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BettyRizzo
Well-known member
Phil Anne Throw Pee
VIP Member
How long until we get the next member of the 'be kind, it's so complicated, trans women are women' brigade. Bingo points for:
They have as child who is trans and they have known since they were 6 weeks old.
They work as a counsellor and in the past year have counselled 180,000 trans people, all of whom have been suicidal and all of whom are no threat to women at all.
Their best friend is trans and they are clinically depressed. This is the fault of women.
They think that cis women are very, very bigoted and that drag is wonderful, it's a celebration of womanhood.
They think pronouns are the difference between life and death.
When asked about the dehumanising of women and the very real threat of men in women's spaces, just keep repeating the same tired mantra 'NOT ALL TRANS PEOPLE ARE A THREAT.'
They flounce when they realise we're just a bunch of fat, hairy terfs who can't see the beauty of Wayne in a dress becoming Wendy.
Ad fucking nauseam.
They have as child who is trans and they have known since they were 6 weeks old.
They work as a counsellor and in the past year have counselled 180,000 trans people, all of whom have been suicidal and all of whom are no threat to women at all.
Their best friend is trans and they are clinically depressed. This is the fault of women.
They think that cis women are very, very bigoted and that drag is wonderful, it's a celebration of womanhood.
They think pronouns are the difference between life and death.
When asked about the dehumanising of women and the very real threat of men in women's spaces, just keep repeating the same tired mantra 'NOT ALL TRANS PEOPLE ARE A THREAT.'
They flounce when they realise we're just a bunch of fat, hairy terfs who can't see the beauty of Wayne in a dress becoming Wendy.
Ad fucking nauseam.
Peachsquish
VIP Member
Simple we are women they are trans women
SpaceshipEarth
Active member
A while ago, I was becoming convinced that this concern about the trans agenda was all in my head and that I was overstating the importance of the whole thing. I thought perhaps I was only reading and seeing stuff about it because I was seeking it out. But in the past few days a lot of people I follow on social media have posted stuff like "trans rights are human rights" and fawning posts over Dylan Mulvaney, and these are people who I would previously have credited with intelligence. What sane person actually thinks that it's OK to let men with penises into a rape crisis centre or that Dylan is anything but a narcissistic creep?! I have adopted a zero tolerance policy and have done an instant unfollow of these people. I don't care what people wear, how they dress but it will never make them a woman and if that makes me a transphobe, so bloody be it.
skronkywildcat
VIP Member
I see Rebel Wilson has paid a surrogate to carry a baby for her.
Loved this tweet:
Loved this tweet:
petitspois
VIP Member
Safeguarding women and girls’ safe spaces should always come before men’s fucking feelings.
smellyfootballboots
VIP Member
It's called safeguarding sweetheart. You look at the worse case scenario and do your best to not let that happen. Women only spaces mean no men regardless of their identity. If these trans identified males want or need crisis groups then they need to provide their own. Forcing women to validate their delusion is just not acceptable. Men are predators. Trans identified men are men for life, they offend in the same way as other men, popping on a suspender belt doesn't stop this. No one is saying all men are predators but it is accepted that there are men that are are. TIM's are men, nothing changes.
Do trans folk need support? Absolutely. They need to be encouraged to accept their non-conformity and accept their natal realities. It needs to be made clear to them that if they continue down this path they will forever be outliers in society and that is actually their truth.
This nefarious and highly dubious men's rights movement really needs to be nipped in the bud now and frowned on by society, sadly it will be the bloody lawsuits from the kids whose lives will have been ruined by the trans shit show who will put a stop to it once and for all.
Yes, we can and should judge all trans people any way we wish. Why do women have to accept trans identified males in our spaces? As one of us? Why do we have to suddenly accept paedophiles just because they skipped the DBS check just because they are trans? Why is drag now mainstream? Why are males being given scholarships set aside for girls/women, why are males now getting jobs set aside for women, why are they winning our awards? You think we need to just accept that? Fuck off.
