English Channel migrant crossing crisis

[GiggleBee]

What upsets me is when my Aunt fell ill abroad in europe they charged her and made my uncle pay before theyd even see her!
Yet they all come here and get free medical care (ofcourse the ones who have just fallen in the sea need urgent care and I wouldnt deny them it) these people pay high prices to get on these dingys though so they should surely have the money to pay for any treatment.
Its no wonder our NHS is sinking when noone has to pay for anything.

 

[CheshireTea]

I also wonder when people mention work and finding jobs etc once here… Middle Eastern culture doesn’t see women (the majority at least) allowed to or even want to work, nor do they have the the skills or interest… how are they going to contribute to society when they can barely speak English? There was a report on the news the other night about a lady with 3 children who had a council house, she had to be interviewed with an interpreter…

 

[Crabbypatty00]

Over 40,000 illegal crossings this year alone and that's the ones we know about. All those people need homes, use hospitals, doctors, schools etc. It is simply not supportable. I cannot rock up anywhere else in the world and be granted medical care, education and housing and increasingly struggle to access it here. British citizens don't have the opportunity to simply go somewhere else for a better life, we must go through the proper channels and even then you are in your own once you arrive.

Other countries don't put up with this level of piss taking. Working in NZ I saw a senior manager from the UK frog marched from behind his desk by immigration and deported within twelve hours for over staying his visa. He had a very high salary, paid tax, paid for medical and his kids were in school there, but the rules are rules and they set an example and follow through. UK is a soft target for unscrupulous people and it just steals resources from those genuinely in need.

 

[GiggleBee]

Over 40,000 illegal crossings this year alone and that's the ones we know about. All those people need homes, use hospitals, doctors, schools etc. It is simply not supportable. I cannot rock up anywhere else in the world and be granted medical care, education and housing and increasingly struggle to access it here. British citizens don't have the opportunity to simply go somewhere else for a better life, we must go through the proper channels and even then you are in your own once you arrive.

Other countries don't put up with this level of piss taking. Working in NZ I saw a senior manager from the UK frog marched from behind his desk by immigration and deported within twelve hours for over staying his visa. He had a very high salary, paid tax, paid for medical and his kids were in school there, but the rules are rules and they set an example and follow through. UK is a soft target for unscrupulous people and it just steals resources from those genuinely in need.

This!! Were a weak country with free stuff and everyone knows it! Were too scared as a country to appear 'racist'. As you say rules are rules and we need some tough ones.

 

[Lazarus]

To be fair the hotel accommodation given to migrants sounds like prison. They have to sign in and out, must be in by a certain time. Rooms are cramped with families. Food is poor and new to them. Nowhere for children to play. Fights. Prostitution.
Many people feel they shouldn't complain as no-one asked them to come here and to be fair people who live here are struggling and desperate too.
Mess.

Much like homeless accommodation for those lucky enough to get it.
It is not racist to say the immigration system is broken, almost beyond repair, and with the country in the state it is in - health service, school funding, social housing, practically every single public service. I don’t think it is unreasonable to say we can’t take economic migrants.
Asylum seekers, yes - but not everyone claiming asylum is fleeing their home for genuine reasons.
The money they pay people smugglers is more than enough to submit a genuine claim.

I’d hate to live on the Kent coast; I feel for the people living there who are now being pressed even harder by the amount of pressure on their resources.
Someone said about Rwanda flights and Manston being deterrents, but they are not. Record numbers are still risking their lives to get here. Not sure what else can be done tbh.

 

[Merpedy]

Not sure what else can be done tbh.

A system where you can claim asylum without having to arrive in the country you want to claim asylum in?

 

[Lazarus]

A system where you can claim asylum without having to arrive in the country you want to claim asylum in?

I don’t think that would end this situation tbh. These people are passing through many safe countries to get here; some because they have family connections etc, but for others it just doesn’t make sense.
I personally don’t accept the argument that you should be able to claim asylum in any country you like - why pass through countless safe options to risk your life to come here if the conditions are *that bad*?
if you needed urgent medical treatment for your child, you wouldn’t run past 6 hospitals to get to a 7th. You’d go to the first one that would take you.

 

[Merpedy]

I don’t think that would end this situation tbh. These people are passing through many safe countries to get here; some because they have family connections etc, but for others it just doesn’t make sense.
I personally don’t accept the argument that you should be able to claim asylum in any country you like - why pass through countless safe options to risk your life to come here if the conditions are *that bad*?
if you needed urgent medical treatment for your child, you wouldn’t run past 6 hospitals to get to a 7th. You’d go to the first one that would take you.

