Gender Discussion #35

[The True Venus ♀]

"Misgendered" so they'd rather news falsely report that a woman did this? As is often done with sex offenders, or like in Ezra Miller's case where the use of "they/them" was used to obscure the fact that he was a grown man alleged to have groomed an underage girl

I swear a TIM could commit 10,0000 war crimes, grape crimes, murders ect but let one person call them a man they make that into a bigger issue than the CRIMES they committed and go on a TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN rant which doesn’t really mean anything since they can’t define what a woman is.

 

[weeweegie]

View attachment 1718977
I swear a TIM could commit 10,0000 war crimes, grape crimes, murders ect but let one person call them a man they make that into a bigger issue than the CRIMES they committed and go on a TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN rant which doesn’t really mean anything since they can’t define what a woman is.

‘Heartbreaking and dangerous’ omfg

It shouldn’t, but it still shocks me that people actually say that TWAW. It feels extremely insulting to women to say that. I don’t say that to be hateful to trans people. It is just simply NOT TRUE. And everything we go through as women our whole lives…now any bloke can just come along and say he’s a woman and he’s applauded and called brave. It’s upsetting. Try nearly dying in childbirth. I’d call that brave, not putting on a bit of make up and an ill fitting dress.

 

[nothanksbabes]

I'm sure there will be some people here who just hate drag who will look at these and go 'gross'. Drag is meant to make people uncomfortable by confronting stereotypes. But its art, you don't have to appreciate it because art is subjective always but drag isn't about men in dresses trying to invade spaces and groom children. Its a f-u to gender stereotypes and society's vision of how we should be put in our boxes based off of what we are told. Clothes are genderless. By saying these are caricatures of women you're saying that make up and dresses are just for girls. One of those pictures is of a queen who was born biologically female. Thank you for asking too! And thank you to those who said for me not to run away. I appreciate that.

You're arguing with yourself at this point. Nobody in this thread has said that anyone should wear clothes according to their sex. Pretty sure the last two pages are people saying the opposite.

If you're not a troll or being deliberately disingenuous then you can't read.

Some of that drag is just avant garde fashion. Reminds me of the 90s club kid scene which I'd have loved to have been part of.

A trans influencer, Nikita Dragun has been but in a mens prison and people aren’t happy about it.

Nikita Dragun Arrested for Felony in Miami, Allegedly Naked at Hotel Pool

Nikita Dragun left a swanky Miami Beach hotel in handcuffs ... after cops say she was walking around the pool in the nude before dousing officers and security guards with water.

www.tmz.com

Nikita is known for being problematic and misogynistic to black Women and women in general, this makes me laugh. Also I don’t see what’s wrong about his sex being put as male, Nikita IS male. Gender and sex are two different things, remember.

Oh cry me a river. If he was that concerned about ending up in a men's prison he wouldn't have got his rooster out.

 

[Sweetcouchpotato]

I guess the difference is that I approach this from, why would you risk leaving so many transgender people behind or in a place of mental decline which could lead to them taking their own life, why take the risk in that? Everyone seems to only deal in absolutes here. Nothing is black and white.

My opinions on trans people really comes from a place of compassion because I think trans people are mentally ill so they definitely need therapy and support for their delusional thinking. It is a delusion to think you can feel that your sex is wrong or that you're really the opposite sex, as much as it's a delusion to think you're Napoleon or an animal. What happens now is cruel - creating a myth that they can really *be* the opposite sex, that sexual partners will never know, that they can be real biological "mothers" or "fathers", and of course that doesn't happen. Helping them cope with their mental illness is much better than irreversibly mutilating their bodies and still never being a real man or a real woman. People hyper obsess over this stuff and it's just toxic and futile, and the Kind Thing to do is actually be honest and help them accept reality.

Look, like the friend you mentioned, I'm intersex. I was assigned female at birth (the only time those words are valid imo) and have lived my entire life through thar perspective, as a daughter, sister, wife, mother. My body grew a tina in my mum's womb and i grew my own breasts as a teenager. My medical care, education, employment and interaction with the state have all been mediated by my perceived femaleness. When I was sexually harassed, assaulted and grape it was because the men who did it saw me as a woman.