What have TIM's brought to the table for women? Mental illness, further female oppression, paranoia, sexual fetishes, government mandated rapes, paedophilia, removal of female only spaces and services, removal of woman as an independent sex class, sexist stereotypes.. the list of goodies is endless - Why? Because they are men and it's a men's rights movement.
klarakluckbag
VIP Member
I'm older than many of the posters here, and I guess that's why my experience is different to theirs. I assume that the internet has played a large part in things because I can tell you now that not one single person that I know, who is in my age group, honestly thinks that TWAW. We never have, and we never will. The concept to us, is literally laughable. We have all known cross-dressers, we have seen them in real life, we've seen them in the media, we had sympathy and understanding, but as they weren't muscling-in on our spaces, we weren't bothered by them. (I once watched a daytime show which featured cross-dressing men and their wives, and I can remember feeling intensely sorry for the poor spouses, none of whom looked particularly joyful at the prospect of sharing a wardrobe with their husband and his fetish for the rest of their married lives).
Trans "women" these days, are a whole different breed. They're not happy with wearing a dress and make-up, they want the full woman "experience", whatever that is supposed to be. Obviously, they don't want lower pay, the bulk of household chores and childcare, and sub-standard healthcare. They do however, want to compete (and win) in women's competitive sport, they want to undress in front of actual women and girls, they want to be considered for women's sex-protected job roles, they want to menstruate, give birth and breastfeed (they don't actually want to do the icky stuff of course, but they do like to talk about it in women's groups)
Us old terfs really don't have a problem with cross-dressers. We honestly don't. But what is peaking women like me, is hearing about lesbians being abused and insulted for not wanting to have sex with men. Or seeing a 6ft tall man in a women's swim team. Or reading about SA victims, being expected to share a supposed "safe space" with men. Or knowing that women have been raped by a man, whilst serving time in a women's prison.
You can offer all of the excuses that you like, but something is not right. And it's not women, terfs or otherwise, that are the problem.
Trans "women" these days, are a whole different breed. They're not happy with wearing a dress and make-up, they want the full woman "experience", whatever that is supposed to be. Obviously, they don't want lower pay, the bulk of household chores and childcare, and sub-standard healthcare. They do however, want to compete (and win) in women's competitive sport, they want to undress in front of actual women and girls, they want to be considered for women's sex-protected job roles, they want to menstruate, give birth and breastfeed (they don't actually want to do the icky stuff of course, but they do like to talk about it in women's groups)
Us old terfs really don't have a problem with cross-dressers. We honestly don't. But what is peaking women like me, is hearing about lesbians being abused and insulted for not wanting to have sex with men. Or seeing a 6ft tall man in a women's swim team. Or reading about SA victims, being expected to share a supposed "safe space" with men. Or knowing that women have been raped by a man, whilst serving time in a women's prison.
You can offer all of the excuses that you like, but something is not right. And it's not women, terfs or otherwise, that are the problem.
nothanksbabes
VIP Member
That they think a cavity, surgically created from dick and ball skin (or, if we're really lucky, colon!) for the sole purpose of being penetrated is analogous to a vagina is one of the most misogynist things about this movement and one of the things that enrages me most.
Vaginas are part of the reproductive tract and aren't just cavities to shove things in, fucking porn addled crackpots.
nothanksbabes
VIP Member
"Do as I say or I'll kill myself" is a familiar refrain to any of us who have been victims of male interpersonal violence, or manipulation from narcissists of either sex.
Why is it always up to women to accommodate these men? Why is nobody harassing groups of men demanding they accept gender non-conforming men?
Why is the solution for trans women who feel unsafe in spaces with men to then invite everyone into women's single sex spaces, thus exposing us all to the same danger? It's an incredibly entitled viewpoint.
Male violence towards men isn't women's problem to solve, no matter how many delicate pink frilly sparkly lipstick lady feelings some of those men may or may not have.
