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IngressUK

VIP Member
Even if they are economic migrants, that's not necessarily bad. What would work better is if they were housed - maybe in some form of camp - and then the resources provided so that they can make their submission to the UK while they are relatively safe, and then there would be no benefit to the people smugglers. But that's never going to happen is it...
Disagree.

Why should an illegal economic migrant be allowed to freely walk into the UK, whilst many other legal migrants have to jump through hoops to come here. Many of whom are refused.

Why was it right that during the pandemic anyone legally traveling into the country had to quarantine. Yet many who rocked up on our shores and weren't detected by the authorities, were free to walk around without such measures. It made a bloody mockery of the whole quarantine process.

I'll never be sold on illegal migration. Either apply to live here via the official channels, or not at all.
 
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IngressUK

VIP Member
I feel like you can't be against migrants crossing the border without being called a racist.
Why is it racist?

Because of a small minority who don't like others having a view that differs to theirs, seems to think it is?

The last time I checked, you are allowed you own opinon, even if others don't like it.

I also don't think this can carry on. There are already over an estimated one million illegal migrants in the UK. At the current rate, this figure will double by the next election. Just how many more do some expect us to take before a serious knock on effect is felt?

I also think that if you have the money to pay a people smuggler the money to get you into a specific country, that you are a not genuine refugee or asylum seeker.

If people don't like my opinions then tough. I'm legally entitled to hold them, no laws have been broken for holding the above opinions.
 
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kev1974

VIP Member
I can't understand why nobody seems to be going after the actual people smuggling gangs that are making a ton of money for providing ropey overloaded dinghies. What happened the other day with the drownings wasn't really that different from the folks that died in the back of the truck on the ferry? Seems to me the easiest way to shut things down and protect the migrants' lives would simply be to disrupt the dinghy supplies?
 
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ara95_

Member
I have no issue with people who want to migrate here the right and legal way but we have taken in thousands and thousands of migrants for years and it's beginning to affect our country. We can't keep helping other countries every time they're in need and offering to help their citizens and move them over here, we are full up as it is and our own people are now struggling. The problem is, for saying that you get called heartless and racist. These people who are crossing the channel are usually young men and are almost always economic migrants. They know they'll get a package when they arrive and Domino's pizzas and god knows what else, a cheap phone with credit on it (read the news articles on it) and a small amount of money and they'll get free NHS, somewhere decent to stay because of their human rights and some sort of benefits or financial pocket money (even if it's a small amount). Paid for by the taxpayer. It makes me really angry. The NHS is now struggling, we are building more and more housing and, yes I'll be pathetic and say that our lovely British countryside is being used to build more and more houses with the growing population. Many of these men who come over are not being checked for any criminal records and could be absolutely anybody. I've read stories where there were some quite violent criminals attempted to be deported and human refugee rights protesters stopped the plane from leaving so they didn't end up being deported. Also, a lot of their cultures don't align with ours, like their religion and their views isn't the same as western views and there has been a lot of clashing over the years because of this. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy seeing a multi-cultural country but I feel people should migrate here the right way and we should be stricter like the likes of the US and Australia.

I have respect for people who work hard to migrate the right ways and pay in this country. In my eyes those types of migrants are more than welcome here. It's also strange how they always cross multiple countries to get to our land of milk and honey. Anyone who wants on about poor them and attempts to stop immigration doing their job should be forced to take some migrants in and pay for them theirselves - via their own money - not any government earned money like benefits.

 
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Crabbypatty00

Well-known member
Over 40,000 illegal crossings this year alone and that's the ones we know about. All those people need homes, use hospitals, doctors, schools etc. It is simply not supportable. I cannot rock up anywhere else in the world and be granted medical care, education and housing and increasingly struggle to access it here. British citizens don't have the opportunity to simply go somewhere else for a better life, we must go through the proper channels and even then you are in your own once you arrive.

Other countries don't put up with this level of piss taking. Working in NZ I saw a senior manager from the UK frog marched from behind his desk by immigration and deported within twelve hours for over staying his visa. He had a very high salary, paid tax, paid for medical and his kids were in school there, but the rules are rules and they set an example and follow through. UK is a soft target for unscrupulous people and it just steals resources from those genuinely in need.
 
