Gender Discussion #8

[jackolantern]

I know that I will absolutely be come at with pitchforks for saying it, but we move... does the fact that there are people out there willing to have surgery to *remove* their genitalia and fashion it into a permanently open wound, not show that the gender issue is indeed a serious mental health crisis? Like others have said, if gender were indeed a non-entity, why would the surgery even be on the cards? Why would men want to become women and women want to become men, if there was no such thing as either? What is essentially happening now is a trans woman can be identified as a woman, but biological women have to be seen as "people with vaginas" because otherwise they are transphobic. I do not understand how we now live in a society where mental health is such a prevalant issue, yet when it comes to gender, we aren't allowed to say there's a link, we instead have to say people are born into the wrong body. Even that in itself sounds absurd. I honestly think the very vast majority of people feel the same, they are just too bloody scared to be cancelled by the woke brigade.

I don't give a fuck how you identify, what you wear, who you love. You do you. The issues are coming from the fact that trans or non-binary rights are now ascending that of non-trans/binary people whereby we can be visciously scrutinised for not being psychic and able to know how someone has chosen to identify themselves. If I look at a biological man and see a biological man, how is that any different to looking at a car and seeing a car? How the hell am I supposed to know the car wants to be referred to as a jumbo jet? If you ask me respectfully to address you in a different manner, then of bloody course I will. But if you aggressively tell me to conform to your mental illness because otherwise I'm the devil incarnate, then that's the issue. This attitude is actually causing far more animosity toward the community than actually ever existed.

Women have been trodden on by men for eons and now that we are finally getting some rights back, we are reduced to such a level where we aren't even allowed to be called women anymore. Oh and, again, from biological males. What a world we live in.

The madness of it all is no amount of surgery or hormones or telling yourself till you are blue in the face that you are the opposite sex, will ever actually make you the opposite sex. Wouldn't it be hugely more beneficial for your wellbeing to get mental health support to deal with that, than chopping your parts up and being passive aggressive with everyone? Why have we moved away from the fact that gender DOESN'T have to identify you, be feminine, be masculine, heck be both! Noone cares. For a community so against labels they are so insistent on giving them to themselves.

 

[2020two]

The last one actually raises a great point - if women can have penises and men can have a vagina then why do people need to have complex surgery to change gender?

I got banned from a Reddit page last night for answering someone's question that yes they can surgically create a penis, but no it won't be fertile and able to get someone pregnant with semen. BANNED for misinformation.

They are banning facts no wonder teenagers are losing the plot.

 

[judgejohndeed]

I really could not care less about non binary. So basically, Demi is going to continue to present her appearance in exactly the same way, presumably behave the way she always has, except will now be yelling at anyone who calls her she etc. Who cares then? What has changed for you? I believe that people experience gender dysphoria, but I don’t believe in non binary. By default, anyone who has a sufficiently busy life that they don’t have time to sit around thinking about themselves all day would be non binary. I suggest these people find a hobby or start some charity work.

 

[rosemarina]

Started training for my new job this week. It's civil service. Day 3 and before I've even learned how to use the work systems I today have done equality and diversity training, including what to do if Steve decides he's now Stephanie and wants to use the ladies toilet - apparently I just have to grin and bear it as if Steve identifies as Stephanie then he's allowed to and if anyone questions it they will have to undergo further equality training!! Thank god for working from home!!

You have a right to single-sex spaces under the Equality Act 2010. I’m going through this row with my employer right now.

 

[AlanBanan]

This is why i have to do the crazy thing each time when speaking to a new person on a dating app and have to ask them whether they’re trans or not, if they refuse to answer it. I will just stop talking to them and assume they’re trans. If they say yes I will just tell them it isn’t what I am into and I respect them and if they say no I am happy as Larry.

Also, if they hit me. It would be the last thing they’d do. They wouldn’t be writing posts online about hitting me. I’d be in front of a judge pleading guilty for murder.

 

[Aye Up]

Like some others, recently my workplace has created a mandatory training module on diversity and being an ally........it covered the spectrum of identities shall we say and basically forces you to sign a pledge that you will be an ally........

I genuinely fail to see where I fit in this world right now. People have their right to identify how they feel, I believe in individual liberty and choice. But I find as someone who just wants to go to work to actually work, that isn't enough anymore and I have to sign up to the latest social or political cause. Its exhausting and I feel affinity with those who have mentioned this previously. I don't want to be idenfitied as anything in work other than being a compentent and considerate individual.

I just feel this is a one way train at the moment that is going to lead to a massive wreckage in a number of years time.

 

[Falkor]

Sorry, what...??

Absolutely not a fetish, no...

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Just read this article about a trans man not being called to their smear because they are registered as male at their gp.

Not to sound callous, but what did they expect? GP surgeries are busy enough without double checking that a patient is actually the sex they have written down on their records. They don’t give a stuff about your gender identity beyond what they medically need to know. Should have just left it as female, since in this context it would clearly be referring to biological sex, and put a note in their file about their pronouns. But no, they have to go changing their medical records, making them inaccurate so they feel validated. Well this is a consequence of that validation, don’t go fiddling around with important records that could ultimately save your life in the name of ‘gender’, it’s not rocket science.

There’s another trans man in the article who was called for their smear because they are registered as female with their gp. Doesn’t this go to show that no matter how you identify, no matter how manly you feel, you will always remain biologically female. You can chop your tits off, but your cervix doesn’t just magically vanish because you identify as a man.

 

[Penelope Strawberry]

New to this thread.

