Gender Discussion #19

[CookieZippy]

Absolutely love this.

 

[nothanksbabes]

what an arrogant assertion. A

You provide the statistics honey.

Why is it my responsibility to spoon feed you information that is freely available? I have made no claims to you. You have come into this thread to prove us wrong, so the burden of proof lies with you, honey.

For what it's worth, I've spent my entire adult life around gender non-conforming people and think it is something to be celebrated.

What I don't believe is that being a woman is a nebulous "feeling", and I don't think men's crimes (rape) should be recorded as women's, or that women should be hounded out of jobs and visited by the police for asserting that biological sex is real and that humans are a sexually dimorphic species.

I think trans people deserve safe spaces, I just don't think it is womens' responsibility to facilitate that, and I think to expect that is misogynistic.

 

[nothanksbabes]

There's a trans woman at work. I didn't work here before they transitioned but a colleague did, and he said to me yesterday, "and when he came out everyone said, 'oh you're so brave', but he was married to a woman and they were trying for a baby and I don't think that's brave, I think you lied to your wife and that makes you a dick"

I couldn't agree more. Its one thing to be confused, or suffer dysphoria, or whatever, but to drag someone else into your charade and then blow up their life is contemptible.

 

[Blue pumpkin]

 

[Vanelope]

We aren’t spoon feeding you - go and have a read - there is plenty of information in previous threads about what is concerning. Coming in, making a big noise, calling names, demanding everyone give you examples…. Remind you of anyone.

 

[bcfc999]

Ok, as a trans inclusive lesbian I don’t understand how we’re being fucked over at all? All I see here are a bunch of bigots hiding behind misinformation in order to further their agenda. None of you here speak for me at all. I am shocked by the hysteria and hatred spewed on these threads. It reminds me of the homophobia of the 80s, and the apartheid of the USA and South Africa.

Do you not think that having men able to self-ID as women to get into rape support groups constitutes fucking women over? Or elderly women in care homes who aren't allowed a sex preference for those doing their personal care, or even just women wanting to change in a women's-only changing room where staff have been told they have to let in anyone who is carrying clothes marketed as women's? How about young girls who have been brought up as trans because they preferred to play with cars, and the young women who are dealing with the lasting trauma of having their breasts removed as teenagers? I'm glad you personally don't feel we're being fucked over, but some of us do, and I really don't think being concerned about self-ID or the erosion of women's sex-based rights makes me a bigot.

 

[Gemgemgemgem]

Ahhh why why why haven’t I found this thread sooner?!

my best friend throughout school. Her husband of 6 years, father of their two little girls was apparently born into the wrong body. Obviously always knew this but didn’t realise until he messed up my friend’s life got married and brought two innocent children into the world.

my friend is an absolute darling and has stuck by him throughout his transition. Funnily enough despite this yearning to be a woman, does he/she/it do anything regarded as ‘woman’ jobs around the home?! Feck if it does. My lovely friend is still the one juggling the mental load of the family doing the vast majority of housework and raising the children as well as being supportive to the wanker she married who decides to spend his free time brushing his wig and putting on perfume while prancing around in dresses organising lunch with the ladies, which ironically his wife is never invited to. Do I believe men like this really want to be a woman? No friggin way! They take the aspects of female they like and leave the real ‘womanly’ shit to the actual women because of their fucking male privilege lets them believe they can pick and choose which part of being a woman applies to them.
do they hate women that much that they want to eradicate us?!
no safe spaces exist for a woman anymore. They’re at breastfeeding (sorry chest feeding) support classes getting more one on one time with their dollys than a brand new struggling mother whose newborn baby is struggling to latch. But to hell if that innocent baby’s nutrition and life is more important than some grown man playing with his doll playing dress up.
Rape crisis centres. They have full access as long as they identify as being a woman. They don’t even need to look the part. How fucking intimidating that must be to a rape victim? But of course her feelings are irrelevant as long as David in his floral dungarees doesn’t feel excluded. Like hello, this is a way for attackers to further intimidate their victims if all they have to say is they feel more Christina than Chris this afternoon while following their victim into a centre. What about women escaping domestic violence seeking refuge and then their abusers being let in. Prisons… I’m sure I read an incident where a trans woman was in a female prison somewhere in the world and then went on to rape several inmates but nothing was done. Little girls going into toilets alone? Just doesn’t bare thinking about. A penis never belongs in a rape crisis centre or female toilet. Anyone who disagrees is not right in the head. Trans men and women can have their own spaces, but instead they want the female spaces.

of course a few people are genuinely born into the wrong bodies and quietly transition and just go about their business causing no harm. But the ones shouting from the rooftops are the ones who is making a mockery of the genuine trans community.

