Gender Discussion #15

[Ispyabudgetbeanblogger]

I cannot believe a teacher is advocating that book for young children. Drag is adult entertainment, it is not for children.

Like many others on here, I personally find drag to be extremely misogynistic; an offensive parody of womanhood. Just look at terms such as "fishy" and "hunty". I suppose those of us who feel this way are "some of the worst people in society".

Look at how she says "as a cis-gender white woman". The self-loathing pours out.

It's pretty depressing. This teacher really believes she's fighting the good fight. She thinks she's doing the right thing - that this type of book is somehow 'representation' and will help her students. When really, kids that age from same sex families should just be able to see their families represented in books - and it wouldn't harm kids from straight families to realise that other families exist. Showing things like, mum making breakfast while mummy helps me brush my teeth. Dad reading with me while papa gives my baby brother his bottle.

Preschool kids love books that show their life - there's a reason there are so many books published about kids going to preschool, kids playing in the park, kids helping around the house, kids starting school, kids riding the bus, kids making friends, kids falling out and making up again, etc. Books and stories help kids make sense of their lives. It prepares them for new experiences and helps them think and talk about experiences they've already had.

I don't think drag should be an experience kids have had. It's for adults. Just like many films, video games, song lyrics, etc. It's not prudish to say certain things are not for children. I'm not homophobic for not letting my 8-year-old watch 'It's a sin'. It's a great bit of TV, but it's not for kids.

 

[nothanksbabes]

Long time lurker but I feel like I need some affirmation that I'm not overreacting. I feel utterly despondent this morning.

There is a cafe in Glasgow touting itself as anarchist in its politics with a specific focus on solidarity with 'queer' and Jewish people. They're staunchly anti-police, and to be honest I don't really have a problem with that sentiment because I've worked with the police in the past and even before the recent horrifying news I would trust them as far as I can throw them, and because the cafe itself is in an area of Glasgow where there has been significant overpolicing especially of Romani people and migrants. What I've had a problem with in the past is that they deliberately antagonise the police, meaning the very people who have been victimised by overpolicing have to deal with even more scrutiny in their neighbourhood. That's its own issue, and I respect that there will be a variety of views on anti-police sentiment.

What I'm really upset about now is that the same day Couzens was sentenced they tweeted that they were selling handcuff keys and advised that they were totally legal to carry. There was a big backlash to this, obviously. What that says is either that Sarah perhaps could have been saved by having this device which REEKS of victim blaming OR that people who have been lifted on fairly minor (or in Sarah's case non existent) charges should risk adding the far riskier charge of resisting arrest. Either way we are not talking about a strategy that prioritises the safety of those of who are vulnerable. Now they're claiming that they hadn't been thinking of Sarah's murder (must be nice!!!!), that they had COP26 in mind when they jumped on this little branding opportunity. I'm sure this is a lie. They tweeted it the DAY OF sentencing. They saw Sarah's story as an opportunity. I'm disgusted.

I have always been involved in left-wing organising and to me the forefront of it always has to be safety. So why is it that I'm constantly organising with and around men who treat the safety of women as a negligible afterthought? I remember raising women's safety as an issue during the Occupy movement and being given the brush then - and a woman was grape at the camp in Glasgow. I really wish my male so-called comrades cared about my safety as much as they do the cause.

I thought this when the occupy movement was at its peak. It made me feel a bit hopeless, like society always reorganises itself in the same way, with men abusing women.

 

[Brigitjonesbuttcheek]

This is a good advert for who NOT to buy books from. Their response is to a teacher who said they wouldn’t feel comfortable reading this book to children and rightly so.

Also last I checked drag wasn’t trans, so how is it transphobic?

I don't see any transphobia or offensive comments. The only abusive comment is from the person calling the people with reservations "duck head's". If the posters thinks that is the dark side of the internet, she has lived a very sheltered life.

 

[skronkywildcat]

I’m really sad about the Labour Party - I read the latest free email from the Glinner list and I feel pretty hopeless in that even the conservatives are calling cautious management of childhood gender dysphoria “conversion therapy” - in that, if you don’t affirm and give hormones you are doing the same thing as send gay people to straight conversion therapy. It’s not the same thing, this is so wrong.

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

I wish I had the means to leave this dog tit country. I dunno where I’d go, so many countries seem taken in by this, but I absolutely hate living in England right now. Everything that happens just makes me so angry.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I think so many places are captured but Tranada seems the worst of all

I'm also fuming that obese mediocre athlete Hubbard won sportswoman of the year in New Zealand. What an insult

 

[weeweegie]

I just saw this stupid tiktok of a trans man who is a dad and used a sperm donor to have his child. It was one of those daft ones where they answer questions while doing a stupid thing with their hands. When asked who is the bio dad, he said the sperm donor doesn’t make them the bio dad. What? So what are they then? A man has literally given you his sperm so you can have a child and you are saying that person isn’t the biological dad? What about history of illness from the sperm donor, does that not exist because you don’t want it to? I despair.
I also honestly do not understand a trans man wanting to get pregnant, the most female thing you can do. Isn’t that having your cake and eating it too? Not wanting to be cruel but it’s feckin bizarre.

 

[Platformcrocs]

Oh no I missed the "not all men" post

Speaks volumes when a man will happily stay silent about male violence towards women, but the minute anyone suggests that it's a male problem, they'll pipe up with "but not all men are violent". They're part of the problem.

