This is very good, I had never heard of her before but the link between surrogacy and prostitution is so clear and not something I had ever heard explained so well... I do have one doubt though, I know people who have acted as surrogates for siblings or friends who cannot conceive... I think there needs to be very, very strong legislation to allow this to happen but not for someone to buy (in a black friday sale no less!!!!) a surrogate from the Ukraine,( for example, or just someone who is poor and wants money) imo there needs to be more of a push for people to adopt, there are SO many children that need to be adopted, wanting your own genes imo just seems selfish
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There's evidence now that removing a child from it's birth mother is traumatic.
I'm adopted. I was loved and brought up in a secure home and never felt unwanted, but it has definitely ducked me up. The fact that anyone would engineer that situation deliberately really upsets me. The baby never seems to be considered in debates about surrogacy either.
I'm adopted. I was loved and brought up in a secure home and never felt unwanted, but it has definitely ducked me up. The fact that anyone would engineer that situation deliberately really upsets me. The baby never seems to be considered in debates about surrogacy either.
I've read this too. I'm also adopted.
Since having my daughter, I've come to understand that it absolutely IS traumatic for a baby to be removed from its birth mother. Their home for nine months, the beat of the mother's heart, the sound of her voice. My baby knew me immediately - turned her head to my voice as the midwives were washing her.
What I find really horrid about surrogacy is that it's another topic like general trans stuff where the power of biology is wilfully ignored. Everything in a birthing woman's body wants her to bond with and care for her baby once he/she has arrived. Even if it's not mentally traumatic for some women to have their babies immediately taken away at birth, it is physically traumatic. But as with sex, this biological fact is now viewed as some kind of mild inconvenience. This is also why I regard some of English/Welsh family law with intense disgust. I completely understand the need to put the best interests of a baby or child first, but we do absolutely nothing here to stop single mothers getting into a cycle of having several babies, all of which are removed. They're not considering the trauma that causes to often young and vulnerable women when they do this. I'd like to see some redirection of funds away from things like paying foster carers essentially a salary to look after children in care, towards some kind of support for mothers who need help. They're not all mad or bad, some of them only just fall short of the threshold to parent and there just aren't the resources in place to assist them to parent. It's cheaper and easier to just take the babies away and give them to someone else, which I think is draconian and in most cases, just wrong for both the baby and the parent. I don't see how the law can divorce child welfare from mother welfare in such a cold way either, I think it's more likely to be symbiotic in a lot of cases.
That last paragraph is just lovely. I don't want kids but goddamnit I'm absolutely sick of society trying to undermine the role of motherhood both physically and mentally. They want to make out that women are just incubators. I'm so tired of it all
Santa's gay now I see. Does he really need to be sexualised?
I was reading an article this morning about the tragic death of a young woman who didn't have the Covid vaccine due to misinformation amidst the medical community and the general avoidance of testing anything on 50% of people (women). This part stayed with me.
You can't change your sex, you can live your best life however you want BUT your body is the only one you will ever have.
You can't change your sex, you can live your best life however you want BUT your body is the only one you will ever have.
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I was hospitalised with severe PND, sleep deprivation, mastitis...all sorts..when my son was maybe 5 days old. The midwives used to care for him so I could sleep. I'll never forget them bringing him in crying, and then him immediately stopping as I leaned towards him and kissed his face. It was like he had been hypnotised. It helped me recover as I realised although I felt so tit about myself, he thought I was wonderful and irreplaceable. Having a baby completely changed my perspective on surrogacy. Babies are born wanting and expecting their mothers.
Tattle really does need an eye roll emoji
There was just a story in BBC about an Italian couple who bought a surrogate baby but for some reason left the newborn girl with a nanny and left the country and never returned. The nanny cared for the baby for 10 months then worried she would be in trouble contacted the authorities. The parents unbelievably said they didn’t want the child but the Italian govt has decreed the baby should be moved to Italy and placed in foster care there. So the nanny has had to give her up. The volunteer who took her to Italy said they were worried about what they would find but she had been very well cared for. So this baby has lost her birth mother, her adoptive parents and her first foster mother because these selfish arseholes tried to buy a baby and changed their mind.View attachment 885310
Ukrainian surrogacy clinic advertising services for black Friday
Link: https://4w.pub/ukrainian-surrogacy-black-friday/
Due to covid parents have not been able to retrieve their children so there are dozens waiting in centres. It’s Romanian orphanages again but to make money. I’m so upset about this. They are children for sale.
I’ve suffered with infertility and it was hell. The worst thing I’ve ever gone through in my life. Some of the comments on here about being selfish for wanting your own biological baby sting a bit for me. My need for a biological child was very real, it was a physical ache and mental torture that I couldn’t conceive my own child. If you haven’t been through it I don’t think you can comment really. I did think of adopting but it just never felt right for me. And the thought of surrogacy (not that it was ever a real consideration for me and my husband), well the way I saw it was it would kill me to see another woman pregnant with ‘my child’. Just my opinion.
I honestly didn’t realise people felt strongly against surrogacy until I read these comments, I realise babies want their mums but they will be cared for by whoever is adopting them. I see it a bit like abortion, it’s giving women choices. If surrogacy is a woman’s last chance to have her own baby then I don’t see why anyone would be against that, it’s not effecting your life. Same way I feel about anti abortion people, why do they care what another woman does with her body and why do they want to take away her choice, just because it’s not something they would do.
