I didn't want to miss any of the show! We'd been in lockdown forever at that point, I probably forgot where all my bras were located. Ted covered the chest quite well, I just couldn't wave him around.
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morning Fraus, just wondered if anyone had any advice - looked to see if there was a thread on this kind of thing anywhere but couldn't find one. Am worried about a friend right now - went to her house earlier in the week to see if she had a dress I could borrow for a wedding this weekend, she seemed out of sorts, when I was looking in her wardrobe I found 6 empty vodka bottles hidden in there. I questioned it, she broke down and told me she's secretly drinking at least half a bottle a day, and is taking cocaine to try and seem sober in front of people. She told me I was under no circumstances allowed to tell anyone especially her OH, that she's just going through a rough patch at work and it's helping her cope. Since then she won't reply to any of my messages. I'm really worried and am considering calling her OH to tell him - tbh I'd rather her not speak to me than continue doing this but also I know people need to want to stop to be able to. Had a look online and am considering calling al anon for advice. Would that be too pushy? I want to help but don't know how, or how much would be an acceptable level of involvement. It's so hard!
Sorry for bringing the mood down, hope everyone is doing ok xx
I can't offer any insight here, I think @heretoreaditall2019 and @Rekyavikgirl might be the best women to give you some advice but just wanted to send huge hugs, it's a hell of a position to be in and I'm so sorry you have this decision to make.
PS I've grunked but cannot find who it is that's dealing with an inquest. I have a friend currently going through similar (I don't think you're the same person!) and I know how hard it can be. Sending sparkly vibes to you too, just know this internet stranger is thinking of you xX
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Thank you lovely - it's tough and v sensitive so don't want to overstep boundaries! Xx
How well do you know her OH? Would you be able to message him, not to tell him about the drink/drugs but tentatively ask how she is, you'd noticed she didn't seem herself the other day, is all ok etc? Might open the door to a discussion without you betraying her confidence, and get her OH looking a bit closer if he hasn't noticed anything (some men can be very oblivious!)
I know him really well - he was actually my friend first, introduced me to his new gf a few years ago and I basically stole her to be my friend. That's a good idea, could say she seemed off then I haven't heard from her since despite multiple messages. Tbh that's what I'd do if I'd been to see her and she was the way she was/is being now if I hadn't found out what was going on.
So glad I have you guys to ask this as I feel like I'd be breaking confidences asking people IRL so thank you xx
Omg hello dear heart! You cycle?! Omg you brave soul! How is that for you? Tbh that area doesn’t look as bad as Shoreditch way which feels like hell for cyclists.
I’m very rarely in the office these days thankfully/sadly
are you in a lot? And are you in fashion or books or theatre loool if you don’t mind me asking? It still feels less busy than pre pandemic doesn’t it. I read some research that said it’s -20% but it feels like less than half ngl.Also so excited the American candy shops are getting busted
Firstly there aren’t any hard and fast rules and tbh anyone you call up and speak to is going to provide some insight and be able to direct you to resources. So there is no wrong/right way to approach it most importantly!
Alanon is a fellowship for those embroiled in the lives of addicts so children of alcohol parents (although there’s also ACA for them but it’s a v small fellowship with few meetings) or wives or husbands etc. It’d be a good resource for you personally and her boyfriend, but it sounds like she needs help with drink/drug consumption so AA would be a good start. They’ve got a telephone service you can call up and someone can call her back for a chat & accompany her to her first meeting. If it’s an open meeting (it’ll say) you can attend too! You’re not made to share but they only ask you don’t share if you’ve drunk or used that day.
Re being a young woman in sobriety - there’s quite a fair few of us?? I’m not gonna lie it does skew more make and older and most the meetings you go to (especially if it’s in the ends rather than central city locations) will be a bit men heavy but it’s so important to listen to the similarities and not the differences. Like yeah Julie and the kids haven’t left you cos you’re 23 living in a housing crisis hun but you’ve also been too anxious to leave the house or you’ve been so late to something you’ve just never turned up at all lol.
There are also some young persons meetings, personally for me I’ve never gelled with them but it’s defs something to do! And also tbh it gives you hope that you can be a “normal” young person and not drinking or using. That was the hardest thing about it all really, feeling like you’d be a social pariah / there was something wrong with you that meant you had all this shame and self hatred and no one else did? A lot of them a decade on are now entering the rooms so turns out we’re never really alone in our misery lol.
