English channel migrant crossing crisis #6

[monga]

Looking to change the outdated refugee convention.

Rishi Sunak says migration threatens to 'overwhelm' Europe

The prime minister has been battling to pass his Rwanda bill, which has split Conservatives as it does not allow the UK to override the European Convention on Human Rights.

news.sky.com

 

[Merpedy]

Narrative use is interesting there:

"Criminal gangs will find ever cheaper ways to ply their evil trade," he added. "They will exploit our humanity.

"They think nothing of putting people's lives at risk when they put them in these boats at sea."

Mr Sunak then hinted at the need to change international law on immigration, telling the crowd at Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni's Atreju political festival: "If we do not tackle this problem, the numbers will only grow.

"It will overwhelm our countries and our capacity to help those who actually need our help the most.

A lot nicer than whatever the hell the likes of Suella have been saying very recently. It's also a lot nicer than what they have been trying to achieve with Rwanda - including stopping people claiming asylum at all. Who is he trying to appeal to here? Is it being overly "nice" because of the recent deaths? (doubt it)

 

[monga]

 

[Piff paff puff]

Another reason Rwanda will not go ahead, well reason number 88
No airline will fly those deportees and the airfield for a private flight isn't ready.

 

[Onetwofour]

View attachment 2634829

Rwanda as a tourist destination is fine - and from what I heard quite nice. Same for Morocco for instance - as long as you are not criticizing openly the king and his policies. It's another story if you are living long term in those countries - as citizens, political opponents or asylum seekers. It can be a complete different reality.

 

[Piff paff puff]

The migrants will never be stopped as the state doesn't want to stop them. The only way they will leave is when every city council in the country is bankrupt and the wait for public services are years long and they will start to leave and drain another country.

 

[Blueblue123]

Rwanda as a tourist destination is fine - and from what I heard quite nice. Same for Morocco for instance - as long as you are not criticizing openly the king and his policies. It's another story if you are living long term in those countries - as citizens, political opponents or asylum seekers. It can be a complete different reality.

Many countries are OK when you're visiting, Rwanda has been in my holiday destination wishlist for a while!

It's when you're a citizen (or in the case of asylum seekers, citizen in waiting) of a perceived lower class with limited rights that there can be problems.

And even for an asylum seeker, there's a difference between choosing to seek refuge somewhere and being sent there with no choice.

People already go to Rwanda to seek asylum and it's partially based on their experiences that it's seen as unsafe. I'm sure if a country wanted to enter such an agreement to send asylum seekers to the UK and this was scrutinised by the courts, recent events would find that the UK was unsafe too.

 

[monga]

Rwanda as a tourist destination is fine - and from what I heard quite nice. Same for Morocco for instance - as long as you are not criticizing openly the king and his policies. It's another story if you are living long term in those countries - as citizens, political opponents or asylum seekers. It can be a complete different reality.

Isn’t that the same for many countries? If you’re intent on breaking the law you can expect repercussions, death in some cases.
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Refugees are already taken to Rwanda by NGO’s for processing, Arsenal football club are pushing the visit Rwanda message, if people go there to break the law on their own head be it.
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The migrants will never be stopped as the state doesn't want to stop them. The only way they will leave is when every city council in the country is bankrupt and the wait for public services are years long and they will start to leave and drain another country.

That’s what’s happening the length and breadth of Ireland , people’s tolerance is at an all time low because of economic migrants coming to sponge off the state, billions being lost in the tourism sector, whole towns being changed overnight, schools , accommodation and healthcare completely overwhelmed by the sheer numbers arriving, there’s even more arriving from UK since they’ve changed their policies on safe countries…..This is the outcome .

 

[Moth]

Narrative use is interesting there:
A lot nicer than whatever the hell the likes of Suella have been saying very recently. It's also a lot nicer than what they have been trying to achieve with Rwanda - including stopping people claiming asylum at all. Who is he trying to appeal to here? Is it being overly "nice" because of the recent deaths? (doubt it)

I don't think it's 'nice'. The only 'niceness' from Sunak here is to Meloni who seems to be offering him a way to cosy up to far-right rhetoric without the risks of using Braverman as his proxy. Sunak's talk about how a few tens of thousands of asylum seekers will 'overwhelm' the UK is classic 'blood and soil' ideology. Sunak is now only half a step away from Trump's overt fascism but he still has time ...

