Gender Discussion #7

[AnderbeauJohnson]

I wonder why they don’t get together and form an alliance (like the lgb alliance). Old school transsexuals who have gender dysphoria, understand biological sex and the realities of it. Transgender ideology is so bad for them and will back fire one day. And the old school ones will be left to pick up the pieces when the others revert and the allies move on

The closest thing I can think of is Scott Newgent's TReVoices which is him and a group of fellow transpeople who are trying to get people to realise how dangerous transitioning children can be:

Trans Man Scott Newgent & Others Fighting To Stop Childhood Medical Transition

Learn the truth about medical transitioning and why it's no place for a child. Uncover studies, countless articles written by transgender adults and resources needed to understand what medical transition does, what it does not do and why it's a decision for adults only. Lift the veil and...

www.trevoices.com

 

[CheshireLove]

Just the phrase “trans kids healthcare” turn my stomach because you know they are actually talking about stopping these kids physically and mentally developing, risking their health - and bone health in particular - and telling them they are saving them from going through “the wrong puberty”. There is no “wrong” puberty.

So many young girls would love to not go through the changes that happen in puberty and the reaction and objectification of us as it happens. No wonder young women are identifying as “trans”, trying to get out of the objectification of women and girls.

 

[DanaScully]

This image came to mind after reading some recent posts on this thread. Credit to @sallou20 on Twitter. I think it says it all!

 

[Winthropp Tuesday]

It's almost as if 'transitioning' doesn't make someone happier? This is frightening, it's honestly building some young men up to serial killer levels of self hate.

First post on this thread after reading and basically nodding along with all of you for weeks... this post reminded me of an article I’d read by Hari Nef, that they’d written for GQ magazine about the ‘conflicting emotions’ on now passing as cis after transitioning. I’d always admired Hari, but gah...this really rubbed me up the wrong way.

*wants to transition and pass as a woman*
*transitions*
*passes as woman*
*is annoyed that she doesn’t pass to get into a club because she passes as a woman*

make it make sense!

The Agony and the Ecstasy of Getting Mistaken for Cis

Hari Nef on the time she unexpectedly confronted her gender dysphoria outside the gay club.

www.gq.com

 

[Zenchick101]

First post on this thread after reading and basically nodding along with all of you for weeks... this post reminded me of an article I’d read by Hari Nef, that they’d written for GQ magazine about the ‘conflicting emotions’ on now passing as cis after transitioning. I’d always admired Hari, but gah...this really rubbed me up the wrong way.

*wants to transition and pass as a woman*
*transitions*
*passes as woman*
*is annoyed that she doesn’t pass to get into a club because she passes as a woman*

make it make sense!

The Agony and the Ecstasy of Getting Mistaken for Cis

Hari Nef on the time she unexpectedly confronted her gender dysphoria outside the gay club.

www.gq.com

I read this and it's seems like the embodiment of having your cake and eating it too. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

First post on this thread after reading and basically nodding along with all of you for weeks... this post reminded me of an article I’d read by Hari Nef, that they’d written for GQ magazine about the ‘conflicting emotions’ on now passing as cis after transitioning. I’d always admired Hari, but gah...this really rubbed me up the wrong way.

*wants to transition and pass as a woman*
*transitions*
*passes as woman*
*is annoyed that she doesn’t pass to get into a club because she passes as a woman*

make it make sense!

The Agony and the Ecstasy of Getting Mistaken for Cis

Hari Nef on the time she unexpectedly confronted her gender dysphoria outside the gay club.

www.gq.com

Lost my respect the minute they started bragging about the drugs they were doing and the designer items they were wearing.

On the word queer - it's not my word. As an asexual I won't use it as I don't see it as mine to reclaim as it was never used as a slur against us historically.

Becoming aware of the teen/GenZ culture around the LGBT+ community, it feels like kids see being straight as being square or vanilla. Boring. Why be dulux white paint when you could be limited edition glitter paint? Hence the invention of ever-smaller niche identities and aesthetic genders. Horny mostly on Tuesdays? That's a new identity. Foxes are your favourite animal? New identity. Look at me, I'm so unique.

 

[CosmicCreepers]

View attachment 534374

This image came to mind after reading some recent posts on this thread. Credit to @sallou20 on Twitter. I think it says it all!

I love this!

 

[Zenchick101]

Lost my respect the minute they started bragging about the drugs they were doing and the designer items they were wearing.

On the word queer - it's not my word. As an asexual I won't use it as I don't see it as mine to reclaim as it was never used as a slur against us historically.

Becoming aware of the teen/GenZ culture around the LGBT+ community, it feels like kids see being straight as being square or vanilla. Boring. Why be dulux white paint when you could be limited edition glitter paint? Hence the invention of ever-smaller niche identities and aesthetic genders. Horny mostly on Tuesdays? That's a new identity. Foxes are your favourite animal? New identity. Look at me, I'm so unique.

I mean seriously bragging about gucci? I like designer gear but bragging about it is lame and gucci has been a devalued brand ever since everyone was wearing it and fakes several years ago. Also what adult brags about the drugs they do?