It’s a shame this can’t be an IRL convo as it’s so nuanced and I want to reassure you that this negative bit is bad but not bad if that makes sense. I don’t want to sound negative but also try not to get your hopes up in a way, the key to abstinence is your own willing and also conceding that you’re done, this is it, there’s no way through this as is big changes need to happen. They say some people just haven’t hit their rock bottom yet so go back out there. Sorry to me-rail (is this whole post a me rail?) but my situation with my brother is a v good example of this. I repeatedly get my hopes up that he’ll stop the j1g, I’ve done everything in my power but sadly the last decade has just had to be me putting up stricter boundaries and pulling back. It was our birthdays a few weeks ago so I decided to do something as he’s now single (because of his behaviour, which she in part enabled but she’s a victim in this all and needs alanon tbh so I need to find compassion) so wouldn’t have anyone else to do this with & he obviously mucked me around with time and location so I just went home in the end. Like this isn’t
but I guess we also have to check ourselves for what we’re expecting from people who aren’t well? Like back in the day thought he’d leap at the chance to get well and be grateful he had a tour guide but he just didn’t, his behaviour was so bad in fact I’d say it traumatised me. And reaching out and showing kindness at a low point I hoped would serve as attraction not promotion to sobriety, but it was just ignored altogether. Like sorry this isn’t saying stay away cos you’re doing such a loving and caring thing and you sound like such an amazing friend but just make sure you’re setting your expectations low / safeguarding yourself in all of this. In my instance as well it was probs a bit of ego/arrogance that of COURSE he would want what I have. And doubly - part of why I was so upset by it all was cos I feel his behaviour and something he said to an old timer really embarrassed me and that’s my tit not his? But anyway the point of that is we can’t have expectations of our people, we can’t assume it’ll work, and we can’t be upset when someone doesn’t behave in the way we want them to. Sorry if that sounds patronising and maybe this isn’t something mentally well people need reminding of but I wish I had this tattooed on my eyeballs before I started down that road.
Tbh Alanon would be a really good resource for you on this journey as it can be really hard, like being lied to or disappointed is part of the package but it hurts so bad every time. Like remember to safeguard your own heart it all of this cos it is tough.
Sending love and sorry if that sounded negative, it’s not at all I just don’t want you to abandon yourself and end up unwell in it all. You’re doing SUCH a loving wonderful thing & your friend is so lucky to have you. There are many other sober fraus on these threads too btw and there’s no such thing as a universal opinion, I can only give you what I’ve got if that makes sense? Others can share what they’ve got which may be more relevant so definitely start speaking to people about it!
There’s a few very active communities on Reddit I used a lot in early days that may be useful?
Alanon is a fellowship for those embroiled in the lives of addicts so children of alcohol parents (although there’s also ACA for them but it’s a v small fellowship with few meetings) or wives or husbands etc. It’d be a good resource for you personally and her boyfriend, but it sounds like she needs help with drink/drug consumption so AA would be a good start. They’ve got a telephone service you can call up and someone can call her back for a chat & accompany her to her first meeting. If it’s an open meeting (it’ll say) you can attend too! You’re not made to share but they only ask you don’t share if you’ve drunk or used that day.
Re being a young woman in sobriety - there’s quite a fair few of us?? I’m not gonna lie it does skew more make and older and most the meetings you go to (especially if it’s in the ends rather than central city locations) will be a bit men heavy but it’s so important to listen to the similarities and not the differences. Like yeah Julie and the kids haven’t left you cos you’re 23 living in a housing crisis hun but you’ve also been too anxious to leave the house or you’ve been so late to something you’ve just never turned up at all lol.
There are also some young persons meetings, personally for me I’ve never gelled with them but it’s defs something to do! And also tbh it gives you hope that you can be a “normal” young person and not drinking or using. That was the hardest thing about it all really, feeling like you’d be a social pariah / there was something wrong with you that meant you had all this shame and self hatred and no one else did? A lot of them a decade on are now entering the rooms so turns out we’re never really alone in our misery lol.
