Gender Discussion #39

[holly1727373!3]

It does make sense because both only involve water. So if seeing water being sprayed is obscene then the same applies to any fountain - I just used the Friends one as an example.

But nobody is seeing the act of water being sprayed as obscene though, are they? It’s the deliberate intention behind it. Just one look at the picture above shows very clearly that there was sexual motivations behind it and it isn’t something as innocent as water being sprayed like you’ve compared it too

But because he’s not having actual piss sprayed at him, it’s alright

 

[Ensay]

But nobody is seeing the act of water being sprayed as obscene though, are they? It’s the deliberate intention behind it. Just one look at the picture above shows very clearly that there was sexual motivations behind it and it isn’t something as innocent as water being sprayed like you’ve compared it too

But because he’s not having actual piss sprayed at him, it’s alright

The thing is though someone needs to know the concept to understand what it's getting at. And if they know the concept then it's not like the video is introducing them to it.

If someone doesn't know the concept then they won't understand what it means either. Hence why I don't get the fuss.

I'm gonna be honest here, it's mostly people that don't like Sam Smith who are making a bigger thing of it. I don't like him either, nor do I agree with the whole non-binary thing, but I can at least watch the video objectively.

 

[Peachsquish]

Ugh just saw one of these cards in my local Card Factory.
Not only can you sterilise and mutilate yourself you can get a special card too.

 

[mindlessness]

The thing is though someone needs to know the concept to understand what it's getting at. And if they know the concept then it's not like the video is introducing them to it.

If someone doesn't know the concept then they won't understand what it means either. Hence why I don't get the fuss.

I'm gonna be honest here, it's mostly people that don't like Sam Smith who are making a bigger thing of it. I don't like him either, nor do I agree with the whole non-binary thing, but I can at least watch the video objectively.

People disagreeing with you doesn't mean you were able to watch the video objectively and they weren't Ensay.

In my opinion It's a shite music video regardless of the music artist involved.

 

[emmer_moans]

Ugh just saw one of these cards in my local Card Factory.
Not only can you sterilise and mutilate yourself you can get a special card too.
View attachment 1921762

it's a commercial enterprise now, a whole new market to capitalise on.

 

[thegirlscout]

Possibly an unpopular opinion but the sexualisation of almost every aspect of our culture, including that disgusting Sam Smith video (how can anyone say objections to that are puritanical??) and songs like WAP, have opened the floodgates. It’s a huge part of the reason perverts feel emboldened to indulge their proclivities out in the open. The situation in which we find ourselves as a society didn’t happen in a vacuum.

And you get people going ‘it’s empowering!’ ‘They are just feeling themselves!’

 

[Ensay]

People disagreeing with you doesn't mean you were able to watch the video objectively and they weren't Ensay.

In my opinion It's a shite music video regardless of the music artist involved.

I thought it was obvious I was giving an opinion - ie I think some people are letting their bias get in the way. Clearly not everyone will agree with me, but that's life.

I do bite my tongue quite a bit on Tattle because there's a prevailing view on almost every thread, and if you stick your head above the parapet to say you disagree with the majority, a lot of people don't like it. But I couldn't help speak out this time as I really don't get the fuss or the outrage in this particular case.

 

[maytoseptember]

I think most of the 'controversy' comes from the part that's supposedly meant to be a 'golden shower'. However, the bit in question is tame really because it's clear water, so is no more obscene than drinking from a water fountain. The opening credits of Friends where they play in the fountain and spit water out their mouths also needs banning if this video needs banning.

Maybe it’s because I’m over 40 and I haven’t watched a contemporary music video in years. Maybe it’s because I’m a TERF and more sensitive to these issues now. Maybe it’s because I’ve only seen clips of the Sam Smith video and not the whole thing, but my impression was that it was more porn soaked than the average sexually explicit music video (and sexually explicit videos are not new - I’m old enough to know that).

I think it’s disingenuous to say this kind of open-mouthed, eyes-closed posturing is like watching someone drink at a water fountain. It’s so obviously pornified, but not just pornified in a “look how fuckable I am” way, like the old days, it’s pornified in a “let’s push the envelope and normalise paraphilias” way.

 

[Cocobaby09]

His music bores the arse off me so I'd definitely not seek out his videos. Gives me the boke anyway

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

And you get people going ‘it’s empowering!’ ‘They are just feeling themselves!’

The reality is, the majority of people couldn't care less about other peoples sex lives. So what if you like being pissed on, you like shitting on people etc. why would I or anyone else NOT in a relationship with you care!?? Honestly it's so narcissistic to think otherwise, its all been done before, no ones mind is blown, we just rather not see it.

It's an old thrope music artists fall back on when they know their music has gone to shite. This is the death knell to his music career, not because the video is so "edgy" and "scandalous" but because the song is so tit the video is the only thing people can talk about.

 

[Ensay]

Maybe it’s because I’m over 40 and I haven’t watched a contemporary music video in years. Maybe it’s because I’m a TERF and more sensitive to these issues now. Maybe it’s because I’ve only seen clips of the Sam Smith video and not the whole thing, but my impression was that it was more porn soaked than the average sexually explicit music video (and sexually explicit videos are not new - I’m old enough to know that).

I think it’s disingenuous to say this kind of open-mouthed, eyes-closed posturing is like watching someone drink at a water fountain. It’s so obviously pornified, but not just pornified in a “look how fuckable I am” way, like the old days, it’s pornified in a “let’s push the envelope and normalise paraphilias” way.