I honestly didn’t realise people felt strongly against surrogacy until I read these comments, I realise babies want their mums but they will be cared for by whoever is adopting them. I see it a bit like abortion, it’s giving women choices. If surrogacy is a woman’s last chance to have her own baby then I don’t see why anyone would be against that, it’s not effecting your life. Same way I feel about anti abortion people, why do they care what another woman does with her body and why do they want to take away her choice, just because it’s not something they would do.
The Times had a column for about a year documenting a surrogacy journey of a journalist - they started the paid for route in the US but ended up with a UK altruistic surrogacy. It was very emotive and informative and laid out the hard feelings and how it went. I think there is a place for this, like adoption, but the Ukrainian for profit model is really upsetting.
I guess the reason people like me have issues with surrogacy is similar to your urge for a biological child that you have carried.
That mother-child link is important.
As I said, I'm adopted. My birth mother wasn't able to care for me and I was removed from her before I was a year old. I was very lucky to be raised by people who loved me as their own but it very much had a lasting impact that I can't explain any other way since my adoptive parents (who I am biologically related to) are amazing.
I'm glad to hear you managed to have the baby you longed for. I'm sure they're very loved and lucky to have you.
I guess the reason people like me have issues with surrogacy is similar to your urge for a biological child that you have carried.
That mother-child link is important.
As I said, I'm adopted. My birth mother wasn't able to care for me and I was removed from her before I was a year old. I was very lucky to be raised by people who loved me as their own but it very much had a lasting impact that I can't explain any other way since my adoptive parents (who I am biologically related to) are amazing.
I'm glad to hear you managed to have the baby you longed for. I'm sure they're very loved and lucky to have you.
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The funny thing is, this kind of contagious “mass hysteria” (in young women especially) has actually been documented throughout history. The only difference now is the medium through which it’s spread.
I also really want a biological child so some of the comments stung a bit to me too but that's because I kind of think they're right. I think it is a selfish decision to want to be pregnant/ give birth/ have a baby that's mine (and my husband's) especially given the world we'd be bringing that baby into. But I have decided I am going to be selfish about this and also there's an argument that I think I'm an okay person who has thought a lot about how I was raised and how I want to raise children and it's important to raise good people which (hopefully!) my child/ children would be.
I also want it so physically- the only reason I'm not trying already is career plans and money worries, and when I think about postponing any longer than six months, it aches so much, I just want to be trying now, I want to be a mother now more than I've wanted to be married, more than I've really wanted anything in my life before.
I have thought about having one child biologically and then adopting, but I worry that even if I treated them the same way, even if I loved them both dearly, some small part of me would know they were different experiences, and the adopted child would know that too and that would just not be fair to them. I also live in a part of the US where there have been horrific cases of white people adopting children taken from their parents by ICE and then when this came to light refusing to give the child back and I would hate to do that (I'd also you know give the child back).
I think the for-profit model is the problem and that the people - the women- most effected are women with little other options, women in eastern europe or in India. It's not a choice, in the same way prostitution is rarely a choice, and it's not like selling hair or something which will grow back, it can have lifelong consequences.
But if my sister, who I love dearly, couldn't conceive and I could, I would 100% be happy being a surrogate for her. I would still be part of that child's life, I would know my sister wouldn't leave me in the lurch, she would not blame me if something went wrong, she would help with medical stuff.
(Although the comments from people in this thread about being adopted and at some level knowing that they didn't have that connection with their mother have given me pause).
I'm so happy for you and your child.
I'm the only woman among a group of mostly left-leaning males and I had a really frustrating conversation with them yesterday about the trans agenda, where I was told to "grow up" and that I was getting riled up by a few fringe crazies on Twitter who don't represent the majority of trans people who just want to get on and live their lives quietly.
Someone even confidently mansplained that Gender was determined by an enzyme affecting the embryo at the exact right time and there fore it might be that the process goes wrong at some point. He was promptly shot down and told that sex is determined by chromosomes, but I couldn't believe the confidence with which he came out with complete rubbish.
I know you have to know your audience with this as a contentious topic, but I feel thoroughly flabberghasted and gaslighted into thinking I'm the crazy one.
tl:dr - men innately sticking up for other men. It's not them who are affected, we have to absorb all of the 'others' into our language and spaces.
Someone even confidently mansplained that Gender was determined by an enzyme affecting the embryo at the exact right time and there fore it might be that the process goes wrong at some point. He was promptly shot down and told that sex is determined by chromosomes, but I couldn't believe the confidence with which he came out with complete rubbish.
I know you have to know your audience with this as a contentious topic, but I feel thoroughly flabberghasted and gaslighted into thinking I'm the crazy one.
tl:dr - men innately sticking up for other men. It's not them who are affected, we have to absorb all of the 'others' into our language and spaces.
It's funny, isn't it, that it's very clear what a woman is when a couple is seeking a surrogate.
The thing is, in my experience, you could quote that word-for-word towards groups of women when a lone man is present. They all synchronise and become a single entity. I don't think it's down to either being men or being women.
I disagree. Men can be breathtakingly dismissive of women’s issues.
…I take it you’re a man?
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