Gender Discussion #8

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New to this thread. 👋

I went to school with a girl who recently had a mastectomy and transitioned to a man. Despite the mastectomy and changing their name and pronouns, said person still largely presents as a woman, wearing makeup, dresses, etc. This is apparently because they are defying gender conventions and stereotypes. I really try to understand, but it's so confusing to me.

Something that I struggle with is why you would transition because you feel like you're the wrong gender. What does gender feel like? Surely it's just unhelpful gender stereotypes to believe that men feel/behave like XYZ and women feel/behave like XYZ? Wouldn't it benefit all of us if instead of transitioning, people started challenging gender stereotypes? Sometimes I feel as if trans people are living out (grossly offensive and crude) stereotypes of what they think it means to be a man/woman. When I ask these types of questions to genuinely try and understand this issue better, I get accused of being transphobic (by non-trans people, I must point out).

The same goes for being non-binary. Can't we all just agree that gender is a social construct and stop trying to label people?

I don't understand how it's accepted and not questioned when people choose to live their lives as a different gender to the sex they were born with, yet if anyone did the same regarding race (Rachel Doezel) they would be labeled as a flaming racist. Gender and race are both social constructs - surely if one is interchangeable the other should be too?!
 
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Sorry but can children not just be left to colour in animals, cartoon characters, etc. Why does everything have to be related to gender and gender issues 😫

View attachment 588388View attachment 588389
Exactly
Absolutely tragic.

I assume those are ab implants?
They must be, they don’t sit right, also compared to the thin arms and legs I’m not convinced they were achieved by pumping weights in a gym or doing crunches, else the arms would be muscly too :(. I think Page has not been eating properly, possibly to get rid of feminine curves on the legs? I really can see this spiraling for her over the next few years, she looks miserable most of the time :(.
 
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I agree, the muscles don't match the arms and legs. And it takes time to build abs and I wouldn't have thought elliot would have had the time to do it given that they have had to recover from the mastectomy recently.
 
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Those abs are definitely surgically constructed. Recovering from a double mastectomy would prevent RP from working out for months, at any rate.

The message is clear: your female body is something to be rejected.
Case in point:

6ECAD3AA-8082-4A51-A3CC-DC7C3E7869A4.jpeg


The surgeons who mutilate young autistic girls should be struck off.

Did anyone else see the tweets about genital nullification last week? It’s similar to this surgery, but instead of removing breasts and nipples it removes all trace of genitals. Of course I had to look at some photos 🤢 The result is exactly like type III female genital mutilation. So on the one hand we have girls forcibly mutilated across the globe, and on the other we have adult women being allowed to choose it for themselves. These surgeons are a disgrace to the profession.
 
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This has maybe been posted here before, sorry!



Of course a 'genderless' fairy godmother is played by a man 🙄
 
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Didn’t realise ab impants were a thing but shouldn’t be surprised these days, slightly ot but I am so tired of humans feeling the need to artificially ‘enhance’ parts of their bodies. What ever happened to self acceptance? Genuine self acceptance, not “ill accept myself once I have x cosmetic surgery”. We are not Lego pieces you can’t just chop and change in the name of vanity with no consequences.

Ep looks like a teenage boy who has been doing tonnes of crunches but skipped leg and arm day. Also she may be able to look ‘manly’ when it’s pictures of just herself but stick her next to someone like Dwayne Johnson or even Kevin Hart who is considerably smaller than DJ, and the difference would be stark and obvious.
 
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Did anyone else see the tweets about genital nullification last week? It’s similar to this surgery, but instead of removing breasts and nipples it removes all trace of genitals. Of course I had to look at some photos 🤢 The result is exactly like type III female genital mutilation. So on the one hand we have girls forcibly mutilated across the globe, and on the other we have adult women being allowed to choose it for themselves. These surgeons are a disgrace to the profession.
I feel physically sick, how can any surgeon agree to remove someone's penis and leave them with a catheter without a medical need. It is not ethical at all.
 