But even so, I can't say I "feel like a woman". I imagine I do because until I was 20 I'd only ever been told I was a girl/woman, and if ever I compare myself to others I don't perceive any connection to men or masculinity. The reality is I have a mixture of sexual characteristics because my chromosomes are XY. I can only say I feel like myself. Isn't that all any of us can say? Why do the rest of us need to play along with an unhealthy, obsessive delusion to the point that leaders of countries and huge organisations like the NHS or BBC start pretending science and biology and the evidence of our own eyes no longer exist?

 

[dodo789]

Nikita is actually post-op so he was flashing his open gape out to everyone he should be on the sex offenders list as there would’ve been children there too.
He also did other crimes like steal from bars, attack hotel staff and police officers and cause disturbance at the hotel. It’s annoying to see people go “Respect Nikitas pronouns” even after all this mess. I’m not respecting tit, Nikita (Nickolas) is an asshat.

Really, where did you see that he had surgery, I couldn’t find anything and looking at his recent pics his crotch area ( ) looks bulky…this was a weird sentence to write down

 

[Glortard]

Really, where did you see that he had surgery, I couldn’t find anything and looking at his recent pics his crotch area ( ) looks bulky…this was a weird sentence to write down

This is from 2021 and seems to back you up (and also show the youtuber in not such a nice light)


Today, Nikita is living her best life and wants everyone to know they need to stop asking trans women that question.
"Imagine getting asked every single day if u 'cut it off,' 'what do u have,' or 'did u get the surgery,'" she wrote on Instagram. "It used to bother me so much but honestly after so many years idgaf anymore. All I have to say it takes BALLS being a woman nowadays. And being a woman is so much more than what’s in between ur legs."
She ended her caption with a very simple message: "I chose to live my truth and if u don’t like it u can SUCK IT."

 

[nothanksbabes]

On the subject of TiMs in prison, there's an episode or two of Ear Hustle, a podcast made in and about a US prison, which features a TiM. He basically (and unsurprisingly) says that its easier to be trans in prison than it is to be gay. Homophobia and sexism is rife among the male prison population, but if those men present as "women" they're performing accepted and expected gender roles and are left alone.

Which fits with the view that transgender ideology is actually upholding the patriarchy-enforced gender binary, not subverting it in any way whatsoever.

 

[MotorcycleEmptiness]

I hope this is allowed….

If anyone here is a civil servant - then a sex based rights network has been founded. It’s early days but hopefully it will expand as word gets out

SEEN

Sex Equality and Equity Network

seen-network.uk

 

[The True Venus ♀]

Really, where did you see that he had surgery, I couldn’t find anything and looking at his recent pics his crotch area ( ) looks bulky…this was a weird sentence to write down

YouTube video, I used to watch Nikita


But there has been people saying that Nikita didn’t VS he did. But many people say he’s post-op as there has been men who “slept” with nikita didn’t know Nikita was trans until someone told them

 

[Ekathrina]

That seems like an awful lot of waffling and hand waving without actually answering the question. Plus it’s from 4 years ago and a year ago he was posting photos of himself ‘tucking’ and wearing tuck tape on Twitter.

 

[dodo789]

YouTube video, I used to watch Nikita

I watched this at 2x speed so I’m might have missed it but I don’t think he spoke about the bottom surgery. He mentioned HRT and a bunch of other surgeries he got but not the bottom one …and that facebook post @Glortard posted indicates this as well, tbh I don’t even care, it’s already bizarre that I did this much digging whether someone has a fool or not

 

[Nelly's mum]

Bimini is in drag there, where they blur their lines of their own fashion and drag is through their own choices of styling, but those photos are literally from the programme Drag Race. The lines of it have been blurred through progression, the literal catchphrase thats put out there constantly is that we are all born naked and the rest is drag. Yes in the 90s and early 00s what was highlighted in traditional media may have been the 60s doll aesthetic and what could be considered regressive garb but still club kids were drag.