It’s a shame this can’t be an IRL convo as it’s so nuanced and I want to reassure you that this negative bit is bad but not bad if that makes sense. I don’t want to sound negative but also try not to get your hopes up in a way, the key to abstinence is your own willing and also conceding that you’re done, this is it, there’s no way through this as is big changes need to happen. They say some people just haven’t hit their rock bottom yet so go back out there. Sorry to me-rail (is this whole post a me rail?) but my situation with my brother is a v good example of this. I repeatedly get my hopes up that he’ll stop the j1g, I’ve done everything in my power but sadly the last decade has just had to be me putting up stricter boundaries and pulling back. It was our birthdays a few weeks ago so I decided to do something as he’s now single (because of his behaviour, which she in part enabled but she’s a victim in this all and needs alanon tbh so I need to find compassion) so wouldn’t have anyone else to do this with & he obviously mucked me around with time and location so I just went home in the end. Like this isn’t
but I guess we also have to check ourselves for what we’re expecting from people who aren’t well? Like back in the day thought he’d leap at the chance to get well and be grateful he had a tour guide but he just didn’t, his behaviour was so bad in fact I’d say it traumatised me. And reaching out and showing kindness at a low point I hoped would serve as attraction not promotion to sobriety, but it was just ignored altogether. Like sorry this isn’t saying stay away cos you’re doing such a loving and caring thing and you sound like such an amazing friend but just make sure you’re setting your expectations low / safeguarding yourself in all of this. In my instance as well it was probs a bit of ego/arrogance that of COURSE he would want what I have. And doubly - part of why I was so upset by it all was cos I feel his behaviour and something he said to an old timer really embarrassed me and that’s my tit not his? But anyway the point of that is we can’t have expectations of our people, we can’t assume it’ll work, and we can’t be upset when someone doesn’t behave in the way we want them to. Sorry if that sounds patronising and maybe this isn’t something mentally well people need reminding of but I wish I had this tattooed on my eyeballs before I started down that road.Tbh Alanon would be a really good resource for you on this journey as it can be really hard, like being lied to or disappointed is part of the package but it hurts so bad every time. Like remember to safeguard your own heart it all of this cos it is tough.
Sending love and sorry if that sounded negative, it’s not at all I just don’t want you to abandon yourself and end up unwell in it all. You’re doing SUCH a loving wonderful thing & your friend is so lucky to have you. There are many other sober fraus on these threads too btw and there’s no such thing as a universal opinion, I can only give you what I’ve got if that makes sense? Others can share what they’ve got which may be more relevant so definitely start speaking to people about it!
There’s a few very active communities on Reddit I used a lot in early days that may be useful?
@Jay-cloth Cow
I'd like to suggest being very open about it, to break the secrecy that goes hand in hand with the drinking and the "line to straighten me out".
I pause to note you must be quite shocked as well as worried.
Is it an option to invite yourself over when both are home and say the less scripted version of, "I'm so worried, X can you tell OH while I'm here what you told me?"
Cracking the secrecy is my input here. I'm troubled by the vodka, the supposed "scentless" alcohol
A hard day for you
I'd like to suggest being very open about it, to break the secrecy that goes hand in hand with the drinking and the "line to straighten me out".
I pause to note you must be quite shocked as well as worried.
Is it an option to invite yourself over when both are home and say the less scripted version of, "I'm so worried, X can you tell OH while I'm here what you told me?"
Cracking the secrecy is my input here. I'm troubled by the vodka, the supposed "scentless" alcohol
A hard day for you
This is bringing me so much joy, about bloody time!Also so excited the American candy shops are getting busted
Sorry I’m posting so much but it’s such an interesting conundrum now because the cost of maintaining a presence in that area is SO high that even luxury brands can make a loss on that specific location (know of at least 3 where this is the case). Like what is going to replace them? Especially as they’re always absolutely huge units! I was really surprised to see the old Topshop on the strand is still vacant too, apparently ikea hasn’t even moved into their old flagship yet either. Idk it’s interesting. Wonder if a ton of wework type co working spaces will just make use of it all??
I'm about to say that it never crossed my mind to go to AA. Of course this is a conversation, and not any dis-nuance about AA. (Obvs, no such word as dis-nuance, but it works for me at this moment.)
Little bit amused at myself for deleting 3 paras of my story: it's not about me.
What I want to say is that for some people, tackling the anxiety of life first may lead to stopping abusing themselves via alcohol and drugs. This could be through a clinical psychologist, or psychiatrist. It might be via anti-depressants, and/or followed up with "tools for living with anxiety" with a counsellor or psychologist.