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Wackie Jeaver

VIP Member
This is so awful, around 30 people have drowned trying to get from France to the UK today - all over all the news stations so I wont put any links.

So sad, how desperate must you be to get into an overcrowded dinghy in November and try to cross one of the world's busiest shipping lanes?

I live literally next to the sea, not far from Dover. Walking up there this afternoon the sea was like a millpond, and I wondered how many more would be trying to get across today.

Not sure where I'm going with this, I guess I just wanted to mark their loss somehow.
 
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Lazarus

VIP Member
People bang on about the UK being a multicultural society but you can’t have a multicultural society if certain sections don’t bother to integrate, learn the language, etc.
And regardless of what people say that is a massive issue.
I find a lot of people who are for people claiming asylum here without checks, coming across on dinghies etc are people who will never have to deal with the issues that these people bring. Where I used to live there was a massive issue with people who didn’t integrate and it caused so many problems. Walking down the street I was followed by men, I was told by them I should cover up, I was told I didn’t belong here etc.Then you’d get to the drs surgery and it was so overcrowded, lots of people couldn’t speak English and it would take ages to get checked in. I once had to queue for nearly 2 hours just to speak to a receptionist to check in! It’s madness.
The system doesn’t work, more people are going to get hurt, tensions are going to rise. That isn’t racism, that’s just looking at what’s happening.


I found that comment a bit disingenuous and attempting to pray on the peoples sympathies - there are fewer orphan children claiming asylum or crossing illegally than there are able bodied men.
Agree with the bit in bold (and all of it). Your eyes don’t lie; people can see what’s going on. Multi-culturalism is practically non-existent. There are multiple cultures but that doesn’t mean they mix. Most stay segregated.
Many choose not to learn the language. A colleague of mine is Bengali by birth; her family then claimed asylum in Italy. As soon as they were able to, they naturalised as Italian citizens and one of the first things they done after that was move to the UK.
Her nationality is Italian, her parents don’t speak Italian despite being Italian citizens. Her mum doesn’t speak English, she requires an interpreter every time she attends a hospital appointment and healthcare was the main reason behind their move to the UK.
This is my colleagues own words not my spin on it. My colleague says she is having an identity crisis; she doesn’t fit in with the Bengali community because she is, in their view too westernised, she doesn’t feel Italian because the whole time they lived in Italy, they didn’t absorb into that culture, and she doesn’t feel she fits in here in the UK either.
She has a good job, in the civil service, with an above UK average salary, and has never left London as she has no desire or interest to see any other part of the UK.

I’m sure this isn’t an isolated case. I feel sorry for her, but she clearly has no intention of integrating and her family’s only real reason for coming here was healthcare.
She said as soon as they became naturalised Italians, they began to go back to Bangladesh to visit family.
Is that the actions of people who were fleeing for their own safety?
 
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Briar Rose

Active member
I feel like you can't be against migrants crossing the border without being called a racist.
Right?

I live in one of the areas where local authorties have been struggling to cope for years but nothing is ever done. The local authority have publicly pleaded for help more than once over recent years, especially when it comes to the children, and Home Office just puts their fingers in their ears and goes la la la. It's infuriating.

People don't seem to get that you can care very much about people being safe and not wishing them harm while still having worries about what so many migrants coming to one area can do for the worst.

I never get involved in the conversation because you just can't with the way everyone screams at each other but I feel utterly heartbroken for those who died in the crossing and yet I'm not sure how many more new arrivals my town can handle.

It's the repeated failings of the government to do anything whatsoever that is causing any anger I have, not those who are just trying to get a better life.
 
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IngressUK

VIP Member
Rishi's speech yesterday was the last throw of the dice in dealing with this ongoing issue. His Government faces unprecedented defeat at the next election, unless he does start to take constructive action on this long running problem.

For far too long all we have been fed is endless waffle about what they are going to do, with no action being taken.

What did Priti Patel do in the period she was Home Secretary? Absolutely nothing.

The majority in this country are sick to the back teeth of this issue not being addressed.