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I feel physically sick, how can any surgeon agree to remove someone's penis and leave them with a catheter without a medical need. It is not ethical at all.
Dread to think what kind of health implications this could have for the future
 
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Quite a few comments saying the abs don’t match the rest of the physique.
Trans actor Elliot Page shows off abs in his first pair of swim trunks
Sorry - it didn’t link properly. It’s this article
I’ve seen a few men who are quite slim with muscles like this. But depending on when they had top surgery I would have thought they might have lost some definition whilst a recovering?
 
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God, I feel so sad for Page. Those abs look fake as duck. Her legs and arms are far too thin; she doesn’t look healthy.


Interesting opinion piece in The Daily Telegraph today regarding the European Human Rights commission cutting ties with Stonewall

Here’s an archived link because the piece is behind a paywall. 😊
 
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I think the Ellen Page thing is getting quite grotesque to watch to be honest? Ok, big deal, they're trans...why do we need a news article every time they have something else done to their body? It seems a weird mix of narcissism (if they really want these articles done about them) but also exploitative because she really doesn't look well at all. If trans people want being trans/having all this surgery etc to be normal, why do we need news articles about it every time it happens to someone famous? In the same way that I don't understand why someone coming out as gay is 'news' these days, the best way to normalise something seems to be to stop making a huge song and dance about it every time it happens
 
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I just can't understand why people can't see themselves as either male or female without mutilation. We are constantly told to accept that your biological anatomy does not make you male or female, by the same people who choose to have surgery to alter said anatomy because it doesn't meet the gender they believe themselves to be. Surely this is immensely hypocritical and just perpetuating the stereotypes you insist shouldn't exist?

I find it upsetting that people can watch something like EP's story and think what they are putting themselves through is a positive and healthy thing. Surely if EP believes themselves to be male, we should be promoting a way for them to live their truth without needing to mutilate their body. To me, EP is just highlighting gender does indeed exist if they feel they need to alter their body to prove to the world they are indeed male.

If I painted myself black it wouldn't make me African would it? No, I would just be accused of being incredibly racist and blackfishing. So why does chopping your breasts off make you a woman? Does that mean the trans individuals who don't remove their breasts aren't women? I just can't wrap my head around all of it. If everyone can choose to define male and female differently, how can anyone truly be male or female because a general consensus wouldn't exist.
 
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I just can't understand why people can't see themselves as either male or female without mutilation. We are constantly told to accept that your biological anatomy does not make you male or female, by the same people who choose to have surgery to alter said anatomy because it doesn't meet the gender they believe themselves to be. Surely this is immensely hypocritical and just perpetuating the stereotypes you insist shouldn't exist?

I find it upsetting that people can watch something like EP's story and think what they are putting themselves through is a positive and healthy thing. Surely if EP believes themselves to be male, we should be promoting a way for them to live their truth without needing to mutilate their body. To me, EP is just highlighting gender does indeed exist if they feel they need to alter their body to prove to the world they are indeed male.

If I painted myself black it wouldn't make me African would it? No, I would just be accused of being incredibly racist and blackfishing. So why does chopping your breasts off make you a woman? Does that mean the trans individuals who don't remove their breasts aren't women? I just can't wrap my head around all of it. If everyone can choose to define male and female differently, how can anyone truly be male or female because a general consensus wouldn't exist.
I echo your points exactly.

My MIL had to undergo a radical mastectomy and hysterectomy. It doesn't make her less of a woman.
 
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I think the Ellen Page thing is getting quite grotesque to watch to be honest? Ok, big deal, they're trans...why do we need a news article every time they have something else done to their body? It seems a weird mix of narcissism (if they really want these articles done about them) but also exploitative because she really doesn't look well at all. If trans people want being trans/having all this surgery etc to be normal, why do we need news articles about it every time it happens to someone famous? In the same way that I don't understand why someone coming out as gay is 'news' these days, the best way to normalise something seems to be to stop making a huge song and dance about it every time it happens
And I’ve noticed the new photos of interviews always coincide with a detrans story. Keira bell. Then the other night there was a show on in America about detransotioners and Ellen pops up again.
 
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