So here is the thing with this reply:
A. There is an assumption that these people are aware what countries they are passing through. Many are not, majority probably because the smugglers don't tell them. Human trafficking is rampant and this whole thing about people paying to get smuggled between countries is a lot more nuanced than just having money to blow

B. The UK is unique in that it is an island and some people may feel safer than remaining in Europe where smugglers are and freedom of movement is a lot easier. Apparently this is especially common for Albanians

C. Some of the people have claimed asylum elsewhere but have been rejected so had to move on. Some of the people UK rejects do this also because being rejected in one country doesn't mean you will be rejected for asylum in another country

People are complaining about the pressure on our services and the easy way to remove a fair amount of pressure is to allow people to make asylum claims from other safe countries - it would presumably hit at the smuggling business too because they'd basically be useless. Even if you have some people making it across the channel, that's still possibly less people than it is now. All of it goes into this idea that people simply have a problem with asylum claimants existing as people

I also always find it funny how no one talks about those that make it here on planes without visas too. The talk about people being smuggled by trucks also seems to have really died down too? I doubt the problem has disappeared but I'm guessing it's harder to create outrage about it... which seems funny as that would surely be the group that is truly unaccounted for?

 

[Moth]

Over 40,000 illegal crossings this year alone and that's the ones we know about. All those people need homes, use hospitals, doctors, schools etc. It is simply not supportable. I cannot rock up anywhere else in the world and be granted medical care, education and housing and increasingly struggle to access it here. British citizens don't have the opportunity to simply go somewhere else for a better life, we must go through the proper channels and even then you are in your own once you arrive.

Other countries don't put up with this level of piss taking. Working in NZ I saw a senior manager from the UK frog marched from behind his desk by immigration and deported within twelve hours for over staying his visa. He had a very high salary, paid tax, paid for medical and his kids were in school there, but the rules are rules and they set an example and follow through. UK is a soft target for unscrupulous people and it just steals resources from those genuinely in need.

Just as a bit of proportion which sometimes appears to get conveniently lost behind the word 'Illegal", those 40,000 people represent 4% of the number granted entry visas into the UK in a year. All of those people "need homes, use hospitals, doctors, schools etc."

Are you saying that only the countries adjacent to those with refugees should bear the responsibility for accommodating them? How very convenient.

.... I also always find it funny how no one talks about those that make it here on planes without visas too. The talk about people being smuggled by trucks also seems to have really died down too? I doubt the problem has disappeared but I'm guessing it's harder to create outrage about it... which seems funny as that would surely be the group that is truly unaccounted for?

It was the UK pressuring French authorities to (successfully) tackle the smuggling in trucks that resulted in the increase in small boat crossings.

Much like homeless accommodation for those lucky enough to get it.
It is not racist to say the immigration system is broken, almost beyond repair, and with the country in the state it is in - health service, school funding, social housing, practically every single public service. I don’t think it is unreasonable to say we can’t take economic migrants.
Asylum seekers, yes - but not everyone claiming asylum is fleeing their home for genuine reasons.
The money they pay people smugglers is more than enough to submit a genuine claim.

I’d hate to live on the Kent coast; I feel for the people living there who are now being pressed even harder by the amount of pressure on their resources.
Someone said about Rwanda flights and Manston being deterrents, but they are not. Record numbers are still risking their lives to get here. Not sure what else can be done tbh.

So you're happy to take "genuine" asylum seekers. How do we decide who is "genuine" and when is the best time to do it? What has money got to do with a "genuine claim"?

 

[Wackie Jeaver]

Just watched a lot of news footage... those people doing the rescuing deserve medals, rather than the fact that my village FB page (Kent coast, right in the middle of this) has had to turn off replies due to the amount of abuse being thrown about.

 

[kev1974]

I don't understand why France isn't bringing in some controls on the import/sale/movement of the rubber dinghys that the people smugglers are using. It's not like they're small things, even when uninflated.

The people smuggling scum / human traffickers making money off these people's desperation is where the anger should be directed.

 

[MyLittlePony25]

I live in Kent and sometimes I feel like I’m in a foreign country… honestly, take a walk around Dover and you would think your are abroad. I sat at a doctors surgery and there were people obviously wanting an appointment but were unable to speak English to even get their details. A Deliveroo driver couldn’t read the note on delivery instructions because he didn’t know English and he didn’t understand what I was saying over the telecom, so decided to say I wasn’t in and go to his next delivery…by the time I had gotten down the stairs to get the delivery from him, he had gone.

It’s bonkers. I’m not the slightest bit racist and understand people genuinely fleeing for their lives but they pass through many safe countries. They just come here because they think they will get money and a house and our criminal justice system is tit so they can get away with committing crime.

 

[JoeBloggs]

I don’t think that would end this situation tbh. These people are passing through many safe countries to get here; some because they have family connections etc, but for others it just doesn’t make sense.
I personally don’t accept the argument that you should be able to claim asylum in any country you like - why pass through countless safe options to risk your life to come here if the conditions are *that bad*?
if you needed urgent medical treatment for your child, you wouldn’t run past 6 hospitals to get to a 7th. You’d go to the first one that would take you.

That’s not the rules, you are meant to claim asylum in the first safe country you arrive in, so for many it would have been Germany, France, Poland, Spain etc but no they keep travelling for days/weeks to get to the UK. We have to ask why, what’s wrong with the other European countries?