Whilst many British people (of all ethnic backgrounds) struggle to make ends meet, it isn't right, nor fair that arriving in the UK illegally grants you better perks and privileges than those just managing to survive.

The whole system is rotten to the core and the balance needs urgent redressing.
 
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NeverEnough

VIP Member
We don't. Asylum seekers are given access to healthcare as they are in the vast majority of European countries. Most people entering the UK on immigration visas are required to pay the NHS surcharge.

As for the nonsense about "real men" stay and fight .... I spoke to a refugee (a successful asylum seeker) from Syria. He was working as a taxi driver in Raqaa when ISIS arrived. One of his jobs was to deliver medicines to the local hospital. ISIS decided he was working for the al-Assad government so picked him up and tortured him. He managed to escape and made his way to the safety of Damascus. There he was picked up by government agents who suspected he was an ISIS spy and tortured again. Eventually he was released but decided he had to get out of Syria. He crossed the border to the safety of Lebanon where he was picked up by the authorities and returned to Syria. The Syrian police detained and tortured him again. This time when he was released he managed to travel to the UK where he claimed asylum. Who was he supposed to "stay and fight".
Tortured three times yet survived in a fit state to cross multiple European countries? Tortured by both ISIS and Assad, neither of whom leave witnesses, yet managed to escape both?

OK.
 
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bunnyboo

VIP Member
Is the English language the main driver for people wanting to leave France?

If the UK really was that more generous than France wouldn't the government end the policies just like that to stop the crossings (as it would be a real vote winner)? I thought that people waiting for their application to be processed lived in terrible places with a tiny allowance for years?
The English language has a big part of it, no doubt.

But I'd argue that Britain's past history of colonisation is also at play. Britain colonised countless countries, forcing British cultural norms and practices on native people whilst creating a shared narrative that the UK is a perfect example of a civilised and optimised country. Although colonisation has faded away to some extent, the legacy it left is that people of many deprived countries saw the UK as a place where jobs are plentiful and opportunity is rife. Even people from countries that weren't colonised by the British believe this narrative to some degree. This idealistic, romanticised of Britain being the land of opportunity view continues to this day. In the home countries of migrants who are desperate to flee their conditions, they aren't being blasted with the news that we see of Brexit issues, the failure of universal credit, British government scandals and lack of jobs/social housing... all they hear is good stories of migrants who got out and are thriving* in the UK or the same lies about Britain that the colonists told (of streets paved with gold), only now these lies are coming out of the mouths of immoral, greedy human traffickers.

* I use the term thriving as people living in war-torn or deprived nations hearing about their neighbour, cousin.. whoever.. who is illegally living and working in the UK making £80 a week sounds hugely preferable to living in desperate poverty where there seems to be no way out or no hope left

I am not defending people illegally entering the UK. I just think this is a wider problem that isn't as simple as either side make it out to be.

@Yel
The English language, plus a long history of being relatively hospitable to immigrants, must be part of their desire to reach the UK rather than stay in a 'safe' European place. Plus many have relatives already here, so there's a way to see community, assistance etc.

The French are not very hospitable, it has to be said, hence the presence of the 'jungle camps'.

But the processing seems to take forever, and we dont seem able to keep track of people either - thus potentially letting in undesirables, and people are quite rightly concerned about this. They are also concerned about the large numbers of young single men (probably the only ones capable of making the journey in relative safety compared to girls and young women) and potential culture clash.
I'd argue the Britain isn't very hospitable either, particularly when the UK had a literal 'Hostile Environment Policy' in place from 2012. Britain has a long history of poor treatment of migrant workers, from Churchill's proposed "Keep England White" slogan in 1955, all the way up to the Windrush scandal. Sure even post-WW2, the British government made more of an effort to draft in 'European Voluntary Workers' (read: white people) to curb the amount of Afro-Carribean commonwealth citizens who were coming over (some of whom fought under the crown!). Yep, the British government would rather draft in former German prisoners of war who fought for the Nazis, then let the Afro-Carribean people in. History doesn't paint a pretty picture.