Grace and peace to all
Little bit amused at myself for deleting 3 paras of my story: it's not about me.
What I want to say is that for some people, tackling the anxiety of life first may lead to stopping abusing themselves via alcohol and drugs. This could be through a clinical psychologist, or psychiatrist. It might be via anti-depressants, and/or followed up with "tools for living with anxiety" with a counsellor or psychologist.
Grace and peace to all
Thank you @heretoreaditall2019 and @Wooh for taking the time to be so caring and insightful - given me a lot to think about for sure. I'll have a proper think and try and sort through the options in my head. You really are wonderful ninnies xx
Thank you this is a really good point and a blind spot for me as I’m evangelical about the rooms. But I’ve had the privilege of being in London with lots of meetings to pick from & really strong fellowship in the ends. If I was in rural Yorkshire it wouldn’t be the same so yeah looking at alternatives is definitely a smart idea!
Personally for me I know my issue stemmed from really low self esteem/worth and baaaad anxiety. Agreed with Wooh if I’d have sought professional help for that maybe I would never have stopped drinking or dabbling, maybe it would have just gone back to okay levels. I was never physically addicted or behaved poorly (women rarely do, it’s why Jack’s stories make me cringe so much, we’ve been socialised differently it’s just not a common occurrence to publicly lash out?) it was my head that was terrible. There were and are ppl that consumed a lot more than me and acted sloppier but it’s where my head took me that resulted in seeking help. I’d always have ended up having down periods and binging/being destructive to my own personal life though which couldn’t work with the life I wanted (career, family, husband who doesn’t hate me lol).
There are many ways to skin a cat. I started to read a book that discussed this but I struggled with it as the author was peddling her own recovery program. And I won’t go into the ins and outs but I do think AA has problematic elements to it, ultimately it was made by white MC WASPs in the US nearly 100 years ago so it’s never going to be for everyone. I trust that it has and will continue to evolve with the times. I had a religious school upbringing so maybe I find the traditions and formality of it a comfort?
Also speaking to her GP could help, especially if she’s drinking half a bottle of vodka (that feels like a lot to me?? I was a wine and uppers girly so no idea on equivalent volumes?) she may need some medical advice on cutting that out gradually rather than cold Turkey. I genuinely have no idea on that, may be being OTT, but a GP will never be a bad shout??
Best of luck tho and please keep us updated! Ps sorry to me-rail.
Personally for me I know my issue stemmed from really low self esteem/worth and baaaad anxiety. Agreed with Wooh if I’d have sought professional help for that maybe I would never have stopped drinking or dabbling, maybe it would have just gone back to okay levels. I was never physically addicted or behaved poorly (women rarely do, it’s why Jack’s stories make me cringe so much, we’ve been socialised differently it’s just not a common occurrence to publicly lash out?) it was my head that was terrible. There were and are ppl that consumed a lot more than me and acted sloppier but it’s where my head took me that resulted in seeking help. I’d always have ended up having down periods and binging/being destructive to my own personal life though which couldn’t work with the life I wanted (career, family, husband who doesn’t hate me lol).
There are many ways to skin a cat. I started to read a book that discussed this but I struggled with it as the author was peddling her own recovery program. And I won’t go into the ins and outs but I do think AA has problematic elements to it, ultimately it was made by white MC WASPs in the US nearly 100 years ago so it’s never going to be for everyone. I trust that it has and will continue to evolve with the times. I had a religious school upbringing so maybe I find the traditions and formality of it a comfort?
Also speaking to her GP could help, especially if she’s drinking half a bottle of vodka (that feels like a lot to me?? I was a wine and uppers girly so no idea on equivalent volumes?) she may need some medical advice on cutting that out gradually rather than cold Turkey. I genuinely have no idea on that, may be being OTT, but a GP will never be a bad shout??
Best of luck tho and please keep us updated!
Ps sorry to me-rail.Whatever you decide, you're a wonderful friend. Everyone needs someone in their corner
The word I was seeking earlier was "dissonance." I've spent a pleasant 5 mins checking the etymology of the words nuance and dissonance and, FYI, they're from different roots. Unrelated. Interesting. Oh, yes it is!
