Gender Discussion #17

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This makes me so sad. I'm an academic and first years fill me with absolute dread, the silence, the disinterest, empty 9am lectures and general can't be bothered attitude. It gets better when they've specifically chosen your modules in second/third year etc but honestly I'm not sure why half of these kids bother going to uni, it seems so many just want to scrape through without engaging much. Tbh I think too many people go to uni now without thinking about it, what do you think @judgejohndeed? It's like it's the next natural progression from school, and has nothing to do with career choices etc.
So many of them would have benefited from working for a year before going to uni. I was only a few years older than most of them and there was a big gap in maturity and general life experience.
 
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So many of them would have benefited from working for a year before going to uni. I was only a few years older than most of them and there was a big gap in maturity and general life experience.
I do think some sort of retail / customer service focused paid national service would be good - it would give people the opportunity to learn how to behave professionally and stop people who otherwise never would have done those jobs being such dicks to employees.

It would also be really handy for those who didn't do great in their exams, and who struggle to get an entry level job because they don't have enough 'experience'.

Though I don't think it would work in reality. People would just never turn up.
 
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Musing about youngsters and resilience here. I realise anecdote is not data blah blah. During the time my two daughters were both at uni, one first year and one 3rd year they had to display extreme resilience. Their grandmother died, the dog had to be pts, their father diagnosed with stage 3 cancer, friend of one committed suicide plus lots of other normal life stuff. They both came through it, although yes they did ask for essay extensions etc, and they've both got 2:1s and full time jobs. I'm really proud of them, and they both have a work ethic. I suspect it's because they've seen their Dad and I always working, and coping with tit. I'm also quite an anxious person, but have tried to never let them see it, or certainly not until they were late teens.

But, I would say roughly half of their friends are the same, and the other half are the less capable variety for want of a better phrase. So I dont know whether it's nature or nurture, the ones who find it harder to cope seem to be the ones with less supportive parents - nothing to do with level of education or intellectual ability. Sorry, rambling!
 
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I do think some sort of retail / customer service focused paid national service would be good - it would give people the opportunity to learn how to behave professionally and stop people who otherwise never would have done those jobs being such dicks to employees.

It would also be really handy for those who didn't do great in their exams, and who struggle to get an entry level job because they don't have enough 'experience'.

Though I don't think it would work in reality. People would just never turn up.
This. I've worked in customer facing positions and a bar and it was always painfully obvious when dealing with customers who has and hasn't done similar work- as a general rule most people who have done similar know the tit you can get so they treat service staff with respect
 
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My hairdresser was talking to me about apprentices the other day, he said he liked one of them, she had a good attitude and personality. I said is that unusual. He said yes, a lot of them don’t have a clue. He says they all have “ issues” - he did the quotes. I asked him what he meant. He said some of them are insolent, and back chatting in front of customers, even when asked to do the most basic thing. (He reprimands them later.) And he said he is tired of them treating him like a parent rather than an employer. He has to sit and listen to them - they all want to tell him about their anxieties. He said they say they have anxieties when you ask them to do X (basic stuff) and if he says do you have anxieties when you do something you enjoy, they say no. He tries to tell them that feeling nervous about new stuff is a normal part of life, and using anxiety as an excuse not to do something is not on, but they are all on planet Me. He just wants to go home and see his own kids and has to act as some type of parent to other people’s kids. He is in his late 30s, so not methuselah.
Our juniors at work are all early to mid 20s and I have to say apart from one who enjoys pushing work into other people including upwards a bit too much - all of them are a pleasure to work with. They take constructive feedback, they have a good attitude they aren’t off sick a lot and they are eager to learn although it’s very hard doing professional exams and a full time job. It’s a big firm so they will have gone through a process to get here and they can see the rewards to come but not all the kids are a problem.
 
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I don't think anyone was saying all kids are the problem, more just that *in general* there can be differences between those who've grown up in a social media era and in an era where parents want to be seen as the cool Mom or Dad or whatever and those who haven't. No doubt every generation says the same thing. It's hard to deny when we see it playing out on social media, particularly in the case of trans activists who fall apart over the slightest thing
 
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Generations are totally different - I’m glad I didn’t grow up with social media and my embarrassing stories are just stories. I think younger people who spend more time in the real world and less time trying to get clout on Twitter are more equipped for work.
 