 

[Peachsquish]

Ok, as a trans inclusive lesbian I don’t understand how we’re being fucked over at all? All I see here are a bunch of bigots hiding behind misinformation in order to further their agenda. None of you here speak for me at all. I am shocked by the hysteria and hatred spewed on these threads. It reminds me of the homophobia of the 80s, and the apartheid of the USA and South Africa.

Clearly you don't speak for all lesbians. No lesbian should be pressured to include male bodied people in their dating pool no matter how they identify. And if they do perhaps they need to accept the possibility they might be pansexual (or bi or even straight) rather than a lesbian.

ETA No one should feel pressured to date anyone to be inclusive. Sexual preferences are real and valid. Anyone who pressures someone into sex just to validate their own identity has serious problems. People who have gender dysphoria should be supported and not discriminated against but it is not discrimination to not want to sleep with or date someone.

 

[maytoseptember]

Caroline Farrow has been alluding to the ways in which Harrop harassed and threatened her. What he did was so sinister

This fucking reply though. Exemplary victim blaming

She’s not quiet about where she lives.

Ah, so it’s JKR’s fault for living in a city and not on a remote island somewhere?

No nuance with these people, as always. There’s a difference between having a well-known address and what those TRAs did. Standing outside the house, taking a photo (which reveals the address) and broadcasting it to your JKR-hating followers… that’s rather different.

 

[Satisfying Click]

Homophobia and misogyny in one

 

[CariettaWhite]

Ok, as a trans inclusive lesbian I don’t understand how we’re being fucked over at all? All I see here are a bunch of bigots hiding behind misinformation in order to further their agenda. None of you here speak for me at all. I am shocked by the hysteria and hatred spewed on these threads. It reminds me of the homophobia of the 80s, and the apartheid of the USA and South Africa.

You can include men in your dating pool if you like. It’s entirely up to you. I don’t care who you sleep with. You don’t speak for ME. See how it works?
But standing up for womens rights and insisting on women only spaces/sports is NOTHING like homophobia.
Allowing and encouraging fucking CHILDREN to mutilate themselves in order to trans the gay away - THAT’S homophobia.

 

[CookieZippy]

Any lesbian that includes men in their dating pool is not a lesbian and is kidding herself. End of story.

 

[Luisa18]

Missed the nazi/hitler comparison and then we’d have our trifecta of insults.

 

[Platformcrocs]

I saw a bunch of tweets from some UK drag queens attacking JKR with the usual transphobic claims and that trans people are "literally being murdered because of transphobic agendas" which got me thinking...

First of all, JKR isn't responsible for murdering anyone and last time I checked, the trans women who have been murdered were killed by a man. Male on male violence.

And second... I guess it's OK for drag queens to dress as women and put on a pair of fake boobs when it suits, but when it comes to actually standing up for women? No chance. And especially not if you're a "cis" woman. I've got a bit of a difficult relationship with drag as I used to be quite involved in that community through a couple of close friends who do drag, but there are many issues with it and a lot of the queens are very openly misogynistic. Some of them will happily cultivate a fanbase of younger girls (who are really just looking for friendship and a community) and push the TWAW crap on to them, and openly call them out if they don't fall in line. I've taken a big step back lately (lockdown stopped all events anyway) but yeah, think I'm kinda done with it all.

 

[sheleg]

It's funny, isn't it, that it's very clear what a woman is when a couple is seeking a surrogate.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

The fact that this poster compared trans stuff to the gay rights movement of the 80s or Apartheid really shows that a lot of people (mistakenly) believe that trans is the new civil rights movement. It has *nothing* to do with either of those things

 

[CookieZippy]

That EVIL LGB Alliance bag in action.....

 

[jewelkitty]

Re the Brit awards

 

[AlanBanan]

I really have to question these men who supposedly didn’t know that their partners were trans. Either they have very little experience with natal women, or they secretly knew that their girlfriends were trans and chose not to say anything about it.

We all know that trans women are almost always clockable straight away, and yet so many trans women peddle this myth that they’re unclockable. Height… build… voice… surgically constructed neo vagina… all big clues.

 

[Quokka]

Ok, as a trans inclusive lesbian I don’t understand how we’re being fucked over at all? All I see here are a bunch of bigots hiding behind misinformation in order to further their agenda. None of you here speak for me at all. I am shocked by the hysteria and hatred spewed on these threads. It reminds me of the homophobia of the 80s, and the apartheid of the USA and South Africa.

It isn't the first time we've been called bigots (or TERFS or add-insult-here) and I guarantee it won't be the last. It's a bit sad that people who have genuine concern and want single, safe spaces for women are now seen as akin to monsters and abusers. None of us are saying they can't have their own spaces, just don't take ours. But you don't have to agree and you're more than entitled to your opinion, I suppose.