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

Lost my respect the minute they started bragging about the drugs they were doing and the designer items they were wearing.

On the word queer - it's not my word. As an asexual I won't use it as I don't see it as mine to reclaim as it was never used as a slur against us historically.

Becoming aware of the teen/GenZ culture around the LGBT+ community, it feels like kids see being straight as being square or vanilla. Boring. Why be dulux white paint when you could be limited edition glitter paint? Hence the invention of ever-smaller niche identities and aesthetic genders. Horny mostly on Tuesdays? That's a new identity. Foxes are your favourite animal? New identity. Look at me, I'm so unique.

I think it is also partly a way to make themselves not look like 'bad people.' In some sections of youth culture (especially online) at the minute being male makes you automatically a bad person, being white makes you a bad person, being straight makes you a bad person, being cis makes you a bad person, being middle class makes you a bad person, being able bodied makes you a bad person and being neurotypical makes you a bad person.

So you have so many people who are desperately putting on fake sexualities, fake genders, self-diagnosing themselves with disabilities, chronic illnesses and mental health issues and pretending that they grew up poorer than they did because they're desperate to not look privileged and to be seen as what twitter defines as a 'good person.'

Luckily most do grow out of it but they still leave a path of destruction behind.

 

[sephylily]

I think it is also partly a way to make themselves not look like 'bad people.' In some sections of youth culture (especially online) at the minute being male makes you automatically a bad person, being white makes you a bad person, being straight makes you a bad person, being cis makes you a bad person, being middle class makes you a bad person, being able bodied makes you a bad person and being neurotypical makes you a bad person.

So you have so many people who are desperately putting on fake sexualities, fake genders, self-diagnosing themselves with disabilities, chronic illnesses and mental health issues and pretending that they grew up poorer than they did because they're desperate to not look privileged and to be seen as what twitter defines as a 'good person.'

Luckily most do grow out of it but they still leave a path of destruction behind.

i saw a tiktok where someone said that they felt discrimination bc they were black and a woman (something along those lines i can't remember exactly) and a white guy/girl? (probably non binary) said try being queer, autistic and having adhd. that sort of thing is what makes me think people are making stuff up bc they don't want to be classed as having white privilege so they make up things that they think mean they don't benefit from white privilege.

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

i saw a tiktok where someone said that they felt discrimination bc they were black and a woman (something along those lines i can't remember exactly) and a white guy/girl? (probably non binary) said try being queer, autistic and having adhd. that sort of thing is what makes me think people are making stuff up bc they don't want to be classed as having white privilege so they make up things that they think mean they don't benefit from white privilege.

Back when I was an SJW in the mid 2010s I used to be really angry at people who joked about the 'oppression Olympics' but that's pretty much what society has ended up with.

After I gave up 99% of social media it doesn't bother me much anymore and I don't give a toss if some nameless twitter avatar likes me. There are parts of how I was born/raised that do make my life easier and there are parts of how I was born/raised that make my life harder. None of those make me a good or bad person, I'm a good (or bad) person based on my deeds in real life.

To bring it back on topic, I think that if social media collapsed there would be a whole lot less gender nonsense going on.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

When categories make you a good or bad person, the only thing to do is to identify out of the negatively seen category and into the positively seen one. It's one reason I suspect that that person in the Green Party is so keen on having lots and lots of labels. Identify as black, you get a seat on the GP's poc committee, identify as LGBT+, you get a seat on the GP's LGBT+ committee, say you have a disability and you get on their disability committee.

Benjamin Boyce has a pretty good critique of the problems with intersectionality when you try to apply it in totality. (skip to 7.45 if you want to cut to the chase)



It really interests me, especially with my millenial peers who grew up reading Harry Potter, that they haven't learned the fundamental lesson of 'it's our choices that makes us who we are'. It matters not what we are (sex, gender, age, skin colour, nationality, wealth class, sexual orientation), but what we do and how we treat other people. Similarly, the people who read as teens 'the world isn't split between good people and death eaters' have decided that anyone saying that they have some critiques of CRT is Hitler.

 

[Gairlfb]

Relating to some of the things brought up in this thread, I went to a pub for lunch today (first time in six or so months!), had a lovely time but one thing that irked me was the toilets - there were male ones and then ‘gender neutral’ ones. The ‘gender neutral’ ones clearly had previously been ‘female’ but just had a printed out sign placed over the door. I was there with four male friends and happened to mention it, they admitted they did notice the signage but hadn’t thought much of it until I pointed out that meant there weren’t actually any ‘female’ toilets at all. I found it really weird and I think it was my first instance of real world female erasure! I’m trying to decide if I want to contact the pub to flag this to them, but I am really put off by what I assume would be a response from them to me basically saying this is a transphobic feeling or something. Bleurgh. Sorry, a bit of a ramble but just felt like this thread was a place I knew my thoughts wouldn’t be lost, and I was pretty jarred to have something like this pop up literally on my first post-lockdown venture anywhere!