 

[Moley1]

Sunak is desperate to turn immigration into the main election issue to distract from his party’s many failings in other areas. Expect to see Farage reemerge again with Reform to make sure that happens. It is well down the list of major concerns for the British public but the right wing press are already working on changing that with constant headlines and stories about immigration.
If Labour were in power and had come up with this ridiculous Rwanda plan you wouldn’t hear the end of it in the right wing press. It will not work as a deterrent, it is not cost effective and it just won’t work on any level, but still they want us to talk about it as if it is going to take people’s attention away from the cost of living crisis.
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Isn’t that the same for many countries? If you’re intent on breaking the law you can expect repercussions, death in some cases.

It depends where and which laws you break though. If you are trying to escape a country with an appalling human rights record you probably don’t want to end up in a country that is not considered “safe” by top international lawyers.

 

[monga]

Sunak is desperate to turn immigration into the main election issue to distract from his party’s many failings in other areas. Expect to see Farage reemerge again with Reform to make sure that happens. It is well down the list of major concerns for the British public but the right wing press are already working on changing that with constant headlines and stories about immigration.
If Labour were in power and had come up with this ridiculous Rwanda plan you wouldn’t hear the end of it in the right wing press. It will not work as a deterrent, it is not cost effective and it just won’t work on any level, but still they want us to talk about it as if it is going to take people’s attention away from the cost of living crisis.
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It depends where and which laws you break though. If you are trying to escape a country with an appalling human rights record you probably don’t want to end up in a country that is not considered “safe” by top international lawyers.

Did they deem Rwanda unsafe? I thought it was the threat of return to their own countries from Rwanda was the problem?

 

[Moth]

'Breaking the law' in Rwanda apparently includes any criticism of the President or the government for which the punishment can be extra-judicial death. It also apparently includes being in the LGBTQ+ community where despite the having equality under the Rwandan Constitution you risk extra-judicial detention and abuse. The current UK travel advice states "... LGBT individuals can experience discrimination and abuse, including from local authorities". It should also not be forgotten that the reason the Supreme Court decided that Rwanda was not safe for asylum seekers was largely not because of what might happen to them if they 'broke the law' but because in Rwanda what constitutes 'the law' and how it is applied is at best disorganised and at worst corrupt. I realise that some people would be only too happy for the UK to follow other countries down the path of an authoritarian government deciding what is the law and how it should be applied without any checks and balances.

 

[monga]

There’s been LBTQ+ attacked , even killed in UK / Eire ,by people from countries that don’t agree with those practices.
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Be interesting to see what the next couple of years bring ? The Dublin riots have been big news in America, paramilitary groups from the north are apparently involved with southern far right groups, that’s practically unheard of when history has shown us how far apart these groups were ,but seem to be united on this issue…We’re moving into unknown territory and dangerous times if reports are true.

Sinn Fein fear for Dublin seats as anti-immigrant candidates emerge

archived 17 Dec 2023 00:44:01 UTC

archive.ph

 

[Moth]

There’s been LBTQ+ attacked , even killed in UK / Eire by people from countries that don’t agree with those practices.

Every country has it's bigoted and violent weirdos, don't they? However I don't think the UK or Eire authorities have a record of rounding up, arbitrarily detaining and abusing and beating members of the LGBTQ+ community - at least not yet. But this is what happened in Rwanda which led to the UK government warning people travelling to that country about it. Yet Rwanda is country whose constitution bars discrimination and supports a raft of international conventions and statements affirming LGBTQ+ rights. It's that disparity between what Rwanda says it will do, (whether in their own laws or 'treaties' that they sign with other countries) and what they actually do in practice the make it unsafe.