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Totally agree. I'm glad no one was there with a camera phone when I was making a show of myself in my youth, not that that ever happened, ahem
 
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Maybe the tide is changing


Source
I can’t read the whole article because it’s behind paywall but just from this headline I would guess this would also mean that it’s illegal to tell trans children they’re the gender they were born…or am I understanding it wrong?
 
I think things will be very hard for the current group of A level/uni students who have the Covid impact to deal with as well, because they havent had the opportunity to get Saturday jobs/socialise/grow up freely. Poor things.
 
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I have to say my experience as an academic was the same. When I was an undergrad (not even that long ago to be honest) if we had turned up to seminars without doing the key reading we would be kicked out of the class. The tutor would pick on random students and expect us to know key cases (this was an LLB degree) and if someone was obviously unprepared they’d be asked to leave. When I was teaching, we weren’t allowed to pick on students to ask questions because it ‘causes anxiety’ so you’d often sit there in silence waiting for someone to answer a question. You’re encouraged not to fill silences to encourage students to have a go at answering, but I found this irritating and frankly painful. Same with deadlines for essays, and even exams. When I was an undergrad you needed a medical note to get an extension. I hate to sound all ‘back in my day’ but honestly I do think academia has gone up tit creek without a paddle these days, it’s sad to see in such a short space of time.
how are any of these people going to cope in the real world?! God as a teacher the idea of standing in a lecture room in silence as no one answers fills me with dread :ROFLMAO:

It’s definitely shifted in the past 5 -10 years. When I was at uni 13-10 years ago I had literature seminars and you were the odd one out if you DIDN’T have anything to add to the discussion - studying and keeping up seemed to be the order of the day. Facebook Twitter etc were around of course but we weren’t being advertised to/groomed at the same level. I think schooling is failing kids and not preparing them for the world of work or higher education to be honest. I know of a couple of 21 year olds who have been looking for jobs for 3 years each and they only last a few weeks at places because they have no work ethic, they don’t want to do anything, they don’t participate in bringing solutions or helping others etc. These are family friends and they are to be quite honest, pathetic. I think something has happened in the last 5 years where kids are coddled too much and given false entitlement and it shows. They also don’t seem to know how debate and polite discussion works.
I agree, I think also part of it is that there are a few (in relative terms) wildly successful influencers who are basically raking i money for doing nothing and this is seemingly what a lot of young people aspire to. I mean I would love money for nothing (wouldn't we all) but I didn't grow up with that even being on my radar
 
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Another incredible Guardian article:


I actually quite like the idea of men rallying round each other how women do when they're about become parents, and sharing tips and looking after each other, as some of the men in this article describe. However it's pretty bleeping entitled that some of these men think they have somehow earned it to go get fucked up in Ibiza for a week while their wives and girlfriends are at home about to give birth, and pat themselves on the back about it.
 
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Dadchelor can duck right off along with the trend to invent cringey words. I'm sorry and I know I might sound judgey but if that's honestly their biggest worry about becoming a parent then I'd wonder if being a parent is for them

Becoming a parent requires huge sacrifices, financially, emotionally, mentally, sacrifices I'm not up to. It should be the least of their worries
 
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Dadchelor can duck right off along with the trend to invent cringey words. I'm sorry and I know I might sound judgey but if that's honestly their biggest worry about becoming a parent then I'd wonder if being a parent is for them

Becoming a parent requires huge sacrifices, financially, emotionally, mentally, sacrifices I'm not up to. It should be the least of their worries
Makes you wonder how the 39 year old man who says his girlfriend is "threatening" to marry him is going to cope with parenthood when he's apparently not mature enough to have a conversation about marriage with the person he's willing to have a child with.

I absolutely support the idea of normalising men coming together to support each other when one becomes a parent, because I think women generally tend to have much better social support. But I have tons of problems with the idea that this is the end of your whole life forever and you'll never have fun again, so better go to Ibiza before the baby comes!
 
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Dadchelor can duck right off along with the trend to invent cringey words. I'm sorry and I know I might sound judgey but if that's honestly their biggest worry about becoming a parent then I'd wonder if being a parent is for them

Becoming a parent requires huge sacrifices, financially, emotionally, mentally, sacrifices I'm not up to. It should be the least of their worries
this is just another way companies have found to make money. When people started going on a "babymoon" etc... just a commercial exercise.
But yeh, poor men, such a life change for them having children. So easy for women
 
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Penelope Jackson has been sentenced. Looks like the judge had some pretty scathing comments for her.
 
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