English Channel migrant crossing crisis

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This is so awful, around 30 people have drowned trying to get from France to the UK today - all over all the news stations so I wont put any links.

So sad, how desperate must you be to get into an overcrowded dinghy in November and try to cross one of the world's busiest shipping lanes?

I live literally next to the sea, not far from Dover. Walking up there this afternoon the sea was like a millpond, and I wondered how many more would be trying to get across today.

Not sure where I'm going with this, I guess I just wanted to mark their loss somehow.
 
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Starting a thread on this to discuss as I'm probably quite naive about it all (speaking as someone that migrated to the UK but from a "good" aka wealthy country).

At least 30 dead today, some reports say it could go as high as 50, after a boat capsizes.

UK authorities passing blame to the french and french blaming the UK. So they're probably both at fault, of varying levels and I doubt either care about the dead people.

Is the English language the main driver for people wanting to leave France?

If the UK really was that more generous than France wouldn't the government end the policies just like that to stop the crossings (as it would be a real vote winner)? I thought that people waiting for their application to be processed lived in terrible places with a tiny allowance for years?
 
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@Yel, it's all so complicated.

The English language, plus a long history of being relatively hospitable to immigrants, must be part of their desire to reach the UK rather than stay in a 'safe' European place. Plus many have relatives already here, so there's a way to see community, assistance etc.

The French are not very hospitable, it has to be said, hence the presence of the 'jungle camps'.

Once people get here, it is certainly not a life of wine and roses, the holding conditions for many are pretty awful, and until their status is settled they cant work - despite the fact that UK needs workers, and some, not necessarily all, of these people are actually well qualified in their particular areas.

But the processing seems to take forever, and we dont seem able to keep track of people either - thus potentially letting in undesirables, and people are quite rightly concerned about this. They are also concerned about the large numbers of young single men (probably the only ones capable of making the journey in relative safety compared to girls and young women) and potential culture clash.

So I dont have any answers, but I do know that if people are so desperate they're prepared to get into something resembling an inflatable garden paddling pool (as some of these boats were described by a French minister today) then there's something very wrong.
 
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The English language, plus a long history of being relatively hospitable to immigrants, must be part of their desire to reach the UK rather than stay in a 'safe' European place. Plus many have relatives already here, so there's a way to see community, assistance etc.

The French are not very hospitable, it has to be said, hence the presence of the 'jungle camps'.
Thanks for that. One thing I don't get, and I'm generalising a whole generation but it's true for the white collar workers I'm surrounded with.

The average gen z'er will go on about how the Tories are scum that are starving people to death, the UK is the least welcoming country and our European neighbors behave so much better. But the crossings may suggest France and other European countries aren't that great or that people have unrealistic expectations of the UK?
 
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I can't understand why nobody seems to be going after the actual people smuggling gangs that are making a ton of money for providing ropey overloaded dinghies. What happened the other day with the drownings wasn't really that different from the folks that died in the back of the truck on the ferry? Seems to me the easiest way to shut things down and protect the migrants' lives would simply be to disrupt the dinghy supplies?
 
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Is the English language the main driver for people wanting to leave France?

If the UK really was that more generous than France wouldn't the government end the policies just like that to stop the crossings (as it would be a real vote winner)? I thought that people waiting for their application to be processed lived in terrible places with a tiny allowance for years?
The English language has a big part of it, no doubt.

But I'd argue that Britain's past history of colonisation is also at play. Britain colonised countless countries, forcing British cultural norms and practices on native people whilst creating a shared narrative that the UK is a perfect example of a civilised and optimised country. Although colonisation has faded away to some extent, the legacy it left is that people of many deprived countries saw the UK as a place where jobs are plentiful and opportunity is rife. Even people from countries that weren't colonised by the British believe this narrative to some degree. This idealistic, romanticised of Britain being the land of opportunity view continues to this day. In the home countries of migrants who are desperate to flee their conditions, they aren't being blasted with the news that we see of Brexit issues, the failure of universal credit, British government scandals and lack of jobs/social housing... all they hear is good stories of migrants who got out and are thriving* in the UK or the same lies about Britain that the colonists told (of streets paved with gold), only now these lies are coming out of the mouths of immoral, greedy human traffickers.

* I use the term thriving as people living in war-torn or deprived nations hearing about their neighbour, cousin.. whoever.. who is illegally living and working in the UK making £80 a week sounds hugely preferable to living in desperate poverty where there seems to be no way out or no hope left

I am not defending people illegally entering the UK. I just think this is a wider problem that isn't as simple as either side make it out to be.

@Yel
The English language, plus a long history of being relatively hospitable to immigrants, must be part of their desire to reach the UK rather than stay in a 'safe' European place. Plus many have relatives already here, so there's a way to see community, assistance etc.

The French are not very hospitable, it has to be said, hence the presence of the 'jungle camps'.

But the processing seems to take forever, and we dont seem able to keep track of people either - thus potentially letting in undesirables, and people are quite rightly concerned about this. They are also concerned about the large numbers of young single men (probably the only ones capable of making the journey in relative safety compared to girls and young women) and potential culture clash.
I'd argue the Britain isn't very hospitable either, particularly when the UK had a literal 'Hostile Environment Policy' in place from 2012. Britain has a long history of poor treatment of migrant workers, from Churchill's proposed "Keep England White" slogan in 1955, all the way up to the Windrush scandal. Sure even post-WW2, the British government made more of an effort to draft in 'European Voluntary Workers' (read: white people) to curb the amount of Afro-Carribean commonwealth citizens who were coming over (some of whom fought under the crown!). Yep, the British government would rather draft in former German prisoners of war who fought for the Nazis, then let the Afro-Carribean people in. History doesn't paint a pretty picture.