 

[Lazarus]

Just as a bit of proportion which sometimes appears to get conveniently lost behind the word 'Illegal", those 40,000 people represent 4% of the number granted entry visas into the UK in a year. All of those people "need homes, use hospitals, doctors, schools etc."

Are you saying that only the countries adjacent to those with refugees should bear the responsibility for accommodating them? How very convenient.



It was the UK pressuring French authorities to (successfully) tackle the smuggling in trucks that resulted in the increase in small boat crossings.



So you're happy to take "genuine" asylum seekers. How do we decide who is "genuine" and when is the best time to do it? What has money got to do with a "genuine claim"?

People trafficking costs upwards of £15k per person. A ten year visitor visa costs £837.

there is no war in Albania at the moment, therefore the most appropriate route for an Albanian to enter the UK would be to apply lawfully.

we won’t agree on this subject tbh.

That’s not the rules, you are meant to claim asylum in the first safe country you arrive in, so for many it would have been Germany, France, Poland, Spain etc but no they keep travelling for days/weeks to get to the UK. We have to ask why, what’s wrong with the other European countries?

Asylum seekers are not required to claim asylum in the first safe country they arrive at.

 

[JoeBloggs]

People trafficking costs upwards of £15k per person. A ten year visitor visa costs £837.

there is no war in Albania at the moment, therefore the most appropriate route for an Albanian to enter the UK would be to apply lawfully.

we won’t agree on this subject tbh.


Asylum seekers are not required to claim asylum in the first safe country they arrive at.

This is what I do not understand, if you have such funds why are you not getting on a plane and arriving legally… oh wait you cant as you don’t need the asylum. I know some have to pay it back but surely they pay something in advance and it cannot be as much as a ticket and a visa.

The Albanian PM/ president doesn’t care. Would you not question why so many of your people want to leave.

 

[Merpedy]

there is no war in Albania at the moment, therefore the most appropriate route for an Albanian to enter the UK would be to apply lawfully.

I used Albania as a throw in example. Personally I'm not that aware of their individual circumstances

Though it is probably worth mentioning that your country doesn't necessarily have to be at war for you to claim asylum, though I would be interested to hear whether that makes success less likely

What is Asylum?

pdf/print page Last updated: 13 February 2023 Asylum is an application you make to get a type of international protection called refugee status. Refugee status can be given to you by another country if you fear being returned to your country of origin or residence. You need to fulfil sp

righttoremain.org.uk

 

[Crabbypatty00]

The problem with claiming asylum is two fold. A) you probably won't qualify because most countries of origin the people landing here from are safe B) if you go down the official route you are in the system - for good or bad. The grey economy deals in cash wages, no tax but no working rights. Lots of migrants will work in this shadow economy, because they don't have the right paper work. So the UK loses twice. Once for paying for accomodation etc and then again through loss of taxation. Meanwhile the are still entitled to education, medical and all other services. It is not how a country with socialist values can operate, everyone must put into the pot for it to work, otherwise people get rightfully pissed off and resentment sets in. Look at Norway and Germany recently for a preview of this. Abuse of the system hardens people's hearts and it's a crying shame.

 

[Wackie Jeaver]

It's Catch 22 really isnt it. Bad situation all ways round, however you look at it. But this govt - and possibly the next one - won't deal with it properly because it involves money up front which looks bad to those who say 'but what about us'. I can appreciate 'what about us', god knows the situation is pretty dire, but that doesnt excuse from our international obligations, IMO.

 

[Blueblue123]

Lest we forget Suella Braverman admitted not too long ago that there were no safe or legal routes for asylum seekers coming to the UK

Braverman fails to answer on 'safe and legal routes' in car-crash grilling

SUELLA Braverman admitted there were no safe and legal routes for many people to apply for asylum in the UK during a car-crash grilling for the…

www.thenational.scot

All this talk of separating the legal from the illegal becomes futile when you remember the legal option doesn't exist and the government is dragging it's heels on distinguishing the two once they get here.

As long as no legal routes are available then the UK will ALWAYS have arrivals coming unsafely led by people who probably shouldn't be here.

People who have nothing left to lose are the ones who tend to act dangerously and that'll either be because their life is under threat or they're so criminally inclined that they'll do whatever to reach their goals.

It's unfortunate that, generally, such two different mindsets and circumstances can result in similar behaviours because it makes people tar the needy with the same brush as the immoral.

 

[Crabbypatty00]

Correction blueblue you are cherry picking that article....

"I think the point is that we're short of legal routes other than for specific groups of people that we've generously offered safe havens to."

So yes there are infact routes and resettlement plans for citizens whose countries are in crisis. Just not many routes for someone who fancies a change of scenery.

Suella tripped up when questioned how an African orphan could get to live with a sibling in the UK. I would say there is no automatic right to that actually, just as there isn't anywhere else in the world.