The word I was seeking earlier was "dissonance." I've spent a pleasant 5 mins checking the etymology of the words nuance and dissonance and, FYI, they're from different roots. Unrelated. Interesting. Oh, yes it is!
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Whisper: I didn't go to work today, nor will I tomorrow. By 10pm yesterday a proper nasty cold had me in its grip.
I'm about to say the oddest thing: it's been so nice to have a cold! A proper minor physical ailment to suffer instead of (hypothetically,
of course) an existential dread or lassitude. And actual sick days from work! I "managed to" (self tease) turn my mattress and change bed linen last night. I squeezed some oranges this morning. I ate peanut butter on toast. WoohCat1 has purred in my arms all afternoon, in bed. WoohCat2 lay on my knees. Terribly cosy .
I acknowledge how lucky I am that I can "enjoy" it. It's been months since I've had a break from work, family, my lover's insistence she buy a house yet further
away -_- , tasks, my head. Colds are a seasonal virus, yet I'm convinced the universe sometimes says, "I'm so sick of you, have a sneeze and cups of tea and come back when you're ready to discuss your behaviour."
And a Saturday off! OMG
I'm about to say the oddest thing: it's been so nice to have a cold! A proper minor physical ailment to suffer instead of (hypothetically,
of course) an existential dread or lassitude. And actual sick days from work! I "managed to" (self tease) turn my mattress and change bed linen last night. I squeezed some oranges this morning. I ate peanut butter on toast. WoohCat1 has purred in my arms all afternoon, in bed. WoohCat2 lay on my knees. Terribly cosy .
I acknowledge how lucky I am that I can "enjoy" it. It's been months since I've had a break from work, family, my lover's insistence she buy a house yet further
away -_- , tasks, my head. Colds are a seasonal virus, yet I'm convinced the universe sometimes says, "I'm so sick of you, have a sneeze and cups of tea and come back when you're ready to discuss your behaviour."
And a Saturday off! OMG
I’m not sure if it is the same everywhere but the chemist near me has a sign in the window about alcohol reduction, so might be worth checking there?Thank you this is a really good point and a blind spot for me as I’m evangelical about the rooms. But I’ve had the privilege of being in London with lots of meetings to pick from & really strong fellowship in the ends. If I was in rural Yorkshire it wouldn’t be the same so yeah looking at alternatives is definitely a smart idea!
Personally for me I know my issue stemmed from really low self esteem/worth and baaaad anxiety. Agreed with Wooh if I’d have sought professional help for that maybe I would never have stopped drinking or dabbling, maybe it would have just gone back to okay levels. I was never physically addicted or behaved poorly (women rarely do, it’s why Jack’s stories make me cringe so much, we’ve been socialised differently it’s just not a common occurrence to publicly lash out?) it was my head that was terrible. There were and are ppl that consumed a lot more than me and acted sloppier but it’s where my head took me that resulted in seeking help. I’d always have ended up having down periods and binging/being destructive to my own personal life though which couldn’t work with the life I wanted (career, family, husband who doesn’t hate me lol).
There are many ways to skin a cat. I started to read a book that discussed this but I struggled with it as the author was peddling her own recovery program. And I won’t go into the ins and outs but I do think AA has problematic elements to it, ultimately it was made by white MC WASPs in the US nearly 100 years ago so it’s never going to be for everyone. I trust that it has and will continue to evolve with the times. I had a religious school upbringing so maybe I find the traditions and formality of it a comfort?
Also speaking to her GP could help, especially if she’s drinking half a bottle of vodka (that feels like a lot to me?? I was a wine and uppers girly so no idea on equivalent volumes?) she may need some medical advice on cutting that out gradually rather than cold Turkey. I genuinely have no idea on that, may be being OTT, but a GP will never be a bad shout??
Best of luck tho and please keep us updated!
personally I think you really should tell her partner , but if you’re worried about how she will react maybe tell him to pretend he has discovered it by himself? Like finding bottles in the bin or whatever . With all addictions what enables them to continue is the secrecy and not being accountable to anyone
Anyone need a smile? These guys are just big babies.
Just wanted to say how much I appreciate everyone's thoughts whenever subjects like addiction come up. I've mentioned before that I lost my dad to alcoholism, it was a very long and painful journey, and talking about it in real life always felt impossible. It's many years later now, but I'm so grateful to have stumbled upon so many wise, compassionate people. Big hugs to all!
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