View attachment 1921805

I honestly don't think it's any worse than anything Madonna trotted out in the 80s.

And the fact the above image has been posted here repeatedly is surely evidence that it's pretty tame. If it was too explicit, I don't think anyone would post it here and certainly not without spoiler tags.

But I've said my piece now.

 

[mindlessness]

I thought it was obvious I was giving an opinion - ie I think some people are letting their bias get in the way. Clearly not everyone will agree with me, but that's life.

I'm afraid it wasn't obvious. At least to me. The tone of your post made it seem like you were judging people who disagreed.

But whatever.

 

[Ensay]

I'm afraid it wasn't obvious. At least to me. The tone of your post made it seem like you were claiming objectivity in a way which seemed to imply you thought others weren't watching it objectively.

But whatever.

Well, I'm glad I was able to clarify it for you.

 

[smellyfootballboots]

I think I sort of agree with you. I haven’t watched the whole video, mainly because I’m not a fan of Sam Smith’s music, so the idea of having to listen to his singing AND watch him at the same time is a bit much. But from the clips I’ve seen there’s absolutely nothing in there that hasn’t been done before.
Your point about the double standards is spot on.It’s pretty rich of the DM to be winding themselves into a fury over this particular video. This is the same DM that wanks itself silly over photo after photo of women in bikinis frolicking in the surf, flaunting their curves in next to nothing or taking an impromptu shower in the Trafalgar Square fountain.
If they want to start a discussion about morality, perhaps they need to start with looking at themselves.

You are aware it is representative of a 'golden shower?' - not quite the same theme as a bikini clad woman in Trafalgar square..

ETA: I think Sam Smith is a prick. A completely misogynistic, self absorbed, twit. I don't don't like his music and I don't like him. 100% gives me the ick. He is a grubby little man whom one day I wouldn't be surprised if there maybe a few police reports about him (ala Boy George?/George Michael?)

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

Oh thank CHRIST Owen Jones has waded in with his usual disingenuous, reductive, turgid, misogynistic comments. Look, despite anything else, Sam Smith looks like a fat baby sumo wrestler in that video. I have honestly had sexier piles than the state of HIM in that video. At least if Harry Styles or someone similar had done it, it could have had a degree of aesthetically pleasing sex appeal and kudos. Instead you've got a big fat manbaby, who seems to be in the throes of some sort of breakdown, simulating golden showers. It's bleeping laughable.

 

[ChastityDingle]

His music bores the arse off me so I'd definitely not seek out his videos. Gives me the boke anyway

Same here. I half watched the Graham Norton show at the weekend but didn't watch anymore once he appeared. I can't stand him.

 

[weeweegie]

I remember the Madonna videos and although sexually provocative, I can’t remember actual sex acts being simulated. Can’t comment on her book but was always under the impression it was full of pictures of her boobs Anyway, to conclude Ensay, yes we all find Sam Smith repulsive in here and arguing whether we are fairly judging his latest video is neither here nor there. It’s tattle, not a court of law.

 

[nicalibres]

And you get people going ‘it’s empowering!’ ‘They are just feeling themselves!’

Don’t even get me started.

Spoiler: Off topic rant

The exploitation of women and erosion of our rights are directly linked to the over sexualisation of our society fuelled by mainstream media “pushing boundaries”, and easy access to ever more extreme porn. The belief that women should be able to sleep with whoever we want without judgement (valid) was co-opted and quickly evolved to submitting to your partners porn induced fantasies or be derided as frigid or vanilla. Wear the least amount of clothes possible for YOURSELF, not for men. What man would want to see that? Onlyfans? Get that money! Having sweaty perverts wank to a £5 pic if your fanny is soooo empowering. If you disagree you hate women and are anti feminist. If you’re not hyper feminine or sexual you must be nb or a man. Men are women and should be allowed access to you in the spaces where you’re at your most vulnerable. Only transphobes and bigots would object. Rapists should be housed in women’s prisons because even dangerous male sex offenders have more rights than you. All dressed up as “progress”.

If you got to the end of that you deserve a medal

 

[Peachsquish]

Agree with regards to the music video, don't really want to watch anyone no matter what sex, race or size shoving sex down my throat.

 

[Milliemoo99]

I honestly don't think it's any worse than anything Madonna trotted out in the 80s.

And the fact the above image has been posted here repeatedly is surely evidence that it's pretty tame. If it was too explicit, I don't think anyone would post it here and certainly not without spoiler tags.

But I've said my piece now.

Having watched the video as well....I would tend to agree, the Sam Smith vid isnt really any worse or any more suggestive, than any number of Madonna, or Britney or Christina Agulera videos.

Its only looking at it from an older perspective, that I am more, tired, of the obvious sexualisation, objectification and tired old ridiculously sexualised lyrics.

I watched the video and wondered who on earth Sam Smith is looking for as a lover? The video is all about image, all about the needs of the central over the top character. Do they just want a selfish relationship with someone who will totally adore them, shower them with attention, golden showers....whilst they are just selfish and give absolutely nothing to anyone else?

Sam Smith looks so male with moustache and male body shape, the outfit is/are totally uncomplimentary...... They have to sit on a bench to be lifted up.... Dr Frank n furter from Rocky Horror was so much sexier. Sam Smith isnt remotely sexy, just ....odd and grotesque.