Also in terms of the female to male drag queen, its not the female frame of a clinched waist that pushed them forward. There is literally a biological female drag queen on the UK series and Canadian series who would be seen as a bigger queen. The name in drag for that is bio-queen, as in biological woman queen. As in an understanding that a trans queen is not a biological woman.

You can't choose to define drag in one way when it encompassing so many different styles and forms of expression. Costume is drag. The monster looks are drag. Hence what I have said about drag is not one form of entertainment, there are layers to it beyond a man in a dress. I'm sure thats easy to see and it doesn't take anything away from us in anyway as women.

I do agree that its very easy to get disillusioned with the show because its so oversaturated. On the latest series though they have that discussion where a queen thought they had to dress more feminine and reductive in order to succeed because they were being asked to show different styles and they were brought back down to earth and told that that is backward thinking, they were literally sitting beside someone dressed as a giant mushroom.

SueDoyou, Why are you so interested in drag? This is more than a general interest, you seem really invested - why is that ?

 

[MotorcycleEmptiness]

Detrans talks about his surgery in this video, and how the gender clinics were so insistent on getting him the SRS after he said No countless times.
He actually goes into deep detail about his surgery and I never knew they drill a hole into the mans pelvis in order to make a “neo-tina” sounds absolutely horrid. The fact TRA are pushing kids into getting this is beyond ducked.

Ritchie is a colleague of mine. His story is harrowing but I would advise giving this a listen - it’s so important these issues are spoke about.

James Esses is another great spokesperson for GC views.

 

[SueDoyou]

SueDoyou, Why are you so interested in drag? This is more than a general interest, you seem really invested - why is that ?

I enjoy it I of course find it humorous in elements and love how brazen it can be but beyond anything I love how it challenges gender stereotypes. Growing up where I am from I didn't see much difference and when I did it was shut down. I encountered a lot of bullying about my size and for being a goth girl of sorts so I guess I identify with the misfit element of it. I had a very good friend who was gay growing up who sadly isn't with us anymore and I could always see the barriers he wanted to break out of but didn't have the safe space to do it within our local community but he taught me a lot about accepting myself and that we all cant fit in one box to please everyone. That goes for everyone here too, I respect everyone's opinions because truly I'm really only forming my own right now, maybe its being a mother I've wanted to educate myself rather than ignore the conversations that are happening around the world because like you guys I'm sure the world scares the tit out of me right now.

When it comes to the earlier drag race seasons I think its a wonderful thing to see the change and progression from the things people have mentioned. Tbh I'm talking like I love the show, I don't, its tired and oversaturated but I still think there are great things that can be taken from it. I have read a lot of things in here about drag being men in dresses and it leans into the predatory viewpoint but I can probably make out now that that is more the fear of promotion of gender being interchangeable and allowing more children into the idea that they can just do this with no consequence? I do believe though that drag has very much become more club kid than the stereotype believe here of looking like the perfect woman. Men are feminine, women can be masculine, I don't see those things as straight lines so in effect I don't see what we define as femininity as being 'woman things'. Drag itself is on another spectrum to what being transgender is from what I know so I don't even consider them in the same conversation.

I know a lot of you think that I'm not reading, I am, but please give me some benefit of the doubt since I am outnumbered here, replying to one person is not replying to everyone here, I realise you all have different opinions and varying levels of tolerance for certain aspects of these things.

My opinions on trans people really comes from a place of compassion because I think trans people are mentally ill so they definitely need therapy and support for their delusional thinking. It is a delusion to think you can feel that your sex is wrong or that you're really the opposite sex, as much as it's a delusion to think you're Napoleon or an animal. What happens now is cruel - creating a myth that they can really *be* the opposite sex, that sexual partners will never know, that they can be real biological "mothers" or "fathers", and of course that doesn't happen. Helping them cope with their mental illness is much better than irreversibly mutilating their bodies and still never being a real man or a real woman. People hyper obsess over this stuff and it's just toxic and futile, and the Kind Thing to do is actually be honest and help them accept reality.