How many women are acceptable collateral damage in your quest to ensure no man feels unsafe among other men?
I've literally stood in the middle of disgusting homophobic men 20 years older than me to protect a young gender non-conforming lad (a description I'm sure I'd be called transphobic for, but he was a young man in "women's" clothing). Most of us care very much about other people, otherwise why the fuck would we waste our lives worrying about an issue that, as we keep being reminded, probably won't impact us, since hopefully we won't end up in prison or in a women's shelter. That doesn't mean we throw common sense out of the window to pander to any man who says anything about his IdEnTiTy.
Predatory men will do anything to access their predominantly female victims and any half decent trans person would have a shred of empathy and consider this before they support the nonsense idea that we should allow anyone to self ID anywhere.
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nothanksbabes
VIP Member
Absolutely.I think it's often quite difficult to make young women understand just how privileged they are, when compared to their mothers, grandmothers and so on. Young handmaidens like Emma Watson for example, take it for granted that they can go to uni, buy their own house or car, go out at night unattended if they wish (they may not feel particularly safe when doing so, but that's another story), have a career of their choosing, have as many or as few children as they want, with or without a partner. It's no longer legal for their husbands to beat or rape them, they aren't regarded as "property" in law, they aren't expected to "obey" anyone as part of their marriage contract, and they don't have to stary married if they don't want to.
It has taken hundreds of years for women to get these very basic rights, and that's only after a lot of blood, sweat and tears along the way. We still don't get equal pay, flexible working and affordable childcare as standard. We're still being beaten, raped and killed by men who get away with it. We're still expected to do the bulk of the child-rearing and house-keeping, despite what the tv ads try to portray. And we (UK) live in one of the most privileged societies in the world, millions of women aren't nearly so fortunate.
These hard-won rights are not just theirs to give away, they belong to us all, and we're not letting go. I'm sick to death of being compared to racists and homophobes, just because I'm concerned for the welfare of women and girls. If that's the only reason they can come up with for taking away our sex-based rights, they're on shaky ground. WOC and gay women agree with us too, and they're not happy at being called racist or bigoted either.
I have older parents. I'm mid 30s, my mum was born in 1949 and her mum in 1909, so my grandmother was 19 years old before all women had the vote. My mum had to leave school at 15 to work in a factory to contribute to the household. None of them had any choice but to marry, no chance of an education. My mum was considered old when she had my sister at the age of 26 in the 70s. Marital rape was not a crime until the early 1990s! All of this in the UK, and like you say, millions (billions!) of women are still being treated like livestock on account of their sex.
In the context of history women have had rights for the blink of an eye and now we are being denied the language to describe our experience because men think we can be distilled down to a fucking feeling.
To oppress us for thousands of years, then turn around and say they *are* us and we are the oppressors is the ultimate act of misogyny.
nothanksbabes
VIP Member
Shakespeare had male actors in female roles because women weren't allowed to act.
If "gender rage" is how you want to describe my feelings about the systemic oppression of women as a sex class for generations then I'm OK with that.
Phil Anne Throw Pee
VIP Member
No. We are women and they are men who identify as women.
maytoseptember
VIP Member
Can I just say, thank you Tattle for allowing users to call out bullshit when they see it. I would have got banned from Mumsnet for less.
I need a rant - this may not be the most fully formed comment so please bear with me.
I attended a work event yesterday. I work for a very un-diverse organisation (less than 25% female, very white). They had a series of speakers on to talk about diversity/inclusion. Female MP - spoke about menopause and specific ways everyone can give support. Great. Asian MP - spoke about how to promote the industry/organisation to a wider range of people to help diversify the workforce, and showed specific industry and local knowledge. Also great.
22 year old local councillor. Trans man. “I’m trans, me me me me me, I’m trans, pronouns, toilets, I’m trans, me me me me me” and repeat. Was absolutely fawned over. And said little of value.
