomical concerns with a GP who is either a man, or a trans identifed woman, because inately, a woman might feel more comfortable talking and being examined by a woman?

How far does TWAW go? Are women not allowed to raise awareness and money for ovarian cancer charities, for example because TWAW might feel left out? How can a man be female if they don't have the requisite body part? Gender and sex therefore are different things. A man can dress. Like a woman but is not physically a woman.

I could go on but there are so many sex (antomical, science) based reasons why many people may feel intimidated by the idea of safe spaces being shared by trans identified women. Some religious, some social, some medical or sexual. Why should women be called TERFs for wanting to keep what our mothers have fought so hard for the past 200 years? Men have been protected for millenia, whereas women have only really been somewhat respected and protected the past 200. I just can't accept that being erased now. It just feels too much like "be a dear and just let it happen", "be a dear, don't make a fuss". 😥

I know myself and know it would break me to go around IRL telling trans people hateful things, I'm a nice person and care too much sometimes about being 'good'. However it is possible that most people that might be called TERFs are just people who want to be respected as women.

Maybe one day we'll all be cyborgs with circuit boards and none of this will matter, but until then, whilst society penalises me systematically for being female I will continue to speak up to keep what we already have.

TLDR it is possible to be wary of the erosion of womens sex based rights whilst not actually hating people. We are not all bigots.
This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, I just feel so upset about it all. I feel so gaslit by the 'TERF' retort that so many sling at women but not men. 🙁
 
  • Heart
  • Like
Reactions: 24

Glortard

VIP Member
How come anyone presenting an even vaguely pro-trans rights argument is expected to present fully cited peer reviewed research to back up their opinions when anti-trans opinions can be presented without evidence or backed up by extremely biased sources like Trans Crimes and Fair Play for Women?

I've been called insane and a conspiracy theorist for attempting to have a nuanced discussion. The title 'gender discussions' is pretty misleading when the majority of posters in this thread seem set on having an anti-trans circle jerk.
The majority of poster's myself included have called you out for making totally misleading statements and generally provided some figures to back this up. A recent example is the trans women are more likely to suffer violence than woman statement.

Rather than go away and come up with a counter argument we have the toys out of the bathwater and labelling us all anti-trans

I am not anti trans

I have a partner and a daughter who are both exceptionally capable woman. They are not "vulva people" or people with vagina's as has been used by the NHS amongst other public funded bodies

I stay in a country that is trying to bring in a law around speech even in your own home. They already had to amend it to ensure libraries where not breaking the law by having certain books

I am a guy but no one label's me a penis haver or other such nonsense. If I ever went to the gym I would never be presented with a naked member of the opposite sex in the men's changing rooms. No one is trying to dismantle our freedoms or spaces we have fought for. The worst guys have is campaigns about bringing in women members to a golf club or a private members club.

So I will continue to counter false/misleading claims and discuss in a reasonably civilised tone gender issues.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 23

IndominusRex

VIP Member
Cis is 100% about control and patriarchy. It’s another hoop for us to jump through. And one that says we’re doing things wrong if we don’t adhere to certain standards. I hate it.

Also this idea that we’re all comfortable in our bodies is such bullshit. Women are shamed no matter how we look and 1/3 of us have been sexually abused or assaulted. Again it’s such a male bullshit notion of imaginary female privilege.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 22

Gemgemgemgem

Well-known member
This will probably be marked as hate speech or something but blah, I'm going to spout my opinion while I'm still allowed. I've just found this thread and will be sitting down to read most of it shortly.
I'm not transphobic. Each to their own, be happy live your lives. But when it effects other people's lives that is when things go too far.

I feel that men have always had their patriarchal power over women. As soon as women became (almost) equal to men in terms of power, they go and take our 'womanhood' too. It feels like another way of asserting their power over us.
They have grown up in this world with male privilege and it shows. They will never ever totally understand what it is to be a woman. Why pretend? Why not form a whole new gender? What's wrong with being trans?

I'm sick of companies and charities being 'woke' and conforming to this new ideology which appears to want to eradicate naturally born vaginas. I'm sick of entering a woman's toilet with my daughters to have men in there. I'm sick that at a breastfeeding support group trans men are allowed with their dolls to get feeding support. The groups exist to help the baby and the mother with feeding. Women were leaving the groups with their baby to get formula to feed their baby because they didn't get adequate support or feel like they could receive help due to feeling vulnerable. The group failed because they felt the need to confirm to this new movement to keep a group of entitled people happy.

IF these trans people really did know what it felt to be a woman they would NOT go to spaces or services which they do NOT need to attend. There's zero reason why a trans person should need to attend a breastfeeding support class. They don't have the bleeding nipples or the screaming baby or a baby that needs help with nutrition... What is next? I'm guessing birthing suites will have beds taken so they can pretend to give birth while a real woman in labour is brushed aside because the NHS want to send a message that they accept anyone can give birth.....except real pregnant women obviously.

Anyway sorry that was so long.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
  • Wow
Reactions: 22
So services for women can’t present themselves as services for women in case those who don’t want to be women get offended and those who do want to be women feel left out?
Jesus fucking Christ!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 22

SqualorVictoria

VIP Member
It really is. I for one am grateful pronouns exists. Pronouns in the bio serve as a handy indicator that I'm not likely to have a reasonable conversation with that person
 
  • Like
  • Haha
  • Heart
Reactions: 22

SqualorVictoria

VIP Member
There already is a word for someone that's not trans and that is woman. (Or man)

Cis reduces women to subcategories of our own sex and is totally and utterly unnecessary.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 22

jewelkitty

Chatty Member
Finally a grown up has entered the chat!!!


Asked if some members of the trans community may feel excluded, he said: "I think that some certainly will, but it's virtually impossible to keep everybody happy.

"But the important thing, as I say, to try and maximise the screening for the prevention of cancer - and in that context the use of the word 'woman' is the most appropriate".

🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 22

Mycuppatea

Well-known member
I feel like it's because no one has any issue with intersex people so they latch on to them and use them as their trojan horse

Like how TRAs passed self-id in Ireland whilst everyone was distracted with the marriage equality referendum
Plenty of people do have a problem with intersex people if they look different. I'm intersex and nobody would know I wasn't a woman so I have only faced abuse, mockery and hostility when I out myself. But other people who display their mixed characteristics as part of their intersex condition do face abuse and stigma just for existing, and all of us intersex people face a lot of medical mistreatment. It is always baffling to me that so many trans people are so keen to be intersex when it is a pretty crappy way to be born and live.
 
  • Heart
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 22

Gemgemgemgem

Well-known member
I hate we are labelled as ignorant and hateful because we are a subcategory of our birth sex, have to be accepting about having our identities and rights stripped from us. Erm surely it's more ignorant to barge in with male privilege, identify as a woman yet not fully take on the role of a woman. I bet none are happy to take a pay cut at work to align with the gender pay difference.
I've seen online various comments from women who have husband's in transition. The trans partner still works, comes home and expects to be waited on by the naturally born woman. Usually spending their spare time playing with clothes and makeup instead of chores. I feel some take certain aspects of being a women yet ignore the less appealing parts.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 21