Look, like the friend you mentioned, I'm intersex. I was assigned female at birth (the only time those words are valid imo) and have lived my entire life through thar perspective, as a daughter, sister, wife, mother. My body grew a tina in my mum's womb and i grew my own breasts as a teenager. My medical care, education, employment and interaction with the state have all been mediated by my perceived femaleness. When I was sexually harassed, assaulted and grape it was because the men who did it saw me as a woman.

But even so, I can't say I "feel like a woman". I imagine I do because until I was 20 I'd only ever been told I was a girl/woman, and if ever I compare myself to others I don't perceive any connection to men or masculinity. The reality is I have a mixture of sexual characteristics because my chromosomes are XY. I can only say I feel like myself. Isn't that all any of us can say? Why do the rest of us need to play along with an unhealthy, obsessive delusion to the point that leaders of countries and huge organisations like the NHS or BBC start pretending science and biology and the evidence of our own eyes no longer exist?

Thank you for sharing this! I know of someone who was born intersex and had to change their gender halfway through life because of medical complications. I've never spoken to them about it I can't imagine the journey they went on. The last paragraph there was enlightening thank you and one of the best things I've read in here, especially this - I can only say I feel like myself. Isn't that all any of us can say?

When it comes to Nikita, she seems problematic af from what I have read.

When it comes to sport, what is everyone's opinions on the testosterone ban on women who have higher levels of it? Do you see that as a consequence of the trans movement and unfair on those women or fair?

Ritchie is a colleague of mine. His story is harrowing but I would advise giving this a listen - it’s so important these issues are spoke about.

James Esses is another great spokesperson for GC views.

He seems like an incredibly strong person to have survived all of this.

 

[CookieZippy]

This is really sinister.

 

[Vanelope]

I don’t think terfs object to female trans men being in women’s spaces. As we consider them to be women. Be accurate with your fake bigotry.

Statement - 10th Nov 2022

Earlier today on-campus signage at the Institute of Contemporary Music Performance (ICMP) was shared on social media. Our intention, following discussions with our student community, had been to communicate the definition of TERF (Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist) to help clarify what we...

www.icmp.ac.uk

Someone has complained about that. Statement still tit but it’s been taken down. Clunky… and the rest

 

[nothanksbabes]

This is really sinister.

Who the duck says trans men shouldn't be allowed in women's spaces? They're women, and with the exception of those who have been on testosterone for years, rarely pass as men - where else would I expect them to go?

 

[The True Venus ♀]

This is really sinister.

The whole TERF definition is wrong, they don’t exclude trans people as they include TIF.

 

[BlairWaldorf86]

When it comes to sport, what is everyone's opinions on the testosterone ban on women who have higher levels of it? Do you see that as a consequence of the trans movement and unfair on those women or fair?

I really don’t mean this harshly, but you haven’t done much reading around all of this at all, have you?

The testosterone ban on “women” affects athletes with a DSD (intersex) who have XY chromosomes but have been raised as women. There are no women (XX) with testosterone high enough to be banned from women’s sport. And that’s nothing to do with the trans movement.

Unless when you say “women” you mean those such as Lia Thomas, who have to get their testosterone down to a certain level for a certain period of time and then can compete against XX women, no questions asked? Which is hardly a “ban” on those “women” with testosterone above the allowed level (clue: they’re men).

 

[Glortard]

I don’t think terfs object to female trans men being in women’s spaces. As we consider them to be women. Be accurate with your fake bigotry.

Statement - 10th Nov 2022

Earlier today on-campus signage at the Institute of Contemporary Music Performance (ICMP) was shared on social media. Our intention, following discussions with our student community, had been to communicate the definition of TERF (Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist) to help clarify what we...

www.icmp.ac.uk

Someone has complained about that. Statement still tit but it’s been taken down. Clunky… and the rest

The statement still seems to convey that they think woman wanting a separate space is bigotry ignoring the likes of the equality act along with recent court rulings. Men in dresses it seems are still the top trump card.