I went to school with a girl who recently had a mastectomy and transitioned to a man. Despite the mastectomy and changing their name and pronouns, said person still largely presents as a woman, wearing makeup, dresses, etc. This is apparently because they are defying gender conventions and stereotypes. I really try to understand, but it's so confusing to me.

Something that I struggle with is why you would transition because you feel like you're the wrong gender. What does gender feel like? Surely it's just unhelpful gender stereotypes to believe that men feel/behave like XYZ and women feel/behave like XYZ? Wouldn't it benefit all of us if instead of transitioning, people started challenging gender stereotypes? Sometimes I feel as if trans people are living out (grossly offensive and crude) stereotypes of what they think it means to be a man/woman. When I ask these types of questions to genuinely try and understand this issue better, I get accused of being transphobic (by non-trans people, I must point out).

The same goes for being non-binary. Can't we all just agree that gender is a social construct and stop trying to label people?

I don't understand how it's accepted and not questioned when people choose to live their lives as a different gender to the sex they were born with, yet if anyone did the same regarding race (Rachel Doezel) they would be labeled as a flaming racist. Gender and race are both social constructs - surely if one is interchangeable the other should be too?!

 

[Harrybosch]

Again, another 2am thought was of hospital wards. I’m afraid there will be a time when men will be allowed on the same ward as women, in a place where everyone is at their most vulnerable. It terrifies me to think I could be admitted into hospital one day and be put next to a man - I’m not saying all men have bad intentions of course not, but how I meant to know that particular man has good ones straight off the bat? I would worry a lot, I’m probably being really silly but I personally, would be constantly on edge and no doubt it would delay my recovery.

Happened to my sister after having a traumatic birth. She was in a big ward. Men weren't supposed to be there overnight, so her partner went home. Other men didn't, more came and set up camp next to their partners' beds. My sister complained, nothing was done. Long story short, she ended up with post partum psychosis which was put down to the fact she had an awful birth and virtually no sleep on this ward for five days and nights because she couldn't relax with all the men around. I'm still furious typing this. She was failed so badly and all she wanted was a male-free space whilst bed bound, bleeding and vulnerable with a newborn.

Self-ID and no single sex spaces legitimise this type of thing.

 

[2020two]

How is it we've gone from barely any trans people, to them dominating every single space/conversation in a couple of years?

 

[judgejohndeed]

I'm seeing TRAs gloating over Phoenix Netts' killer turning out to be a real woman

Yet if ever you needed proof that transwomen are not women this must be possibly the best example, because actual women wouldn't be gloating over the fact that a woman has been violently murdered, regardless of who did it.

 

[LaLa247]

Just an aside, I absolutely despise the term ‘girldick’ apart from the obvious why do they have to use ‘girl’ it feels very very icky to me.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

It's creepy but if you do stuff like this you are going to attract creeps. Only Fans is literally her selling nudes to men to masturbate over.

I'm not into victim blaming but she isn't a victim here. She has willingly signed up to shill her nudes for cash.

This is why I find the sex work is work crowd infuriating. Allowing themselves to be objectified like that for money and then complaining about being objectified

 

[Very traditional]

Started training for my new job this week. It's civil service. Day 3 and before I've even learned how to use the work systems I today have done equality and diversity training, including what to do if Steve decides he's now Stephanie and wants to use the ladies toilet - apparently I just have to grin and bear it as if Steve identifies as Stephanie then he's allowed to and if anyone questions it they will have to undergo further equality training!! Thank god for working from home!!

 

[Platformcrocs]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

Can't wait to wish my Mum a Happy Birthing People's Day next mother's day

"it's not just cis gender women that can get pregnant"

But... It pretty much is. Let's be realistic. I've not seen any stats on this but would love to know how many pregnancies trans men represent. Women get pregnant. Not men.

 

[jewelkitty]

Not sure why the link breaks when I try to share it here but screenshots from the latest post of that Instagram account that was discussed here the other day

Yesss you beautiful lady, PREACH!!!

 

[judgejohndeed]

This is why i have to do the crazy thing each time when speaking to a new person on a dating app and have to ask them whether they’re trans or not, if they refuse to answer it. I will just stop talking to them and assume they’re trans. If they say yes I will just tell them it isn’t what I am into and I respect them and if they say no I am happy as Larry.

Also, if they hit me. It would be the last thing they’d do. They wouldn’t be writing posts online about hitting me. I’d be in front of a judge pleading guilty for murder.

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Wow. 'Whose fault was it that she assumed i had a vagina' um yours, because you called yourself a lesbian.
This kind of thing is exactly why next election I will be voting for whoever is doing the most to prevent this shit. I'm sick of it. In my opinion this is a human rights catastrophe waiting to happen. If self ID is enshrined in law, it won't be reversed certainly in our lifetime. Regardless of other policies, I absolutely cannot vote for this.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

On Twitter a few weeks ago I was involved in a discussion about mixed sex bathrooms in schools in Ireland. An extremely nasty TRA replied and the nastiness and vitriol took my breath away. We were having a back and forth discussion and I was civil but then she said she hopes I never have kids, hopefully my transphobia will fade away with me and my generation and younger people like her are far more tolerant (I have nothing about my age on my profile and my profile pic is not of me). She kept saying transwomen are women but I didn't even mention transwomen in the discussion about mixed sex bathrooms in schools. I didn't post about it here at the time as the kids comment was quite upsetting but I can look back and laugh at how the 'tolerant' side is anything but

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

Do you know what? An honest confession. When I first joined Tattle and read this thread, I was taken aback at how such a cool forum was so transphobic. Once I started reading and thinking, it occurred to me that the reason I thought like that is because we are all BRAINWASHED into this transphobia nonsense. Honestly, society is going to hell in a handcart.