The processing takes forever due to failures on the part of the British government and the public sector. Privatisation, outsourcing and a lack of funding to public sector.The agencies are understaffed, overworked and drowning in paperwork due to bureaucratic failures. Due to scandals being leaked such as very young migrant children being kept in detention centres or situations like Windrush, they are also under so much pressure to not fuck up (cross every t, dot every i) that it inevitably results in a longer process which no-one wants.
 
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Wackie Jeaver

VIP Member
@Yel, it's all so complicated.

The English language, plus a long history of being relatively hospitable to immigrants, must be part of their desire to reach the UK rather than stay in a 'safe' European place. Plus many have relatives already here, so there's a way to see community, assistance etc.

The French are not very hospitable, it has to be said, hence the presence of the 'jungle camps'.

Once people get here, it is certainly not a life of wine and roses, the holding conditions for many are pretty awful, and until their status is settled they cant work - despite the fact that UK needs workers, and some, not necessarily all, of these people are actually well qualified in their particular areas.

But the processing seems to take forever, and we dont seem able to keep track of people either - thus potentially letting in undesirables, and people are quite rightly concerned about this. They are also concerned about the large numbers of young single men (probably the only ones capable of making the journey in relative safety compared to girls and young women) and potential culture clash.

So I dont have any answers, but I do know that if people are so desperate they're prepared to get into something resembling an inflatable garden paddling pool (as some of these boats were described by a French minister today) then there's something very wrong.
 
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thegirlscout

VIP Member
I live in Kent and sometimes I feel like I’m in a foreign country… honestly, take a walk around Dover and you would think your are abroad. I sat at a doctors surgery and there were people obviously wanting an appointment but were unable to speak English to even get their details. A Deliveroo driver couldn’t read the note on delivery instructions because he didn’t know English and he didn’t understand what I was saying over the telecom, so decided to say I wasn’t in and go to his next delivery…by the time I had gotten down the stairs to get the delivery from him, he had gone.

It’s bonkers. I’m not the slightest bit racist and understand people genuinely fleeing for their lives but they pass through many safe countries. They just come here because they think they will get money and a house and our criminal justice system is shit so they can get away with committing crime.
People bang on about the UK being a multicultural society but you can’t have a multicultural society if certain sections don’t bother to integrate, learn the language, etc.
And regardless of what people say that is a massive issue.
I find a lot of people who are for people claiming asylum here without checks, coming across on dinghies etc are people who will never have to deal with the issues that these people bring. Where I used to live there was a massive issue with people who didn’t integrate and it caused so many problems. Walking down the street I was followed by men, I was told by them I should cover up, I was told I didn’t belong here etc.Then you’d get to the drs surgery and it was so overcrowded, lots of people couldn’t speak English and it would take ages to get checked in. I once had to queue for nearly 2 hours just to speak to a receptionist to check in! It’s madness.
The system doesn’t work, more people are going to get hurt, tensions are going to rise. That isn’t racism, that’s just looking at what’s happening.

Suella tripped up when questioned how an African orphan could get to live with a sibling in the UK.
I found that comment a bit disingenuous and attempting to pray on the peoples sympathies - there are fewer orphan children claiming asylum or crossing illegally than there are able bodied men.
 
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TheScarletgirl

VIP Member
Why is it racist?

Because of a small minority who don't like others having a view that differs to theirs, seems to think it is?

The last time I checked, you are allowed you own opinon, even if others don't like it.

I also don't think this can carry on. There are already over an estimated one million illegal migrants in the UK. At the current rate, this figure will double by the next election. Just how many more do some expect us to take before a serious knock on effect is felt?

I also think that if you have the money to pay a people smuggler the money to get you into a specific country, that you are a not genuine refugee or asylum seeker.

If people don't like my opinions then tough. I'm legally entitled to hold them, no laws have been broken for holding the above opinions.
I agree with everything you said. I have seen on other sections on tattle members have been ganged up upon if some users don't like their views. I would say most people agree that many who cross the channel by dingy are economic migrants.
 