 

[emmer_moans]

Relating to some of the things brought up in this thread, I went to a pub for lunch today (first time in six or so months!), had a lovely time but one thing that irked me was the toilets - there were male ones and then ‘gender neutral’ ones. The ‘gender neutral’ ones clearly had previously been ‘female’ but just had a printed out sign placed over the door. I was there with four male friends and happened to mention it, they admitted they did notice the signage but hadn’t thought much of it until I pointed out that meant there weren’t actually any ‘female’ toilets at all. I found it really weird and I think it was my first instance of real world female erasure! I’m trying to decide if I want to contact the pub to flag this to them, but I am really put off by what I assume would be a response from them to me basically saying this is a transphobic feeling or something. Bleurgh. Sorry, a bit of a ramble but just felt like this thread was a place I knew my thoughts wouldn’t be lost, and I was pretty jarred to have something like this pop up literally on my first post-lockdown venture anywhere!

It would be the women's toilets that becomes unisex wouldn't it, typical.

 

[CheshireLove]

Relating to some of the things brought up in this thread, I went to a pub for lunch today (first time in six or so months!), had a lovely time but one thing that irked me was the toilets - there were male ones and then ‘gender neutral’ ones. The ‘gender neutral’ ones clearly had previously been ‘female’ but just had a printed out sign placed over the door. I was there with four male friends and happened to mention it, they admitted they did notice the signage but hadn’t thought much of it until I pointed out that meant there weren’t actually any ‘female’ toilets at all. I found it really weird and I think it was my first instance of real world female erasure! I’m trying to decide if I want to contact the pub to flag this to them, but I am really put off by what I assume would be a response from them to me basically saying this is a transphobic feeling or something. Bleurgh. Sorry, a bit of a ramble but just felt like this thread was a place I knew my thoughts wouldn’t be lost, and I was pretty jarred to have something like this pop up literally on my first post-lockdown venture anywhere!

They might as well just admit they only do this to female toilets because men are so violent and intolerant and women are socialised not to be. (Oh, and they expect women to put up with any old tit as a result).

 

[thegirlscout]

Relating to some of the things brought up in this thread, I went to a pub for lunch today (first time in six or so months!), had a lovely time but one thing that irked me was the toilets - there were male ones and then ‘gender neutral’ ones. The ‘gender neutral’ ones clearly had previously been ‘female’ but just had a printed out sign placed over the door. I was there with four male friends and happened to mention it, they admitted they did notice the signage but hadn’t thought much of it until I pointed out that meant there weren’t actually any ‘female’ toilets at all. I found it really weird and I think it was my first instance of real world female erasure! I’m trying to decide if I want to contact the pub to flag this to them, but I am really put off by what I assume would be a response from them to me basically saying this is a transphobic feeling or something. Bleurgh. Sorry, a bit of a ramble but just felt like this thread was a place I knew my thoughts wouldn’t be lost, and I was pretty jarred to have something like this pop up literally on my first post-lockdown venture anywhere!

Somewhere near me has made the disabled toilet the ‘gender neutral’ toilet. A friend of mine said it was unfair to have a disabled toilet that is regularly used be converted because some people with disabilities, their disability involves the use of a bathroom quickly. The place just gave a general response that they will look into it but this is how it is staying for now blah blah.

 

[mindlessness]

A public art museum near me now has all gender loos, but as well as and disabled loos and women and men’s loos. I think they changed some single stall men’s and women’s bathrooms over, but left the main ones alone. Anyway, I don’t mind that arrangement. Did roll my eyes when I saw it on my first visit after lockdown, but it’s inevitable in public institutions like that which want to be seen to be inclusive.

 

[thegirlscout]

A public art museum near me now has all gender loos, but as well as and disabled loos and women and men’s loos. I think they changed some single stall men’s and women’s bathrooms over, but left the main ones alone. Anyway, I don’t mind that arrangement. Did roll my eyes when I saw it on my first visit after lockdown, but it’s inevitable in public institutions like that which want to be seen to be inclusive.

That seems to make sense because everyone is catered for. I don’t see why this can’t be the normal way of approaching it instead of getting rid of women’s or disabled, etc.

 

[littlenoodle]

God it just seems absolutely wild (although believable) that this is actually starting to happen. I wouldn't use them personally and would email them. Their men's and 'unisex' toilets will end up just turning into all male toilets because women won't use them, and then would transgender want to use them if all the men are in there anyway?

Why in every scenario are the women's and the disabled toilets the first ones to be made into unisex when both groups of people have very specific needs for using single space toilets and men who are the one group that don't, get their own space? It's clearly people trying to tick an inclusivity box with zero brain cells or forward planning. Good luck with your all-male pub

 

[Badabing101]

The toilet thing is a bug bear of mine... especially when you have situations like female toilets being converted to gender neutral. It’s proven that women take more time in bathrooms for many reasons, periods, likely to have children with them etc etc so we should actually be providing more facilities not taking them away. I imagine it’s a cost decision - male toilets have urinals and regular toilets, why bother or go to the expense of changing these when you have a ready made solution to just change the signage. Grrrrr