The processing takes forever due to failures on the part of the British government and the public sector. Privatisation, outsourcing and a lack of funding to public sector.The agencies are understaffed, overworked and drowning in paperwork due to bureaucratic failures. Due to scandals being leaked such as very young migrant children being kept in detention centres or situations like Windrush, they are also under so much pressure to not fuck up (cross every t, dot every i) that it inevitably results in a longer process which no-one wants.
 
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I feel like you can't be against migrants crossing the border without being called a racist.
I’m against migrants crossing the borders for many reasons but a big one is that it’s so dangerous. They have so many people on tiny dinghies that it’s no wonder one sank.
 
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This sinking was inevitable, and I'm surprised it didnt happen long before.

I read today that the smugglers threaten to shoot people if they don't get in the boat. So there's not much choice really - get shot and die or take your chances in the Channel.
 
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I feel like you can't be against migrants crossing the border without being called a racist.
Right?

I live in one of the areas where local authorties have been struggling to cope for years but nothing is ever done. The local authority have publicly pleaded for help more than once over recent years, especially when it comes to the children, and Home Office just puts their fingers in their ears and goes la la la. It's infuriating.

People don't seem to get that you can care very much about people being safe and not wishing them harm while still having worries about what so many migrants coming to one area can do for the worst.

I never get involved in the conversation because you just can't with the way everyone screams at each other but I feel utterly heartbroken for those who died in the crossing and yet I'm not sure how many more new arrivals my town can handle.

It's the repeated failings of the government to do anything whatsoever that is causing any anger I have, not those who are just trying to get a better life.
 
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I feel like you can't be against migrants crossing the border without being called a racist.
Why is it racist?

Because of a small minority who don't like others having a view that differs to theirs, seems to think it is?

The last time I checked, you are allowed you own opinon, even if others don't like it.

I also don't think this can carry on. There are already over an estimated one million illegal migrants in the UK. At the current rate, this figure will double by the next election. Just how many more do some expect us to take before a serious knock on effect is felt?

I also think that if you have the money to pay a people smuggler the money to get you into a specific country, that you are a not genuine refugee or asylum seeker.

If people don't like my opinions then tough. I'm legally entitled to hold them, no laws have been broken for holding the above opinions.
 
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Anyone else think the UK side is looking better than the French? Now they're refusing to meet with Priti after publishing Boris's letter.

The French elections probably are having a lot to do with their actions, all while people are risking their lives. But to not even turn up at the negotiating table doesn't sound good enough to me.
 
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Anyone else think the UK side is looking better than the French? Now they're refusing to meet with Priti after publishing Boris's letter.

The French elections probably are having a lot to do with their actions, all while people are risking their lives. But to not even turn up at the negotiating table doesn't sound good enough to me.
Macron is on his way out. Many of the French (and even many within the EU) have had enough of him.

I personally would love to see Barnier, or even Le Pen in power, over the idiot known as Macron.

The French have a massive hand in this crisis. If their southern border was not so pathetically weak, then there would not be so many migrants freely making their way through France to the northern shores. They are also making zero efforts to patrol their beaches for groups congregating and arresting suspected people smugglers.

We are pathetic by not being tougher on the issue. If other EU countries such as Poland can return illegal migrants within days, then why can't we?

Most people in the UK (including myself) are not anti immigration. What many are opposed to is uncontrolled mass illegal migration, whereby people can freely walk into the UK without going through all the hoops normal migrants have to follow. Plus we do not know the backgrounds of many of these people. How do we know we are not importing a fair number of people who wish to cause harm, or intend causing crime once here?
 
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Why is it racist?

Because of a small minority who don't like others having a view that differs to theirs, seems to think it is?

The last time I checked, you are allowed you own opinon, even if others don't like it.

I also don't think this can carry on. There are already over an estimated one million illegal migrants in the UK. At the current rate, this figure will double by the next election. Just how many more do some expect us to take before a serious knock on effect is felt?

I also think that if you have the money to pay a people smuggler the money to get you into a specific country, that you are a not genuine refugee or asylum seeker.

If people don't like my opinions then tough. I'm legally entitled to hold them, no laws have been broken for holding the above opinions.
I agree with everything you said. I have seen on other sections on tattle members have been ganged up upon if some users don't like their views. I would say most people agree that many who cross the channel by dingy are economic migrants.
 
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I agree with everything you said. I have seen on other sections on tattle members have been ganged up upon if some users don't like their views. I would say most people agree that many who cross the channel by dingy are economic migrants.
Then those people doing the ganging up on should be reported - as what they are doing is nothing more than bullying others.

The likes of Yel and other moderators are fair, they allow a range of opinions on Tattle. Not just solely left wing views, unlike other sites I could mention...
 
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I heard a little of LBC this morning with nick Ferrari and and they spoke to a migrant who had arrived, I think, in England. He was speaking to the reporter and said he had friends who lost their lives the other day. He also said there are more people willing to make the journey, even after knowing what happened to those who died. That is how desperate these people are. It's mad.
 
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Even if they are economic migrants, that's not necessarily bad. What would work better is if they were housed - maybe in some form of camp - and then the resources provided so that they can make their submission to the UK while they are relatively safe, and then there would be no benefit to the people smugglers. But that's never going to happen is it...
 
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But the crossings may suggest France and other European countries aren't that great or that people have unrealistic expectations of the UK?
Gaining employment is definitely harder in France than in the UK.
 
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Yep French employment laws are very stringent - on the side of the employee.

The sea is as calm as anything again this afternoon, will be high tide shortly.
 
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