It was my first real life experience of a TIF. She looked like a little boy in a suit. Would try and talk with a deep voice but then forget and slip into her normal voice. I felt slightly sorry for her, I hope the decision to be trans was
from social contagion rather than a reaction to sexual abuse.
If I wasn’t already GC I would be after that experience. Why do they get to stand up and preach about their beliefs unchallenged? A business would never ask someone to talk about their religion and how everyone else’s religion is wrong. Surely if they want to be accepted as a man/women they would shut up about being trans for a second and maybe try and let people forget about it/pretend they haven’t noticed.
It makes me think about a joke I saw on twitter once that I can modify - how can you tell someone is trans or vegan? Don’t worry, it’s the first thing they will tell you.
I attended a work event yesterday. I work for a very un-diverse organisation (less than 25% female, very white). They had a series of speakers on to talk about diversity/inclusion. Female MP - spoke about menopause and specific ways everyone can give support. Great. Asian MP - spoke about how to promote the industry/organisation to a wider range of people to help diversify the workforce, and showed specific industry and local knowledge. Also great.
22 year old local councillor. Trans man. “I’m trans, me me me me me, I’m trans, pronouns, toilets, I’m trans, me me me me me” and repeat. Was absolutely fawned over. And said little of value.
It was my first real life experience of a TIF. She looked like a little boy in a suit. Would try and talk with a deep voice but then forget and slip into her normal voice. I felt slightly sorry for her, I hope the decision to be trans was
from social contagion rather than a reaction to sexual abuse.
If I wasn’t already GC I would be after that experience. Why do they get to stand up and preach about their beliefs unchallenged? A business would never ask someone to talk about their religion and how everyone else’s religion is wrong. Surely if they want to be accepted as a man/women they would shut up about being trans for a second and maybe try and let people forget about it/pretend they haven’t noticed.
It makes me think about a joke I saw on twitter once that I can modify - how can you tell someone is trans or vegan? Don’t worry, it’s the first thing they will tell you.
I’m not painting anyone with anything, but the simple fact remains that men are a threat to women. Putting on a different item of clothing and changing to a ‘girly’ name does not negate that fact - this is borne out by the statistics that have already been pointed out to you that male transgender prisoners are disproportionately likely to be there for crimes of sexual violence and abuse even when compared to other men. This is because crossdressing and transvestism are a paraphilia and paraphilias are more common in sex offenders and even serial killers - anyone who’s studied criminal psychology or behavioural analysis knows that. As many as 25% of male serial killers have paraphilias involving womens clothing.
The majority of transgender people may want to ‘get on with their lives’ but perhaps you’d like to tell me how I’m supposed to know whether or not some big strapping bloke in a dress who’s just walked into a toilet behind me is one of those, or one of the ones who have nefarious motives. You can’t tell by just looking at someone. Male sex offenders will go to extraordinary lengths to gain access to womens spaces or to vulnerable women and children and that’s a fact. Women deserve to be able to get on with their lives too, and that includes being able to go for a piss or to change a tampon without worrying that there’s a bloke in the next cubicle having a wank or trying to sneak a camera under the partition - both of which are things which are becoming increasingly common.
The majority of transgender people may want to ‘get on with their lives’ but perhaps you’d like to tell me how I’m supposed to know whether or not some big strapping bloke in a dress who’s just walked into a toilet behind me is one of those, or one of the ones who have nefarious motives. You can’t tell by just looking at someone. Male sex offenders will go to extraordinary lengths to gain access to womens spaces or to vulnerable women and children and that’s a fact. Women deserve to be able to get on with their lives too, and that includes being able to go for a piss or to change a tampon without worrying that there’s a bloke in the next cubicle having a wank or trying to sneak a camera under the partition - both of which are things which are becoming increasingly common.
maytoseptember
VIP Member
All I could think of was how unwilling I’d be to lie back on my SOFA and get pissed on. Quite aside from the degradation… the upholstery!