 

[monga]

Every country has it's bigoted and violent weirdos, don't they? However I don't think the UK or Eire authorities have a record of rounding up, arbitrarily detaining and abusing and beating members of the LGBTQ+ community - at least not yet. But this is what happened in Rwanda which led to the UK government warning people travelling to that country about it. Yet Rwanda is country whose constitution bars discrimination and supports a raft of international conventions and statements affirming LGBTQ+ rights. It's that disparity between what Rwanda says it will do, (whether in their own laws or 'treaties' that they sign with other countries) and what they actually do in practice the make it unsafe.

The point is more people with those views are arriving illegally into this country we have a duty of care to our own citizens and their hard fought battle to be recognised for who they are.

 

[Piff paff puff]

Isn’t that the same for many countries? If you’re intent on breaking the law you can expect repercussions, death in some cases.
---
Refugees are already taken to Rwanda by NGO’s for processing, Arsenal football club are pushing the visit Rwanda message, if people go there to break the law on their own head be it.
---

That’s what’s happening the length and breadth of Ireland , people’s tolerance is at an all time low because of economic migrants coming to sponge off the state, billions being lost in the tourism sector, whole towns being changed overnight, schools , accommodation and healthcare completely overwhelmed by the sheer numbers arriving, there’s even more arriving from UK since they’ve changed their policies on safe countries…..This is the outcome .View attachment 2635548

Vigilantes burning their country to stop this madness. When does it become a crisis? An emergency? I thought that might be it but it seems some authorities are STILL unwilling to to face the issue.
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Hmmmm..copied from MSN.com

Still say Rwanda isn't safe Sir Keir? Labour candidate sells CHILDREN's holidays to the very country party insists is too risky for illegal migrants
Story by Anna Mikhailova • 15h

• Sam Rushworth is standing to be MP of Bishop Auckland in County Durham
• The company offers a 'paradise package' charging £1,999 per person for 10 days

Labour has been accused of hypocrisy for selecting a candidate who runs a business organising children's holidays to Rwanda – while the party opposes Rishi Sunak's policy of sending illegal migrants there on the grounds it is unsafe.

 

[monga]

Vigilantes burning their country to stop this madness. When does it become a crisis? An emergency? I thought that might be it but it seems some authorities are STILL unwilling to to face the issue.

Unfortunately ,they’ll learn the hard way ! Once these groups take hold it’ll be carnage, I can assure you northern paramilitaries don’t fear gov ,infact the police service in the north are pretty much under their control as are gov institutions ….Here’s a little example for you…This message is for white citizens

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Police told the victims to reassure the perps this is the crazy society we live in .

Community leader and charity were let down by police – chief constabl…

archived 17 Dec 2023 13:32:54 UTC

archive.ph

 

[Piff paff puff]

Unfortunately ,they’ll learn the hard way ! Once these groups take hold it’ll be carnage, I can assure you northern paramilitaries don’t fear gov ,infact the police service in the north are pretty much under their control as are gov institutions ….Here’s a little example for you…This message is for white citizens
View attachment 2635706
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Police told the victims to reassure the perps this is the crazy society we live in .

Community leader and charity were let down by police – chief constable

Jon Boutcher was reacting after a BBC Spotlight programme around a spate of attacks on a multi cultural centre in south Belfast.

www.irishnews.com

Have the paramilitaries always been that bold? Are they threatening anyone that enters their areas? Are they anti state? That must be scary for others who live there or maybe not?

 

[monga]

Have the paramilitaries always been that bold? Are they threatening anyone that enters their areas? Are they anti state? That must be scary for others who live there or maybe not?

Yes of course, we keep to our own lanes here!
This is still very much a terrorist state, masked men sit in a courtroom to intimidate witnesses, surrounded by police, unhindered!..Nobody brave enough to approach them to ask them to leave…What hope would migrants have against these guys!

'Disbelief' at masked men inside Belfast courtroom - BBC News

Chris Heaton-Harris made his remarks as a senior judge ordered a review of the incident.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Blueblue123]

Why are people pretending not to know the difference between being a tourist and being a citizen of a country????