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thegirlscout

VIP Member
It’s very hard to prove, and I’m not sure if stats are available. I’ve seen countless cases of disputed age assessments from my previous job.
all were men, all then got a lawyer and legal aid funding to judicially review the assessment. In the meantime these men were in foster placements, and in classrooms. They were regularly described to have grey hairs, calloused hands, tattooed, sometimes with receding hairlines and generally looked late 20 to mid 30s.
In some cases I seen, the men were removed from the foster homes they were placed in because the family felt uncomfortable by their presence and their friends who were older men. They felt concerned to have these men near their children and felt they were taking a space from a child in genuine need.

awful situation for anyone to be in.
I’m sorry, yes these men are coming from hardship be that war or economic but willingly being placed with children, taking spaces from actual children, going to school and clubs with children….it’s all really creepy. The safeguarding is ridiculous.
 
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IngressUK

VIP Member
I agree with everything you said. I have seen on other sections on tattle members have been ganged up upon if some users don't like their views. I would say most people agree that many who cross the channel by dingy are economic migrants.
Then those people doing the ganging up on should be reported - as what they are doing is nothing more than bullying others.

The likes of Yel and other moderators are fair, they allow a range of opinions on Tattle. Not just solely left wing views, unlike other sites I could mention...
 
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struggs123

Chatty Member
I suspect many would be more supportive if the government were also doing things to address the crippling inequality and issues such as homelessness in this country first. If they invested in the infrastructure then i doubt people would be as critical (these are mainly economic migrants in the dinghies afte rall- healthy, young men who work and send money home to their families). Large swathes of the public sector are collapsing- the NHS, social housing, schools...I'm not surprised people are worried about how these systems that are already fucked are going to cope; I also hate how anyone who has reservations is racist.

Basically the government is screwing us all over.

My other issue with these people coming across is that it’s mainly men and men who have said they are under 18 so they get taken in by the social care system and placed in foster homes and schools. A huge safeguarding risk to children.
I used to volunteer to teach English to asylum seekers, it was for under 18s but I can say with certainty they were not children. I have a medical background and it's not grounded in ignorance or racism or whatever else, they were absolutely definitely not 18 or even overly close to 18. Of course I can only speak on my experience can't speak for elsewhere. There's also the conflicting views on women many bring with them which is scary. I am not saying all are whatever towards women but I'm sceptical about how people can grow up with these entrenched views (also towards western women and what they're like) and then just shake them off.
 
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GiggleBee

VIP Member
What upsets me is when my Aunt fell ill abroad in europe they charged her and made my uncle pay before theyd even see her!
Yet they all come here and get free medical care (ofcourse the ones who have just fallen in the sea need urgent care and I wouldnt deny them it) these people pay high prices to get on these dingys though so they should surely have the money to pay for any treatment.
Its no wonder our NHS is sinking when noone has to pay for anything.
 
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emmer_moans

VIP Member
Where are the women and children? 🤔 I know I have asked it before but where are they? Why should we support lots of fit/able young economic migrant men over women and children. I am all for supporting the asylum of families is actual distress, and I am all for legal economic migration where families secure a job, a visa, right to work etc through the proper channels.

As a Brit, Australia won't let me in and house me and feed me as an illegal. I doubt France would, nor America, etc. So why are we a doormat letting in illegal economic migrants? Yes we have problems with economy and housing of our own doing, but it's naive to say the huge amounts of illegal migrant people won't make it worse.

Women's safety in the streets is at risk (it always is I suppose); my town centre now is a no-go zone after dark because there are groups of men smoking, loitering in the streets. Why, because they are just here, waiting, and lots of people feel the same way about public places now. It feels unsafe.

I have no problem with asylum seekers who follow the rules. Economic migrants are a different circumstance and they don't need to be here.

There's of course some nuance between "we must bend over and help everyone, regardless, to the detriment of our capacity" and "we help no one".

Not one of us has a full overview of the reality of the whole picture, but, I know what I have seen first hand, and heard second hand is we are seeing a lot of young men, men, men.

Genuine asylum seekers don't kick each other in the street or smash up hotel rooms.

I don't think it is unreasonable to acknowledge that the system is broken and that genuine concerns of taxpayers have merit.

Just my opinion, others may vary. 🤷‍♀️
 
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