 

[nothanksbabes]

I just saw this stupid tiktok of a trans man who is a dad and used a sperm donor to have his child. It was one of those daft ones where they answer questions while doing a stupid thing with their hands. When asked who is the bio dad, he said the sperm donor doesn’t make them the bio dad. What? So what are they then? A man has literally given you his sperm so you can have a child and you are saying that person isn’t the biological dad? What about history of illness from the sperm donor, does that not exist because you don’t want it to? I despair.
I also honestly do not understand a trans man wanting to get pregnant, the most female thing you can do. Isn’t that having your cake and eating it too? Not wanting to be cruel but it’s feckin bizarre.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like much of a commitment to being a man to get pregnant.

I think many people don't actually consider the impact their actions will have on their children. I was adopted before I was a year old and not knowing my biological parents has had a huge impact on my llfe, although it took until my 30s to realise it.

tit happens in llfe but I'm really uncomfortable with people deliberately engineering situations where their children will be denied the opportunity to a relationship with a biological parent (obviously not including situations with hole absentee parents).

 

[sheleg]

a specific focus on solidarity with 'queer' and Jewish people

Can you tell me more about the Jewish element? Because I'm not aware of many groups on the Left being pro-Jewish! (I say that as a Jewish leftie myself)

 

[Begborrowsteal]

Just popped the tv on and its Doctors. Yep, a storyline about trans.

 

[Very traditional]

Just popped the tv on and its Doctors. Yep, a storyline about trans.

Oh god don't, I was at my Nans last week or maybe the week before and it's one of her fave programmes, that day the doctors were having awareness training - it was ridiculous, all different flags and whatnot. My Nan is nearly 90, she isn't interested in all this and it shouldn't be forced on people!

 

[Satisfying Click]

The actor is Jake Graf, married to Hannah Graf (who is a patron of Mermaids). They've had a baby via surrogacy.

 

[maytoseptember]

The actor is Jake Graf, married to Hannah Graf (who is a patron of Mermaids). They've had a baby via surrogacy.

Oh I remember those names, they filmed a documentary about the surrogacy process iirc. I couldn’t bear to watch it, but apparently neither came out well?

 

[dorotheabrooke]

Can you tell me more about the Jewish element? Because I'm not aware of many groups on the Left being pro-Jewish! (I say that as a Jewish leftie myself)

I certainly don't want to speak on their behalf but I believe that the owners are Jewish, they close for Shabbat, sell traditionally Jewish foods, host fundraisers and events around high holy days etc. They also use Yiddish in their menus. I did notice on their socials recently that they say they're unlikely to be Kosher certified for unspecified reasons, not sure what that's about.

 

[Zenchick101]

I just saw this stupid tiktok of a trans man who is a dad and used a sperm donor to have his child. It was one of those daft ones where they answer questions while doing a stupid thing with their hands. When asked who is the bio dad, he said the sperm donor doesn’t make them the bio dad. What? So what are they then? A man has literally given you his sperm so you can have a child and you are saying that person isn’t the biological dad? What about history of illness from the sperm donor, does that not exist because you don’t want it to? I despair.
I also honestly do not understand a trans man wanting to get pregnant, the most female thing you can do. Isn’t that having your cake and eating it too? Not wanting to be cruel but it’s feckin bizarre.

When I hear stories like these I just think many people are a)ignorant b)stupid c)more emotional then logical. A variation of the three.

 

[Satisfying Click]

Oh I remember those names, they filmed a documentary about the surrogacy process iirc. I couldn’t bear to watch it, but apparently neither came out well?

I haven't watched it either, I can't bear to watch anything related to surrogacy, especially with the propaganda surrounding it at the moment. Jake Tweeted about the Kiera Bell appeal in that the law should not have changed based on a single case, ignoring how case law works (though in this instance, it was a judicial review)

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I just saw this stupid tiktok of a trans man who is a dad and used a sperm donor to have his child. It was one of those daft ones where they answer questions while doing a stupid thing with their hands. When asked who is the bio dad, he said the sperm donor doesn’t make them the bio dad. What? So what are they then? A man has literally given you his sperm so you can have a child and you are saying that person isn’t the biological dad? What about history of illness from the sperm donor, does that not exist because you don’t want it to? I despair.
I also honestly do not understand a trans man wanting to get pregnant, the most female thing you can do. Isn’t that having your cake and eating it too? Not wanting to be cruel but it’s feckin bizarre.

If they've given birth they're not a Dad. This madness needs to end

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

The actor is Jake Graf, married to Hannah Graf (who is a patron of Mermaids). They've had a baby via surrogacy.

They are an insufferable couple.

 

[Vanelope]

When did not wanting sexualised content in classrooms become homophobic?

Pre- and primary school kids should learn about different types of families, not about men dressing up as women for sexualised entertainment. Would a picture book about women 'empowered by sex work' be appropriate? Perhaps a story about how mummy and daddy enjoy dressing up for each other? Actually, I'd rather not hear the answer from these deluded adults.

Primary school recommended reading lists for PSE include picture books with all kinds of families including ones with two dads and two mums or single parents. It is all about relationships and families. NOTHING to do with sex. So keeping sexualised literature and themes like drag out of it is not homophobic it is safeguarding. What a time when grown adults argue against safeguarding children. See also girl guides not informing parents of boys who identify as trans sleeping in the same spaces as girls.